Race to Fusion

[Paul Stevens]

Crashes for me, too. Early in level 1 while fetching first keys.

[Antman]

Darn, I'm very sorry about that.

I watched it through many times without issue but after downloading and attempting to watch it I also saw crashes. Very strange. Everything should be completely deterministic as far as I'm aware. It's certainly the annotations as removing the annotation file fixed the issue. After a while I couldn't reproduce the issue either and it didn't occur in the downloaded version. Not sure what could be causing it but will take a look this evening.

[Paul Stevens]

Local variables in a re-entrant function? Nasty stuff.

[Antman]

Tricky indeed. Can't say for certain what the cause was, or that it's fixed, but I haven't been able to make it crash so far. My guess is the hacky way I was dealing with carriage returns and line breaks...

Here's the new link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kH0jUz ... sp=sharing (note I see a spinner when accessing the link but there's a download button top right).

Fingers crossed.

I hope you enjoy it!

[Paul Stevens]

I played it through to the finish without any errors.
Does the debug version work? If so, I would say that
you got it right.

[jayrshaw]

Thanks, Antman! My wife and I were able to watch the full playthrough with commentary this afternoon. It was really funny (especially the bit where you had the dead characters keep talking as ghosts)!


--Jay

[PaulH]

I managed a modest solo run of 33.8 mins!

Nice, that didn't take long! I haven't started trying any solo runs, but I think I'll give it a go.

I need to try and decide on speed settings as seems to run quick on my new computer but might just be imagining it.

I felt it was faster on my PC with Extra Ticks enabled than it used to be on my old PC, so I played with extra ticks off. If you enter the dungeon and hold down turn for a full minute, how many ticks do you get? With extra ticks on I get ~900, but ~250 if just standing still. With extra ticks off I get ~250 for both.

I'll experiment

[Antman]

@Jayrshaw: I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Does the debug version work?

Actually with the debug version as soon as I launched CSBWin I immediately saw "Memory destruction" "Disaster" dialogs which I assumed were fairly fatal (before I made any changes). Commenting out the dialog CSBWin appeared to launch correctly and was able to run the playback without (visible) issues. Having a small look it looks like the end marker 0xfdfdfdfd is not where it's expected after the first allocation.

[Paul Stevens]

Seems as if you have gone past the end of allocated memory. Whatever
the case, if the debug version does not work then you have a problem
that should be fixed.

If you like, send the changes to me. I have a lot of experience
fixing CSBwin bugs. That's why the debug checks were implemented!

[Antman]

I had a play around to see if I could discover anything myself. It looked like things were going astray line 2312 CSBUI.cpp (end = current + *(ui32 *)(current-12);), the size it needed to read (for the offset) was actually a byte earlier, so replacing 12 with 16 fixed the issue. I see that's actually done in the WIN98 block there. I'm guessing that at that offset the size of the allocation is stored in some kind of allocation pre-header in debug? I couldn't find documentation on such a header and if it changes (eg. in different windows/visual studio versions?) only the "no man's land" 0xfdfdfdfd buffers. I was using Visual Studio 2013 on Windows 10.

Gone off topic but interesting stuff. I'll send you the Recording.cpp where I made changes regardless. Out of interest, is the code in a repo somewhere? I think I got that version from your site a while back.

[Antman]

I shaved a couple of minutes of the DM record to 26 minutes 15 seconds, you can find the recording here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Lgqf-f ... Nk3qQGuQ2O. Also sent it to Paul for verification.

I used a new tactic for the zokathra and a new tactic for getting the key of B on the scorpion level. Not a perfect run though, the worms were a pain, the rusters and rats were a pain, Chaos and his demons nearly took me out at the end. I also cast a fireball on level 3 I didn't mean to which threw things off a bit. The scorpion, wasp and knight levels went smoothly though. I think sub 25 minutes is possible with a lot of luck. The recording took many many attempts so I don't think I'll try and beat it. Might try a 4 party team in CSB though...

Hope someone out there enjoys the recording!

[Paul Stevens]

I have already enjoyed it!

I'll get around to posting it on dianneandpaul.net later
today (Wednesday). Hopefully.

[Paul Stevens]

I put it at:

http://dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/Competi ... M26m15s.7z

I included a video. I found several places where I could not see
what happened. The video allowed me to slow down, back up, and
examine the game one frame at a time.

[Antman]

Thanks! The video is useful, there didn't seem to be sound though?

I guess PaulH will take a look when gets the chance, he mentioned some potential improvements and it would be interesting to know if they're still applicable.

[PaulH]

I shall have a look .

Not played for a while as been so busy at work, but have just got the dreaded shingles so will be off for a bit.

[Paul Stevens]

No sound? That is curious but true.
I will try again.

[Paul Stevens]

I have posted a new copy with sound. No idea what went wrong the first time.

http://dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/Competi ... M26m15s.7z

[Antman]

Thanks it worked well. It's useful for estimating how much savings can be made when things go wrong.

What tool are you using to create the videos out of interest?

[Paul Stevens]

Tool? Hmmmmm.

Well, I used 'Debut Video Capture' to record the game from the screen/speakers.
Then I used 'Handbrake' to compress the resulting 6 GigaByte Hufyuv/avi file to
about 37 MegaByte h.265/MP4. Both are free, a definite plus for me.

There are a dozen other tools that would do either of the two steps and probably
a few that would do it in one step. Handbrake allows me to precisely crop the
video in both space and time as it performs the compression.

[PaulH]

I've watched the latest video and cap is well and truly doffed. Again, a mix of great tactics, speed and luck - and there are definitely places were you could have been luckier too. The dance with the devils nearly got you and also been fireballed in the cavern

Tactics wise I'm somewhat torn on the best route. I still think I can shave considerable time off a solo run, but how much exactly I'm not sure. I just had a clean run through to the worm level and was on par with your time (the creature cavern is the way forward I think, the chambers of the guardian way is too clumsy) - using just Hissssa, but his stamina drain is just woeful and the constant need to sleep was a killer. I still even after all these years do not understand the stamina drain! Stamm is king.

The readme was most interesting. Telefragging the skeletons on the scorpion level is something I've toyed with in the past but had mixed results. I'm tempted to try the worm telefrag, but ropefree. And heal the character - I'm not convinced Leyla can cut it solo. Need to try a few lines here.

I definitely need to work on move efficiency, I've lost a bit of my coordination over the years lol. I'm consistently slower with 'extra ticks' off. The game seems to run a little better for me with it left 'on' and the engine moved to slow. Forward and lateral movement feel similar, but the turn is quicker and just seems to flow better for me with less head banging.

I've tried a few different characters tonight, just to test out stamina and magic and have had mixed results.But I'll keep playing!

Congratulations again, most impressive

[PaulH]

Had some promising results! In order to test I created a super character in the HOC and experimented. I managed an 18 minute game, albeit I blasted most things out of the way. But it's given me a few ideas and where to optimise.

[Antman]

Those demons, the recording would have been 15 seconds faster if they hadn't blocked me and saved chaos at the last moment. Good bodyguards I guess . Also I don't really understand when and where chaos can teleport, but that saved him a second time.

Your solo run with Stamm is really very good, I haven't tried a solo run yet. I feel it may be harder to beat that than getting another 4 champion record. Leyla could be an option using the rope, there seems to be a sweet spot with timing for telefragging the worms but I think luck still plays a large part. Also with telefragging the skeletons reduces dependency on Stamm. I found that monsters can sometimes move instantly after teleporting which is why I didn't immediately jump in after them but doubled back to ensure they are standing on the right square before getting them.

Yes I left a bunch of my notes in the readme, they show how much I'd forgotten from last time I tried to speedrun DM!

For move coordination, I think there can actually be a significant gain configuring more hotkeys. I watched a recording by rain' and he manipulated items insanely fast so I stole the config he was using. The problem is it takes more coordination and practice to get it going. They can be configured for every item/switch/inventory space in the game so you could potentially play with just the keyboard and no mouse, but that seems a bit too tricky. Also each mouse click counts as two moves (button down + button up) and key presses are one so it would definitely save moves for any minimal moves attempts.

Hmmm a super character blasting through the dungeon sounds cathartic, might give it a whirl

[PaulH]

I'll have to look into the hotkeys. So far I just use the numeric pad for movement, and the mouse for everything else. I often 'miss' with my mouse click which obviously wastes time, for example, when trying to pick up objects.

My understanding with Chaos is that when he (I'm assuming male here!) is in a position where cannot directly move to an empty adjacent tile under his own volition, he will teleport instead. And a fluxcage counts as a blocked tile. There may be caveats to this.

I also believe that the "fuse" option forces him to move to an adjacent tile (and not teleport). If he is in a position where this is impossible the game is won.

[Antman]

Yes I do the same with the numpad keys and mouse, so I'm trying to use four new keys for picking up items in front of the party. My brain is struggling to cope though...

Chaos' teleporting seems to be limited to 1 or 2 squares too, and only in some directions, maybe only backwards. I've never seen him teleport through the party.

[Paul Stevens]

My memory tells me that Chaos can jump two squares in any of the
four cardinal directions no matter what is between (except fluxcages).