[Custom dungeon] Surgical Strike [RTC] [Sophia]

[Adamo]

Thanx! Well, if the old RTC might not recognize (or properly read) saves from new RTC version, and I don`t see any nasty/fatal bugs in the gameplay, I will stay with the newer engine - I played a lot and don`t want to start it all again. I don`t want to risk with new saves on old engine - don`t want surprizes like glitches, disappearing keys, etc.

[Gambit37]

Don't say we didn't warn you!

[Adamo]

The dungeon is really cool, but there should be a warning: "play only on RTC v0.37". I played on newer RTC and now can`t finish it because of several reasons (backward compatibility). I don`t mind for example for distance- attacking scorpions (no matter if there`s a real wall between), but I think a situation, when an important door is wrong oriented (EW instead of NS = impassable), might be qualified as a fatal bug. I also can`t use saves from 0.49 in 0.37, so I need to start the game from the beginning.

[Adamo]

OK, I downloaded RTC v0.39, started Surgicial Strike from the beginning. While fighting with the skeletons on level 0, the game hangs up. Here`s what it comes:

Code: Select all

RTC (V0.39) Diagnostic file - Sun Jan 10 12:24:27 2010

Error:
  an integer divide by zero exception.

Stack Dump:
  RTC.UpdateItemDoor(int 1063, int 2966, char 7, char 17, char 3);
  RTC.UpdateItem(int 1063, char 7, char 17, char 3, pointer 0x00000000);
  RTC.UpdateItems();
  RTC.UpdateDungeon();
  RTC.ProgStateInDungeon();
  RTC.DoFrame(int 50);
  RTC.WinMain();

Of course, I won`t send this raport to GG, as he surely updated this and other bugs long time ago (it`s an old version of RTC). So I have a great dilemma: to play SS on older RTC, risking an crash all the time, or on newer RTC, witout any unexpected crashes, but with internal game "bugs" (not SS bugs, but caused by RTC incompatibility), like unproper monster behavior or impassable doors?

You really need to release SS on DSB, Sophia

[beowuuf]

Of course it crashes, you need version 0.37! V0.38 or 39 was the one that messed everything up!

The example in the list of dungeon was how you get old engines, not which engine to download. Replace the 0.39 link with 0.37 link and you won't have the crash!

http://chaos.zpc.cz/rtc/RTC_V037.zip


I've added the references to the first page

[Gambit37]

Note that the wrong oriented door won't be fixed by using the correct version, but it's a non-essential route and won't stop you from completing the game.

[beowuuf]

Well, his saved game won't fix, but the correct engine and the correct dungeon will, won't it?

[Gambit37]

Yes, I mean you need to start from scratch using the 0.37 engine -- but either way, the wrongly rotated door won't get fixed. It's a bug in the dungeon, but it doesn't affect the ability to complete the game. Thanks for updating the first post with information to use v0.37 -- I meant to do that ages ago and forgot.

Mixing and matching different save games with incorrect engine versions or non-matching versions of the .RTC file is a sure fire way to mess things up even further.

[Sophia]

Note that the wrong oriented door won't be fixed by using the correct version, but it's a non-essential route and won't stop you from completing the game.

The door also still functions, so once you've pressed both buttons, it will open and you can go through. You just won't see it opening.

This very bug is actually the main reason that DSB lets you explicitly specify the facing of a door as automatic, force N/S, or force E/W.

[Sophia]

You really need to release SS on DSB, Sophia

Yeah, maybe someday.

DSB actually loads and plays the RTSB conversion surprisingly well. All of the new items/actions/attack methods or whatever aren't ported, of course, and redoing all of those using custom Lua code would take quite some time. And of course, what's the fun of porting a dungeon if you don't add a bunch of stuff. So... I dunno.

[Adamo]

I played RTC v0.37; the same bug:

Code: Select all

RTC (V0.37) Diagnostic file - Sun Jan 10 20:31:49 2010

Error:
  an integer divide by zero exception.

Stack Dump:
  RTC.UpdateItemDoor(int 1393, int 1633, char 25, char 8, char 4);
  RTC.UpdateItem(int 1393, char 25, char 8, char 4, pointer 0x00000000);
  RTC.UpdateDungeon();
  RTC.ProgStateInDungeon();
  RTC.DoFrame(int 50);
  RTC.WinMain();

what's the fun of porting a dungeon if you don't add a bunch of stuff.

Well, you could add a bunch of stuff then
Seriously, porting all your games to DSB - and repairing eventual bugs - would take... few hours maybe? And adding extra stuff to the existing games would be more than fun, but would take much more time! At least I think so.

[Gambit37]

Weird, I've never seen that bug report and SS never crashed on me using RTC 0.37. The first message "UpdateItemDoor()" suggests this is where the problem arises -- are you doing something near a door when the crash happens? Perhaps throwing an item through it, or messing around with items on the floor in a doorway? Without knowing what you're doing when the crash happens, it's virtually impossible for anyone to help.

Not that we can help anyway, you'd need GG to look at it. But if you can work out what's causing the crash, then you can make sure you stop doing that thing!

Seriously, porting all your games to DSB - and repairing eventual bugs - would take... few hours maybe? And adding extra stuff to the existing games would be more than fun, but would take much more time! At least I think so.

Ha ha, I love it when people not associated with a project predict that changes "will only take a few hours." There are very few tasks that take "a few hours" if you want them to work well, be fully tested, and have zero bugs. A few days might be more realistic in this case, or possibly even weeks.

[Adamo]

Gambit wrote:

are you doing something near a door when the crash happens?

The crashes happens occasionally when I fight with skeletons, when the skeletons are staying under the closing grate. This was only in RTC v0.37 and 0.39. In later versions (at least in 0.49) that bug never happened (= was probably repaired).

[Sophia]

Seriously, porting all your games to DSB - and repairing eventual bugs - would take... few hours maybe?

[Joramun]

Seriously, porting all your games to DSB - and repairing eventual bugs - would take... few hours maybe?

You just seriously over-estimated my conversion tool.
(However, I must admit it can help a lot - but only if you create custom objects the not-so-good way).

[Gambit37]

The crashes happens occasionally when I fight with skeletons, when the skeletons are staying under the closing grate.

Dont fight them under the gate then

[Lunever]

Still gathering information for the current custom dungeon list update.

I suppose if RTC V0.37 lists the RTC file drom the V2.2 zip download as Surgical Strike V2.1 that only means that the description wasn't updated in the file, and not that this is the wrong file? Can you confirm this, Sophia?

Also, if I remember correctly a long time ago I had some source information from you, but I guess they went to hell along with the HD I previously had all my Dungeon Master stuff stored on. So, would yo maybe willing to send me source files? Of course as always I'd only backup them and only upload anything if you'd specifically release it (would be great to release the source though to show what can be done with clever dungeon mechanics).

[Sophia]

Yes, I forgot to update the version number in the actual dungeon. The download is the correct version.
It's for RTC 0.37 and you pretty much need RTC 0.37-- it won't properly recompile on a current RTC, nor does it play right on a current one.

I'll send you the .txt if you want it, but I don't think it makes very good teaching, because it's a mess, and a lot of what it does is completely out of date. I'd rather get people using DSB anyway.

[Lunever]

Yes, I would like that text file very much - and maybe any additional media beyond core RTC, if you have used such.

No matter whether its good teaching or not - do you allow me to upload it publicly, or should I stick to a non-public backup only?

At least either way the source text cannot get lost (like the Unidane.txt) and if someone actually wants to take the effort, it could be recompiled in theory.

[agarules]

Newly Updated for RTC 0.37
IMPORTANT NOTE: THIS GAME CRASHES ON RTC ENGINES NEWER THAN THIS. TO PLAY, USE
http://chaos.zpc.cz/rtc/RTC_V037.zip

Here's a new dungeon for RTC called "Surgical Strike," so named because it's a strike deep into the heart of enemy territory. This means CSB-style right-in-the-thick-of-it gameplay, so if you're going to import champions, make sure they're up to the task. There is, of course, a hall of champions to choose from, too.

The .RTC can go wherever you want it, but /Modules is probably a good place. I don't include the graphics and sounds any more, since you don't need them separately, but if you want them, let me know.

And here is is! (~1.5MB download)
http://www.ojnk.net/dm/sstrike_2_2.zip

Under 0.36, 2.0 and 2.1 could be solved. However, if you are playing on RTC 0.37, SS v2.2 is required. It has some new features anyway, so why not

Backup: http://cid-5af78f9a064bada7.skydrive.li ... ike-37.zip

Started playing Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back after not having played them for years. Still fantastic games (I bought them when they first came out and played them on Atari ST and Amiga 500). Anyway, felt like something new, so had a look at the community made mods and downloaded and played a few of them. Some of them had really tough and annoying puzzles, which I did manage to do, but then afterwards I thought was it worth it and I didn't enjoy playing. I was looking for a mod that was like Dungeon Master and yours is the one that I am liking. Entered the Hall of Champions to see who was available and then quit out and loaded my save from very near the end of Dungeon Master. Iaido, Leyla, Chani and Wu Tse. All are masters at Wizard and Priest spells. Did the first few levels and of course, it was easy with the party that I had.
OK, my question. Is it possible to load just 2 characters from a saved Dungeon Master game using the RTC editor, go into your dungeon and then add 2 of yours from the Hall of Champions? If not, then I will select 4 from your Hall of Champions and train them up. Chani is available, but no Wu Tse.
Before I downloaded this mod, I was reading some of your comments about incompatibility with some versions of RTC. I didn't have any problems, so maybe I'm just lucky.
Can you or anyone recommend a great mod for me that uses RTC? I am liking Surgical Strike and Theron's Quest at present.

[terkio]

"Dungeons Matter" by Ouch.

"Dark Reign" by Saumun.
All dungeons by Saumun.

[agarules]

Cheers, terkio. I will check them out.

[terkio]

I see Dark Reign in the custom dungeon listed as a DSB game.
Actually, the first Dark Reign from Saumun is a RTC game, later he made a DSB version.

[agarules]

Yes, I downloaded Dark Reign 1 and 2, both for RTC. Also, Dungeons Matter for RTC. They are all pretty good. Again, thanks for your recommendations.
Downloaded Surgical Strike by Sophia. Had a look at the available characters and chose 4 that I liked. They have great starting stats...way above what you get in Dungeon Master. Saved the game immediately after choosing and now I can import them to any other RTC game. I've been altering their faces in the editor to images that I have (64 x 58). Anyway, after importing them and starting the original Dungeon Master game a notice appeared saying that my party was too strong and game difficulty is being set to craftsmen. They were all re-incarnated, so they know nowt, but have great stats. One of them has over 200 magic! I like.
Question: Is there a way to re-name your party team members once you have started the game? Or do you always have to do it when you re-incarnate them and that's end of?

[Saumun]

You cannot change the names “in game”.

Also, going from what you have downloaded, Dark Reign 2 does not accept imports (or rather, it does but kills you immediately).
This is because there are mechanics that rely on the champions names. You’ll notice when you click a mirror that there is no ‘reincarnation’ option.

[agarules]

Good to know. I did notice that there wasn't a re-incarnation option when I had a quick look at it. So, would this follow for any RTC mod that doesn't have a re-incarnation option, or is it just specific to Dark Reign 2?
Thanks for your input and advice, me being a noob at installing mods for RTC (finally got round to it after playing the game from when it first came out).

[Saumun]

Not necessarily.
You may be able to import in dungeons that don’t have a reincarnation option. They’re not directly linked.
As I said, in DR2 it was a necessity because some of the mechanics depend on the character name, but it really is up to whoever built the dungeon and what they were looking to achieve.

[agarules]

Just what I figured...depends on the dungeons mechanics and whether they rely on a specific character name. Been looking at the config files for dungeons that I have downloaded and wow, are they well, complicated and show just how much work goes into them. I ain't gonna mess with 'em, as I don't have the skill and would involve a massive learning curve. I will accept dungeon mods for what is given to me by a talented community and be grateful that I can play my all-time favourite game using their work.
Very much appreciate your time and courteous response.

[Saumun]

There is certainly a learning cave, but the more you play with the editor, the more possibilities open up.
Dark Reign was my first attempt and is very simplistic as far as mechanics go, but with more and more playing around my dungeons were made with ever more elaborate mechanics.
Also, as long as I’m around here, I’m happy to help with any queries (if I can).

[terkio]

Indeed, it is amazing what dungeons designers have been able to achieve with RTC.
A lot of guessing from an undocumented and unfinished product. Tons of workarounds to cleverly extend it.
I did not have the patience.
I fancied great stuff but once at some high complexity, I had too many unexplained wrong behaviors, I was unable to overcome.
This was so time consuming, testing and testing over and over again, I quit.