Need computer tech help badly (or I might kill myself)

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:55 pm

Remember I got myself a new computer ? Well it's not working ! I need some help pretty badly. Let me get into details :

My setup is :

ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard
Pentium IV 3.00 GHz Prescott processor
2x 512 Mb RAM
Seagate Barracuda 160 Gb SATA Hard Drive
Plextor PX716A DVD burner (IDE)
ATI Radeon 9600 XT graphics adapter
(external 250 Gb Hard Drive through USB 2.0)

I have installed Windows XP slipstreamed with Service Pack 2. I have NO internet connection, so no other Windows updates outside SP2.

My problems :
1. System freezes unpredictably. How do you like that ? Sometimes it goes on for hours, sometimes not. No error message, just everything frozen, mouse doesn't move, hell even the keyboard's "Num lock" diod can't be switched off anymore. Ctrl Alt Del doesn't work, the only solution is a hard reset.
I have tried turning off graphic acceleration, I have tried disabling my built-in Audio device (played DM without sound for quite some time

), to no result.
Which brings me to problem number 2 :
2. After resetting, sometimes my HD would not be detected, so the computer would not boot at all ! It seems this happened most frequently when my USB external HD was connected when the freeze occurred (but maybe I'm just tripping here).
I MAY have solved this problem by flashing my mainboard's BIOS to the latest version, featuring a "Patch for SATA HDD detection error". With my updated BIOS, I did not encounter this error... until today.
3. Finally, something that could be very misleading : when I inserted an Audio CD in my optical drive, the system REBOOTED ! After reboot, the CD played fine in Win Media Player 10 (haven't even finished installing all my software so using this for now). The guilty CD was "Original Pirate Material" by The Streets (damn good by the way). I am not sure this is too great a problem, I have tried another Audio CD and it didn't cause any trouble. Miught be connected to some Audio CD protection, although I checked the CD cover and found no mention of any kind.

This is where I am : this morning I tried another Audio CD and it played fine. I tried a DVD, played fine but the system froze !

Upon resetting, the bootup was extremely slow. Having waited a minute or two and still stuck in front of a black screen with the little white dot blinking in the top left corner, I reset again.
Tried to enter BIOS setup, worked but was very slow.
Rebooted, then my HD was NOT DETECTED !!!!

What is going on ?

I tried to make a virus scan, but the system froze during the scan !!!!

What can I do ? Does this seem to be a RAM issue ? How do I know ?

Thank you for any help, I'm really on the brink of losing it...

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:06 pm

Could be a problem of connection between the motherboard and a component like RAM or video card.
Check if they are inserted correctly in their slots, if they are not loose.

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:12 pm

Merci for the fast answer Zyx.

Already checked all hardware connections. Will check them once again, but the other big problem I have is my computer is in Paris, and my internet access computer is in Versailles

Any other thoughts ? I'm really starting to think it's a case of shitty RAM (why didn't I buy Samsung chipset ??? *bangs head against wall*)

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:28 pm

When everything else failed, read the manual.
(sorry, old joke)

If it's not the connections, it's probably a defectuous component.
Maybe you have heating problems, or maybe it is really build badly.

Did you try to run a minimal config such as 512Mb of RAM and no video card? (assuming you have a built-in video proc). If it fails try the other RAM.
If it keeps failing then the problems resides probably in the motherboard.

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:33 pm

Haven't tried this yet. Thanks for the advice. My mainboard doesn't have built-in video, but I'll try the RAM thing.

Anyway, if anybody reads this and has any thoughts please go ahead.

I'd really be interested in having your take on that strange "Audio CD reboots the system" thing.

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:56 pm

Putting the audio CD probably triggered the autorun and called the appropriate software. If you have a memory problem, your pc may have stumbled upon the faulty zone of your RAM, thus resetting or freezing. Just a theory anyway.
If somebody knows I'm muttering nonsense and making a fool of myself, please stop me.

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:11 pm

Right, but it's an Audio CD, so there shouldn't be any autorun except for that pathetic XP autorun feature. Unless it's copy protected and the protection has some kind of autorun to "install itself" ?
Anyway your theory makes sense since the freezing seems completely random (did happen twice with the same CD though).

Do you know any site listing all copy protected Audio CDs ? Tried RIAA radar but it doesn't seem to list protections, just labels...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:23 pm

I once had a similar problem when I bought a P1 with 166 MHz years ago. Sometimes, it would just freeze or run extremely slowly for no apparent reason, though sometimes it would be alright for hours. It turned out that the RAM was broken, so I suspect this is the case with your machine as well. I suggest using only one of the RAMs, like Zyx already said. Good luck!

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:37 pm

OK, thank you both for your advice. I'll try this and keep you posted.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:44 pm

Test the ram. Get memtest86.....create a boot floppy....then
you can test the ram without any operating system.

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:50 pm

Thanks Paul, I had never heard of this Memtest86. Will do so !
Well I guess I'm not going to kill myself then

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:16 pm

The idea that it's not detecting your hard drive makes me wonder if it's not something related to that. Since that could also freeze your computer. Possibilities is that you have a bad cable, a bad HD, or a bad Motherboard. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.

I have had to return items before that were new and just were faulty. One was a brand new HD and it would go for a while and then just get insanely slow. I just purchased a new digital watch a few months ago.. it loses 1 min every 4 days. so I have to keep fixing the time .

This is why it's good to have spare parts around...

So if you have a spare HD and or Cable.. I would check the cable first. Then check the HD. if it's not that.. and not the ram.. and not the video card.. well.. it's probably the motherboard.

I managed to make a small crack ina motherboard once.. trying to put in the ram. it was a tight fit and I pressed a little too hard to get it to click in I guess. So much for that MoBo

Also, random powerdowns. Where it's running for a moment and then just powers off. then sometimes won't reboot.. then it will run for a moment and power off. If this ever happens. It's usually part of the motherboard touching the case. This causes it to double ground itself. This is where you stick in some more cardboard washers between the case and the motherboard.

moo

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:28 pm

maybe it´s the HD-controller on the motherboard. check the BIOS settings(autodetect HD, etc).
It´s most probably one of your components, though.
If all fails:
You could bring your pc back to where you bought it, but if you bought it over internet, this won´t be easy/fast; and most retailers want payment for checking components although you have guarantee on it!.
Best thing would be, ask s.o. you know who is good at computers to take a look at it. Good thing would be to have a second computer and change graphics card, ram, and hard disk, to see if they work on the other mainboard.(check every component) test the cable, but i think this should be detected automatically if it is broken).But this could be not possible.

You can go to your retailer and tell him: the motherboard is not working, give me another. My computer crashes. They should give you a new one, and test it themselves, maybe. The worst thing could be that they tell you it isn´t broken, which is rather unlikely. And somethings broken, so you are not to blame to bring it to them!

Anyway, good luck.

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:42 pm

Some time ago I had a similar problem. I checked all elements - memory, video card, etc. and they worked perfectly on another computer. Then I discovered that the computer power point was just too week to provide electricity to all devices, especially when they were working simultaneously (two HDD + CD Recorder). The most critical moment was when I put a CD into CD player (starting engine takes more power for a while) or when the second HDD was activated. The problem disappear when I bought a new 300W power point (the previous was 250W).

You can disconnect your CD Burner or another device and check how the system will behave. If freezes cease then you should mount a stronger power.

Pedro

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:32 pm

Thanks everybody for you input.

Zooom : I AM good with computers !!!

At least I thought I was... This is just too much for me. Problem is, I bought it over the internet to a very bad store (waited for ages, had to bring back my first mainboard, waited ages again...).

Anyway, I ran Memtest-86 as Paul suggested. First pass returned 796 errors, and a second pass returned over 7,700 !!!! Made me wonder if these were not false positives... This morning I took out one of the RAM sticks and retested the memory : only one error in one pass (is one error bad or can it be tolerated ?). Haven't had the time to run more passes, but what do you think Paul ? Sounds like I took out the bad RAM doesn't it ? I will go through more testing today (try to run Windows, try playing that Streets CD, test the other RAM stick) and let you know.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:56 pm

One error is too many for me. These computers are
supposed to work right every time. Otherwise you will
get random crashes. If the memory won't work then
it won't help to have everthing else perfect.

Be sure to run ALL the test, not just the basic ones.
'C' for configure....then select tests; then select all.
The extra tests run for many hours but are more
likely to discover problems.

On two occasions I had two different machines that would
crash every few days. I ran memtest86 overnight and
got one error (on test 11???). Changed ram. Got zero errors.
Crashes disappeared. Felt really good to fix THAT problem.
Another machine (AMD) had a bad cache.....it was not the ram
at all and I could fix it by disabling the cache in the BIOS. Of
course it ran too slow and I replaced the motherboard to fix it.

You aren't trying to run the ram at a faster spped than
it is built for, are you? Does the BIOS allow you to select
a 'SAFE' option? If you fiddle with the timing and the problem
changes then you can probably assume it is indeed the ram
chips rather than the motherboard.

Post by **linflas** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:55 pm

about memtest, i ran it on a dual channel DDR module (from Geil) i bought in Bangkok last summer : no errors were found (i did all the tests, 3-4 hours !) but my system crashed each time i used them in a 3d game !
so here's my advice : do not buy Geil memory !

@florent : in montgallet, only buy samsung or elixir memory (or corsair if you're rich).

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:01 pm

Update on my RAM testing : first RAM module : 22 errors with 6 passes - second RAM module : nothing ! System won't even load BIOS !

Managed to get hold of the store's hotline and they agreed to exchange it...

Paul : no, I haven't tweaked any performance options in the BIOS. I think the only mistake I made was to buy cheap RAM !

Linflas : I'm getting some Corsair because I'm fed up of all the problems I got with this computer and want to be sure it will work from now on. Even though I'm broke. But you know, was my birthday recently

By the way I didn't buy my gear in Montgallet (except for the graphics card), but on actualis.com (stay away !).

Thanks to everyone for their highly valuable input, I hope everything will work out fine once I get hold of my $$$Corsair RAM$$$ !

Post by **PaulH** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:18 pm

Take it back to where you got it!

Or get the trusty Amiga out...

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:51 pm

Right so I took the RAM back and exchanged it for some Corsair Twin 2x512 Mb.

Inserted the stuff and booted, worked fine for a while, then bang, system froze just as I inserted my pathetic 64 Mb USB key (that I had already used numerous times without any sort of trouble). Reset the PC and the HD wasn't detected again ! Turned it off, turned it on again, and it booted just fine. Then I tried the Audio CD joke : worked out fine for the Streets album that gave me trouble in the first place, but then I got a hard reset as I inserted another (latest Deftones album, self-titled). WTF is going on ? Maybe I should reinstall Windows since it might have gone bad as I installed it with faulty RAM ? And I thought that was the end of my problems...

By the way, I had the feeling that reset upon Audio CD insert was caused by multisession "enhanced CDs". It seems the Deftones album is one of these. I tried some other enhanced CDs but had no problem. One thing that does bother is that I can't seem to read the "enhanced CD" session, Explorer only displays the audio tracks... Maybe I need to play them in a "real" CD drive and not a DVD-RW burner ?

Again, looking forward to reading your advice (going to test my RAM now...).

PS : Paul : My Amiga is dead (floppy drive is no more)

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:42 pm

Test the ram. All the tests. While it is running spend
5 minutes on several occasions with a plasic tool
of some sort and tap on the motherboard and the
memory chips and other components. Just gentle taps
although if it is working correctly you should be able
to bang away without any problem. Intermittent connections
are a terrible thing to debug.

Then, after what you have been through I would
format that hard drive and start over from scratch.
You need to eliminate possible causes. In fact,
if you have two sticks of memory, I would use just one
of them for now. If you can make one of them work
well for a week, then swap them and use the other.
Then after another week put them both in.

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:57 pm

Thanks again for your valuable input Paul, I highly appreciate !
So far, no errors on the RAM test, but I didn't run them all.

Regarding the formatting of my HD, do you think I should format all partitions (I have 3 currently) or just the system C: partition ?

Will keep you posted, back to work...

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:22 pm

Just the system partition. Then, the first thing after
getting ir running is to test any other partitions that
are visible from Windows. Ie: run the Windows CheckDisk
or whatever it is called.

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:27 pm

Thanks Paul, once again, I appreciate.

Btw I haven't directly answered to everyone who posted some hypotheses, but thank you as well. Pedro : I checked my power supply and it seems sufficient (340 W overall). Cows : I don't really have random powerdowns, just the "ocasionnal" reset after inserting an Audio CD. I will try and change the SATA cable for a start.

I just hope the motherboard isn't defective...

Post by **PaulH** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:21 pm

I urge you to get on the phone and speak to the place of purchase. The store has an obligation to sort out your problem. While this may take time, you MAY have a faulty component, or a component from a faulty batch which they might know about. They might even arrange to collect the computer and replace it! You never know, but the warranty is there for a reason and you do not want to invalidate it if you accidently break something.

Also they have to do this in a 'reasonable' amount of time. I am sure the trading laws differ in France slightly, but the basics will be the same. Give 'em grief, you should expect a working product! You PAID for this!

PS, actually don't give them grief, be diplomatic. Lay out the problem constuctively to them, ask for advice and hope it resolves quickly.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:34 pm

Florent!
I would suggest to install linux.
This helped me once to find an error, i would not have found with windows:
i think it was the disk controller.
Give it a try, if you want. I am no linux freak but installation is easY as cake in these times, so get hold of a cd and try to install it..since you have to reinstall windows anyway. Maybe you find the error.

THen again it is a good idea to contact the place of purchase, as PaulH said.
Good LUck

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:13 pm

PaulH : Bought the computer in spare parts from an online store and assembled it myself... Their telephone help desk is almost unreachable and expensive... I'll try anyway...

Zoooom : Installing Linux ? Wow, never thought about it. Does it have any special debugging features ? I'll think about it if everyhting keeps going as bad...

Paul S : RAM test complete, couldn't find an option to run all tests, but ran several passes of test #9 (the longest) then several passes of the others (1-8), zero errors ! That's the good news. I reinstalled Windows, but it seems I have a problem with my monitor now (during the install, screen kept going black, then back on again, almost flickering on and off sometimes - but the power light stayed on - then as it went dark there was some very thin blue static on the screen... scary stuff)... Called the LG hotline and they said it could just be the DVI cable, because it works in VGA mode. Now I'm forced to buy another DVI cable to test if it's broken or not ! So I haven't had the time to test the "Audio CD insertion reset bug" on my new install yet. Scandisk went fine on all my drives though.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:36 pm

this call is 2.99 per min please hold 'till the next available representative finishes their sandwich and doughnut.

Please stay on the line as you be chosen sooner than rediling.. and it increases the amount of money you have to pay us

(just kidding.. but just imagine)

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:30 pm

Did you try to run the system with no CD & DVD devices ?
You can also try some diagnose software like "Fresh Diagnose" or sth like this.
I rather doubt that Windows makes this problem, however everything is possible (drivers' problem) ... Do you have enough disk space for swap file ? By the way, it is always better to set constant swap file size.
Did you thorougly check BIOS settings for CPU & memory ?

Pedro

Florent · Post by **Florent** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:41 am

Pedro : I usually leave BIOS and swap file settings to default. My HD is 160 Gb big so I believe I have enough space

Anyway, the computer seems to be working fine now (possibly because of my reinstalling Windows with the new ATI Catalyst 5.4 drivers). I only had one crash very early when no drivers were installed, and yesterday had no problems at all even after testing lots of stuff (different Audio and data CDs, DVDs, software installs...). Just need to sort out my monitor problem now !

Thank you all for your help, and let's hope I don't need it again too soon !