Data File Format

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:24 pm

I looked at one of the data files (CSB.rtc, in particular) and
it would appear at first glance that it has been encrypted.

A first analysis indicates some sort of stream cipher has been
applied to the file. Does anyone know how to remove this
layer of encryption? Would it be helpful to anyone if we could
figure out how to decipher these files? I doubt it will be easy.

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:31 pm

You do realise that .RTC files are simply compiled and compressed .TXT files?

You could ask George.... although I doubt he'd want to give it away...

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:36 pm

I remember asking GG a while ago about what goes in there, Im pretty sure he said that graphics are packed into this file, so you could be looking at packed images that make it look like encryption. Not too sure.

Personally Im happy with exporting TXT files that are compiled into RTC files but If you did manage to decipher them I would be interested in teh file format. Mainly out of curiosity and the possibility of writing the file directly rather than going through the TXT file approach.

It doesnt surprise me that they are encrypted TBH.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:46 pm

Gambit says

You could ask George

.

Hmmm. I just assumed that anyone who went to all
that trouble to hide something would not willingly
open it to our view. But it would save a lot of work. So:

George: What can you do for us? Can you describe the
encryption algorithm? Provide a decryption program?
What can you tell us of the format of the files; in particular
the .rtc and the .sav files?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:06 pm

But it would save a lot of work

A lot of what work? What's your reasoning for wanting to know? Perhaps you haven't been following the development of RTC?

.RTC files are compiled versions of the TXT files used to generate dungeons. If the designer has specified new sounds and graphics, these are also compiled into the file. They use George's own compression algorithm -- not sure if they are encrypted or not.

.SAV files are obviously save games -- there have been some discussions about modifying these but George has already said that he doesn't want to allow that to prevent cheating.

To play a save game, you also need the associated RTC file.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:23 pm

Gambit says:

What's your reasoning for wanting to know? Perhaps you haven't been following the development of RTC?

My reason? I don't want to know. That's why I asked if
anyone would find it useful. I looked at the files
just out of curiosity. I thought maybe someone would
like to see what is in the files, just as they have liked to
look into the old FTL files......to cheat.

I think I have followed RTC as long as any of you. Many
years ago I was playtesting RTC when the first level of DM
was being developed. I even sent George $50 as a kind
of 'Shareware' payment for RTC and DMute.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:35 pm

Aah, I see! It sounded as if you were trying to decode them to work out how they were organised. I didn't see the point of that considering that the TXT files are all available.

I think it would be useful to be able to edit savegames for playtesting. There's a thread about that here if you missed it:

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=23254

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:06 pm

just a thought.. but since GG has directly opposed the idea of allowing people to edit save files and compiled files. Also keeping in mind that he was none too keen on the idea of sharing how they were compressed either.. would that not indicate he might get a little miffed with you poking around in there?

There's no way of really stopping you but.. just seems to me a little disrespectfull.

on the other hand GG is one of the many who went through much the same effort to break apart the orriginal DM in order to edit it. The only difference I see here is that GG has expressed a desire to not have people poking around in the files.. Where as my interpretation of the files that wayne compressed were done so because of disk space and not to keep people out..

then again perhaps George would not mind if you went through the amount of effort required to get in there in the first place. I've heard others(programmers in reffrence to their own code) say.. well if you worked that hard to get in there in the first place, you deserve the spoils it affords you. Only George can say for sure.. I personaly would wait for his blessing on such a venture.

I'd hate for bad blood to start flowing and have George pack up and go due to someone not having concideration of his feelings in this manner.

moo

TheMormegil · Post by **TheMormegil** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:58 pm

Personally I don't think I would have much use for a savegame editing capabillity, but I think it would only add enjoyment for people.

However what I would be very interested in is some tool to examine/alter/add to the .dat files.
The main application of this for me would be for greater flexibility in creating new items.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:24 am

To add my perspective in, the *.rtc and *.sav formats are purely there to stop idle poking about with the dungeons. They allow designers to create a dungeon, and not immediately give up the secrets of their traps to players and so maintain the suspense of playing. Peronally I think that most of the fun of DM was in the exploring and making of maps as I went along - to have easy access to them is too much of an incentive to have a look and spoil the fun; almost a dis-incentive to designing a new dungeon. On the flip side the text format is there precisely for distribution so people can see how things are done - it's therefore the dungeon creators descision who gets to view the dungeon, and not the players one.

Having said that, I certainly subscribe to the if you can crack it, go for it theory expressed above. I had great fun over many years of effort working out the dungeon format for DM - I, no doubt like many other people here, love a challenge, and I'm sure that within time someone will work it out. I certainly won't be offended by it - more likely to be impressed and have great respect for them actually :-)

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:52 am

Maybe there is an "in-between"-state. One possibility would be building in a password for each dungeon that only the designer knows, allowing him to give it only if he or she wishes (or has been proven that the player already fairly bested his/her dungeon) and enable the editor to read a dungeon/save file after supplying said password.

Regards, PitD

Post by **Lunever** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:22 pm

I'd also opt for the password option.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Sun May 15, 2005 6:12 pm

me too