Dungeon Master Forum

Off topic comments moved from this thread

Asking for help here might have yielded better results if you hadn't come wading in threatening legal action last year...

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 6505#26505

Yeah what he said. You dummy

I am not directly involved, but I do not think that sbovis had really indended to take legal steps, I think he (or the other people/Majestic Studios) were merely enraged about the use of their graphics (however small) and not having being told in the first place.
-->He even asked, if madmunky wanted to join their project!!! And apparently they were using alien graphics on their own.
Now what should one say to that.Many people are not glad about it.

We know now that you may not use alien graphics without asking beforehand or giving credit.

Cowsmanaut had once pointed to a copyright threat, where you could read all about copyright, what types there are in which timeperiods and in which cases you could possibly protect your own "works".(although there is still a need to clarify in respect to dm and or clones, fact is there is a dm-copyright.)


Madmunky and sbovis? Are you forgiving each other/Statement?

Many people on this forum want to play dmclones :`)

Maybe he treats the people working for him the same way.. Maybe that's the reason for his lead programmer to run as hell ...

Do u realy think that this is necessary? We are not a small kids here

Martin

It was foolish to propose sth. like that, I did not intend to meddle in the affair.
Just thought give it a try, maybe it is not so bad and all. trash it.

Please be clearer -- these last two messages don't make a lot of sense.

While it would be nice to clear the air and know the resolution of the issue, I personally would prefer to see this clone thread kept free of discussions not directly related to it, and not rehashing past issues unless it is a problem for either of the two directly involved (steve bovis and madmunkey).

As far as im aware, we are fine with each other. I admit Dungeon Maker used part of a graphic which we shouldnt have no matter how long we used it for. As for the offer of working together on Dungeon Master 3D i dont know who told u that. Anyways Dungeon Maker and Dungeon Master 3D dont have anythink in comman any more other than the fact they are both inspired by Dungeon Master the orginal game.

I think the thing which made most people mad wasnt the fact we used a graphic but they way they said people wernt allowed to use the ideas which where in the orignal Dungeon Master like the Invent layout.

As for anythink think else i dont have a problem with Dungeon Master 3D or the makers, best of luck to them on there project.

beowuuf wrote:While it would be nice to clear the air and know the resolution of the issue, I personally would prefer to see this clone thread kept free of discussions not directly related to it, and not rehashing past issues unless it is a problem for either of the two directly involved (steve bovis and madmunkey).

Agreed, but what kind of picture shall one have of somebody making a big deal about some graphics lend from his site with kind of a message:
"Hey come on, you're doomed, but I'll forget it if you work for me??

And then after some time, when the air is clean again saying "Do as if nothing happened, now I am am looking for somebody the friendly way.

What kind of behaviour is this??

Maybe I am wrong, but the people here contributing to the site or the community itself do this for fun and not to earn money. Surely this is no apologize for breaking copyright rules, but I think in this case it is easy to talk in an civilized tone, because there is no risk of heavy financial damage.

I personally don't like people making an elephant out of a mice and on the other hand coming back and doing as nothing has happened, asking for help.

Looks like I am also pushing this thing up a bit.... , especially because I am not involved directly, but it reminds me about people I met in the past.. Not the best memories although...

Last but not least:

sbovis if I have the wrong picture about you I have to apologize, but maybe you learn for the future that friendlyness is more powerful and longer lasting than negative pressure in any form.
c-u all and keep

MadMunky wrote:As for the offer of working together on Dungeon Master 3D i dont know who told u that.

MadMunky:

Here is the body of a message from the thread pointed to by gambits link above:

Hi MAD MONKEY and the rest of the forum, I see by your screenshots that you have ripped them from my site. All artwork is copyright material of MAJESTIC STUDIOS and as so you are in danger of being taken to court for copyright theft. I therefore advise you to refraim from using the content and destroy all art work assigned to DUNGEON MASTER 3D.

That said I can see by your screen shots that you are doing well, are you a programmer, game desiner etc, if so do you wish to work on DUNGEON MASTER 3D??

Heed the warning.

Regards

Steve Bovis - DIRECTOR MAJESTIC STUDIOS

For all at the forum here is my link so you can see what MAD MONKEY has ripped off -
http://www.geocities.com/stevebovis/Dun ... er_3D.html
_________________

Only for information...

Oh right is was proberly only seeing the copyright part and didnt read about the other offer

Anyways i think its better having the two different projects as DM3D looks more like a quake'ish style Dungeon Master game where as Dungeon Maker is more of a update of all the old RPG games like DM and Bloodwych with the best ideas taken from each and built in to one game :p or at least that was the plan

As far as I am concerned he asked for somehting in a stupid way, and then backed it up in an even more stupid way. That said, what he didn't do was spam the board with more comments when the rest of the forum posted. And Madmunky did use a small piece of artwork as a placeholder.

Everyone who was around will already have opinions from then, and anyone new should be free to make their own without scrolling through a rehash, especially if we are commentign or defending positions that the original pepople are chossing to put aside or ignore.

I hope no one minds me splitting the thread, although it will still be referenced in the original

beowuuf wrote: I hope no one minds me splitting the thread, although it will still be referenced in the original

beowuuf:
Excuse me, but what we did in the past make us to what we are now..
In this sense I would find that at least the information about sbovis' past in this forum is quite useful for someone who may want to join his development team. Therefore, in my opinion at least gambits message seems to be useful information of the main thread.
The other comments (especially mine) are personal and I have no problem with them being removed from the original thread...

MadMunky:

Looking at the screenshots of DM3D I find the textures and the scenery extremely looking like Rune, or what I saw in a demo of a GPL 3D engine.

But what are we talking about, Lava looks like Lava and walls like walls

Bye

Everyone has the ability to grow beyond bad habits or questionable moral decisions. Sbovis made a bad call. I called him on it and that's all.

What really caused the issue was not that he was complaining about Madmonkey using his graphics.. as that would be something I would talk to him about were he to use something I didn't authorize. However, what Sbovis did was threaten him with legal action over things that were not directly within copyright, and not only that but rather than pay any attention to what was going on and simply ask politely he just bulldozed in and demanded like king ruler of all. Then turns and offers him a spot on his team.. presumably to show there are no hard feelings?

Anyway, what I'm saying is he took a valid complaint and blew it out of proportion and simply handled it badly.. this does not make him evil.. nor does it outright make him an @-hole. I think repeated retaliation over something like this is unrequired and the idea of condemning him for good over it is also poor judgement, for one comment does not define a personality.

moo

Hi all,
Firstly I wish to apologise to everyone regarding the Copyright issue, I think it was taken too seriously, I was only stating of my dissapointment after joining the forum and talking to some of you about DM3D and Dungeon Maker, that my return was my graphics (not the position or game mechanics of them) being used on another site without even a message to say if they could.

For example the positioning graphic of the 4 team members, is from the original DM but the graphic of which it is made up of is not, that was created by me, based on the original idea using poser 5 and lighting to determine the colour of the 4 instead of using colour of what they were wearing.
(if you take the original graphic and compare it you will get what I mean)

This by the way is also the reason why the web site has not been updated because of the fear that someone would use the graphics without asking.

I now know they were for testing purposes only and have no problem with that, Christ! I would not of cared if they wanted to use them if only they had asked. I am all for the underground codeing scene and the bedroom coder and do beleive that computer game design would not be where it is today without us.

Also someone mentioned the textures used on the site, they are not RUNE but come from a public site:
http://www.davegh.com/blade/davegh.htm
(hope this helps some of you)

As for MADMUNKY we have never said a crossed word to each other, on the contary, we have both acknowledged each others work, I hope Dungeon Maker (which looks great!) is very well received as a lot of work has gone into it (belive me, I know from a development point of view)

Also I asked if anyone would like to work on DM3D, because at the time I would of preferred people being productive rather than obstructive.

Secondly I wish to apologise to the Administrator of this forum, for all the commotion my initial post caused.

Best regards


Steve


FORGET REALITY SURRENDER TO YOUR DARKEST DREAMS

Dear Steve,

as we in germany say "The tone makes the music... (wordly translated, but mabe you get it)" And this new tone sounds much better than your first attempts...Seems you are able to learn at least..

Last but not least a small hint:

If you are looking for development help, you should give some more information like:
- What Operating System is targeted and what programming language is used.
- What special skills are needed (3D programming, AI, User Interface, Tools...)
- How much of the work has been done yet, and how much is left
- What kind of 3D engine you use (open source, or proprietary)
- How much time one has to (or should) spent in a week for it...
- What way the end product will be licenced and distributed (commercial use, GPL, Freeware).

This information will save a lot of your (and our) time reading / writing the same eMails in which this kind of information is requested or given..

Dear Toolman,
I see by your reply that all you wish to do is be patronising and state the obvious.

Forget I even asked if anyone would be interested on DM3D, if this is the comment I will receive.

No wonder your a NOVICE eh?


Regards


Steve

sbovis wrote:Forget I even asked if anyone would be interested on DM3D, if this is the comment I will receive.

Forgotten. You sound like a frustrated teenager, impossible to work with. You really have a need to learn some communication skills.

I think this is getting out of hand, I think this thread should be locked so no more bitching can be done (Anyone would think we are girls in here!), all currently replys to sbovis first thread should be delete and he can do a post with more details on what he is looking for.

Toolman: Please just drop it now, theres not need for anymore argument, you are intitled to your opinion.

Sbovis: Best of luck on the project and i hope you can do a release soon also, we are working hard on a DM release , please update your first thread with more details in what your looking for.

Hope everyone is happy with this.