Race to Fusion

[Tom Hatfield]

I was just coming back to say I figured it out. Thanks anyway.

[fara]

the rules need to be accurate. make a non-save, non-reload category and a category with save builds. only the non-save,non-reload categories should be considered the real records. else it's too easy to build a fake run using multiple reload and the hics edited out.

also, the linux port of CSB should be equally admitted for runs and also it should be possible to submit avi files of demos played on the atari st while filming the atari monitor using a video camera.

[sucinum]

>>it should be possible to submit avi files of demos played on the atari st while filming the atari monitor using a video camera.

i think, we can decide this if anyone should try

[zoom]

i have an idea :
how about, at the end of the savegames from personal computers,
get a list of what hidden attributes have been used and how often.

not so special like how many fireballs and magic torches, how many swings and chops and climb downs, and warcries and vi potions ; but something more general.

There are the main classes Fighter ninja wizard priest and each is divided into 4 subcategories, hidden skills . Just show these hidden skills and the main skill and the steps walked and a monster toll as well as the levels of the characters.. i think that would be good, and maybe it is even easy to do..
For me, single player mode is far too difficult; but there should be a way of making these movies interesting, not only by a short duration. Maybe an extra race to fusion mod made with csbuild would be it....

[Gambit37]

I was just watching Pauls' record-breaking video on Youtube. It's completely misleading, because it's only 20 minutes of real-time and goes insanely fast. Why is it so fast? Speed-runs can only be viewed legitimately if they truly reflect the actual time spent, but these playbacks are way too fast and it's simply not possible to play the game like that.

I imagine CSBWin is doing something strange with timers/ticks to create playbacks this quick?

[Paul Stevens]

I imagine CSBWin is doing something strange with timers/ticks to create playbacks this quick?

Nothing that I know of. One-hundred percent certain
that it is nothing intentional. Perhaps the
Youtube encoding or playback?

It is certainly possible for the player to record
at low speed and playback at high speed.
(used to be called 'over-cranking') I don't
think there is any way to know this except to
ask the people who did the deed.

I'll record a twenty-minute session tonight and
keep a stopwatch on it. Then play it back and
see what happens. I'll report.

[Gambit37]

No need to record and time it -- you see very easily from the speed-run video that it's impossibly fast and no-one can actually play the game that fast.

I suspect you're right about the slow record versus fast playback. If that's the case, then the YouTube videos are very misleading (I did notice a few comments from people saying they couldn't play the game that fast and was he cheating)

[Gambit37]

Here's an example, speed run at 8 mins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBmRWMx47Yg&NR=1

The DM Encyclopedia says that the record is currently 10m 37secs. http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/856

[Paul Stevens]

The time we use for the competition is the
number of clock ticks divided by 6.

If you run the game at a very slow speed
then it certainly becomes easier to keep
up with the Gigglers. This may or may not
be called cheating. I will appoint myself
the final arbiter in this matter but am willing
to relinquish the post. My decision....play
the game at any speed you like. The best
time will be determined by the number of
clock ticks, just as before. You may play it
back at a fast rate to impress your friends.
This allows for technical skills to compete
with physical dexterity and eye-hand
coordination to some extent.
Those are the rules. (Subject to change
when everyone cries "foul".)

As for the YouTube video. Mr. Bracegirdle
did not choose to display the time at the
end of the video. Perhaps he can submit
the recording in order to claim the new record.

[Gambit37]

Right OK, I understand now. I know it's only a bit of fun, but it is a tad misleading.

Just to check, I screen-captured the record breaking 10mins 37 secs at normal gameplay speed with no extra ticks, and it's actually 13mins 48 secs. Still insanely impressive though!!!

[beowuuf]

Youtube cuts off anythign above 10 minutes for normal uploads, right?

[Gambit37]

15 mins these days. Probably was 10 mins when that speedrun was uploaded.

[Antman]

Hi there, been lurking a bit recently again.... I didn't upload that video but it is the record holding 10:37 video, it's run without extra ticks so it plays back slightly too fast, %20 it seems.

That is the speed it always plays back at without extra ticks. But with extra ticks the playback it too long, the real time the game was played in is somewhere in the middle. I didn't slow down the game while I was playing. I thought because the game's internal maximum speed is 6 moves per second, but with the boots of speed you can move faster, but it's an illusion. You move faster real time, but the game time increases to keep up with you!

So when these games are played back they're not truly acurate of the speed you actually played the game in as the recording gets played back at strict 6 moves per second, which is slower than you originally played. I think that's what's going on anyway... could you verify Paul?

I didn't play as fast as the recording without extra plays, and I didn't play as slow as the game played back with extra ticks. I think you can demonstrate the effect by starting a game and watching how fast the ticks are going by on the clock, then holding down the spin button, you spin faster than 6 times per second, and you can see the rate at which the ticks were ticking over increases to keep up, so if you recorded yourself doing this, when you play it back you'll spin either too fast with without extra ticks and too slow with them.

I would guess that the actually time I played the game in was around 9 minutes maybe, I think it's impossible to tell.... the ticks are the benchmark for records, but unfortunately they nullify the boots of speed and how fast you are at turning a bit.

[Jan]

I think I'll need more coffee to understand this. *runs into the kitchen*

[Paul Stevens]

could you verify Paul?

I doubt that you are correct.
The 1/6th second ticks are generated at
a **very** low level in the code and could
not possibly be aware of what is taking place
in the game.

But......Since you seem quite sure....I will
investigate. Stranger things have happened.

[Paul Stevens]

Investigation of 'real-time' speed versus 'in-game' speed.
I find some strange anomalies. I understand why you
thought the engine was adjusting its speed. It is. But
not because the code makes any adjustment. It must
be because of some external factor such as speed of
updating the display.....or ????????? I don't know yet.
;-~

[Antman]

Sorry for that original post and thanks to whoever tidied it up for me! It's hard to explain exactly what I meant. I shall endeavor to format my paragraphs better from now on...

Yes I didn't think any specific part of the game's actual code was faster internally, just that the entire game would speed up, if that makes sense. Like playing an old DOS game on a new computer which runs ridiculously fast. The way it currently works feels good though, if the game were reduced to playing at the speed that extra ticks plays back, it would be painful. I also *think* that the game worked the same way on the amiga when I used to play it all those years ago... No way to be certain of that though.

[PaulH]

Looking at the vid in youtube, some seems to play a lot faster, other bits about the same 'speed' I remember playing it at.

[Selie]

It's been approximately a bazillion years since I last posted on this forum, but somebody got me started talking about Dungeon Master today and that led me back here (since he was like "what? speed runs in 15 minutes? you've got to be joking." and I had to prove him wrong by linking to your accomplishments).

I just have to say that I am super excited to see that you're all still here being awesome and speedrunning with ludicrously short records. Holy crap. 10 minutes?

(Sorry if I'm reviving an old thread. It's just - wow.)

[beowuuf]

Wow, nice to see some old faces making their way back here! Welcome back

Yup, speed runs are still just as impressive, if not more so. Oh, and in a few week's time there seems to be a real spiritual sequal to DM called Legend of Grimlock, to be released on Steam. In case you fancy playing something like DM again too!

[Selie]

Yes! Actually, BloodFromStone and I got married last fall. I was looking through my old posts just now and saw one he made about my 21st birthday. It has been a while, hasn't it? I hope you're all doing well.

I think Legend of Grimlock is what brought DM up in conversation. I'm definitely going to look into it, though I don't have a computer that can play new games, so I will most likely be living vicariously through other people.

[beowuuf]

That's cool, congratulations! I remember BFS too Are you still writing?


And yeah, Grinlock should be cool. There was a video graphics tester available to download recently through their blog. You could check to see if your comp could handle it.

[Ameena]

It's Grimrock, not Grimlock .
Hey, wb Selie . I remember you - I remember you were one of hte ones I did a joke avatar for, being chased by all the zillions of Purple Worms that ganked you repeatedly in DM .

[beowuuf]

Wow. I've been misreading it all this time That;s a worry! Also it makes more sense. Good thing I abbreviated it in Petri's rank!

[Selie]

Haha! You remember me, too, Ameena?

Yes, I am still writing. We both are. I've actually had two stories published in the past year too (it's been a big year for me!) and fingers crossed that more will follow. BFS has started taking his writing very seriously so we are hoping he'll get published soon too.

Purple Worms are scary. I don't remember what floor that is with the horrifying Purple Worm generator - you know the one I'm talking about - but that's totally not my fault.

[beowuuf]

Level 4 if you count the HoC as level 1. And yes, I remember you being scared of the worms and Ameena's joke avatar version of your own one, looking scared! Fun times


Good luck to the both of you with writing then - great you've managed to get some recognition and success!

[Jan]

LOL. I'm confused. So is it

Grimlock

or

Grimrock

or even

Grinlock

?

(the latest would make some sense if Mophus is the main character)

Personally, as an English non-native speaker, I must say that 'Grimlock' is the easiest one to pronunciate - not that I would be pronunciating it too often, of course.

Anyway, I'm derailing an already derailed conversation.

[Ameena]

Lol, it's "Legend of Grimrock" in full - Wuffy is just bad at typing, but we already knew that .

[Trantor]

Wow, welcome back Selie! I do remember you and your ex-boyfriend-turned-husband very well! Good to see that DM never seems to let people go.

[Antman]

More than 15 years of planning, preparation, practice and perseverance later... (lol), I finished DM in 28 minutes 23 seconds (10217 ticks).

I took slightly different approach using four resurrected characters and used a couple of new tricks, one to get passed the worms on level 4 faster and one to get the Zokathra. It took many, many attempts as DM has many places where monsters can wander into and block you. This was a pretty clean run, thieves caused some grief on the scorpion level and the materializers were annoying but it was mostly clean sailing. I don't think I'd try to beat it without a new approach to save some time somewhere, maybe a different set of characters could be more successful. I recorded this game with 'extra ticks' off, having extra ticks on seems to make the game a bit too fast on my current PC.

I sent it to Paul S for verification and hopefully he'll be kind enough to upload it. Not sure if PaulH is still active here, it would be great to hear his thoughts, see if he has any further tricks or improvements.

Anyway, I hope anyone here can view and enjoy the recording, thanks!