Dungeon Master Forum

Ok after 2 years I'm back... And I still can't get it to work, lol

I downloaded something that looks like last version of csb from the web. Only the .exe is there. So what else do I need? Well I put graphics.dat and dungeon.dat into same directory. Also found config.txt on the web. It still doesn't work. I run the exe and it automatically crashes in 2 secs. There's no "install" instructions anywhere so I am getting a bit lost here... And no, I do know something about using computers

There is a package available on the DM Encyclopaedia that will guive you 'version 9.8) with everything needed to run. It even has bat files to launch DM, CSB etc (as it now supports multiple dungeon directories)

Now, the link you've followed is to the upgrades - each bug or feature requested usually generates a new csbwin.exe file. Each new csbwin.exe usually requires the editor CSBuild to be upgraded to match to a new feature (and for bug fixes alot of the time not).

There is currently a file called 'CSBwin-CSBuild.exe' that is dated for a few days ago, that has version 9.8.134 of CSBwin, anbd also allthe files you need for CSBuild to run

The latest 'official' version of CSBwin including all necessary files is available in the file CSBWindows98.rar found at the bottom of this page: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851

There are more recent versions of the CSBwin engine, but they are development versions adding new features for people who design new custom dungeons. You do not need these versions to play the game.

Uncompress the rar archive, then run 'PlayCSB-Atari.bat' or 'PlayDM-Atari.bat' to play CSB or DM.

If you have any error message, please post it here so that Paul can help you in troubleshooting.

ChristopheF wrote:The latest 'official' version of CSBwin including all necessary files is available in the file CSBWindows98.rar found at the bottom of this page: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851

There are more recent versions of the CSBwin engine, but they are development versions adding new features for people who design new custom dungeons. You do not need these versions to play the game.

Uncompress the rar archive, then run 'PlayCSB-Atari.bat' or 'PlayDM-Atari.bat' to play CSB or DM.

If you have any error message, please post it here so that Paul can help you in troubleshooting.

This one works. But if I try the package from Paul's web - CSBwin-CSBuild.zip - and run it, it crashes. Very weird.

That package isn't a stand alone package for CSBwin, it's a stand alone package for CSBuild, the editor, latest version. It also contains the newest beta CSBwin.exe file. If you overwrite CSBwin.exe file you got from the encyclopaedia with this new one, there should be no problems.

I just downloaded CSBwin-CSBuild.zip.
I decompressed all the files into a single
folder. I ran CSBwin from that folder.
It worked just fine for me. I resurrected
the champion, killed a screamer and a
skeleton. That is the end of that game.

What happened to you?

Oh. I got it. Just tried again and it works. What I did before was overwriting the dungeon.dat and graphics.dat with the original ones from DM. If I do that, whole application crashes to windows after about 2 secs. Not really sure what's wrong.

"The original ones from DM"

You mean the PC DM ones? The problem with that is that CSBwin is atari based so the files are different

Otherwise ignore me, as I was mistaken before about the package

That would sound pretty logical Yup. I thought they are something else, so I replaced them.
It runs "fine" now, with the exception that I can't get it to work with my saved game. I hope I got it right and can use save from PC version... This or that way, no matter what I do, it asks for CSB save... Any tip where to place dmsave.dat or what to do so I can play?



And one more different question: CSBwin is based on original code of DM (I guess it doesn't matter if Atari or PC) or is it something completely different which "just" behaves and looks like DM?

The information you seek is at the link posted earlier:

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851

As far as I know, PC save games were never compatible with CSBWin.

To sum up, CSBwin is based on Paul going through the CSB atari code, and converting it to machine code to run on the PC. So essentially it is pretty much the CSB playable on atari. This engine has not many differences to the DM engine but some (also, each version of the DM engine had differences to the other, and even atari and amiga CSB had differences too). Also, for years now Paul has been adding various capabilities so that now the format and engine are differnet to the original. There is a psuedo-code language to do complex puzzles with, there is the ability to skin a dungeon, etc

Sorry for dumb questions. I just can't believe someone would do this. Not like I am into coding - all I ever knew was Pascal and that's long ago forgotten - but I downloaded the source and... my, thats HUGE! Christ, I'd give the guy Nobel price for patience, at least!

I guess all the game mechanics are same for PC version then... Out of curiosity, where did he get source anyway? That's not something ex-FTL guys would let into the world

Did you actually read that page? Paul never had the source:

Finally, after many years, I got my hands on the binary executable for the game. I wrote a disassembler to turn it into human-readable op-codes and proceeded to translate it to C++ using the Microsoft Version 6.0 C++ compiler. Eight hours a day for six months. About 120,000 lines of pseudo-assembly language. Crazy thing to do. But it works.

Yes I did. I don't quite understand what's "binary executable". I am no programmer, sorry. I understood he got the source. Sorry for not being rocket scientist.

also:
"To sum up, CSBwin is based on Paul going through the CSB atari code"

OK, my bad. You mentioned you'd done programming in the past so I assumed you would know the difference between a compiled program and it's source.

The binary executable is the compiled program, compiled from the original source code. On Windows for example, compiled executables have the .EXE extension.

It's possible, with the right knowledge and tools, to decompile and/or disassemble compiled programs into a form that can then be reinterpreted into a kind of source code. It ain't pretty, and isn't directly usable unless you're exceedingly bright (like Paul). Decompiled code lacks all the original variable names, comments, and anything vaguely resembling structure. That's my understanding anyway, Paul can elaborate more I'm sure.

Well, my bad as well for not being clear enough. I had some basics of Pascal years ago That's it. Nothing even remotely close to coding as you understand it.

I understand now. Heard about disassembling before. Just wasn't 100% sure what's the story here.
Btw. Why Atari code? Would it make a difference if he took PC version?

That was the whole point of the exercise. There is no PC code for CSB. CSB was never released on the PC. There were only atari and amiga versions.

Since the program was started more knowledge of the dungeon.dat structure has lead to the ability to alter graphics.dats and dungeon.dats to the point that the CSB dungeon could be created for PC DM. But the PC DM engine does not have the facility to import champions from the saved game into the dungeon like the CSB engine has. Nor does it have the hint oracle.

Ok. Now I feel and prolly look like complete idiot. Always like this - I ask stuff or speak before I think. lol. Ofcourse CSB wasn't released on PC and I even knew it. Just didn't think about it from the right point of view.

So you can maybe delete this whole conversation I don't like to look too dumb (it's bad enough already, heh)

don't quite understand what's "binary executable"

I started with about 120,000 16-bit integers from the
.exe file. Like this:

d008
125a
8bc0
4487
12cc

Plus 119995 more.....
Those are the binary (hex for display purposes) op-codes
that the Atari hardware 'executed' when you played CSB.
Each (a bit of a lie here) represents a 'machine-language'
instruction. '4487' might mean to add register 0 to register 7.
'12cc' might mean to subtract one from register 6.

PC save games were never compatible with CSBWin.

You should be able to load a PC savegame with CSBuild,
save it, then use CSBwin to play the 'converted' game.
CSBuild should take care of all the conversions necessary.
This worked at one time. I have not tried it recently.
If it does not work, let me know and I will fix it.

it works