RTCWM - RTC Wallset Maker (current version 0.2)

Post by **linflas** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:53 am

Well i think i got it, that's quite logical but i have only a "manual" solution for RTCWM : the mask you can see in the screenshot above is the typical example. Without changing bitmap position (here 0,19) but by moving party to <RIGHT,1>, you can grab the left part of the bitmap. By saving these 2 parts and mixing them in a paint program, you get the final image : and i don't like this

EDIT: ohohoh... just got 0.35 ! people can start using RTCWM

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:05 am

George Gilbert wrote:For what it's worth, the stairs are a right royal pain in the wotsit for the RTC (and presumably DM / CSB) engines - I'm not surprised you're having problems too!

The key point is that the engines are not designed to show objects differently depending on what angle you see them from. For example, a statue will look exactly the same when viewed from the north, south, east or west. DM / CSB got around this by not having any objects in them that looked different from different angles (everything has four-fold symmetry, like the pits / grates etc, or is too small for anyone to really notice, like puddles / cracks).

Stairs however *are* different depending on what direction you view them (side on is different from front on) and so the dual bitmaps trick the engine into working. If you have a long hard think about it, you should be able to see how it works - it only does so because walls are *always* surrounded by walls on 3 sides!

Really, the engine should handle this properly and be able to display different bitmaps for objects depending on which direction your party is viewing them from. That way you won't have to splice bitmaps together and can specify them separately. You'll then also be able to have "proper" asymmetrical objects in the dungeon - one for RTC V0.36 methinks...

OK, I've now added the support required for this.

The next step of course is to create a set of asymmetrical bitmaps for stairs and door frames so that they look correct even when there aren't any walls in the way (for example, if there are invisible walls, the stairs / door frames look as you might expect).

Anyone fancy doing this and coming up with a set of bitmaps for this that are consistent with the DM wall set?

Post by **linflas** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:08 pm

it's nice to have implemented this George but penciling these new bitmaps for the DM wallset is a quite long work : stairs up + stairs down + door frames + pits + ceilings + pillars + !!!!
first, i'll try to find a way to join the two semi-bitmaps in one (i think i got it), then release RTCWM as is.
if someone else has enough time for this...

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:55 pm

There's just the stairs up / down and door frames I think. Pits, ceilings and pillars are already covered (as they've got 4 fold symmetry).

Post by **linflas** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:17 pm

i see what you mean for pits and ceilings : only half of "side 0" bitmap is needed.
but for door frame there's an orientation problem :
- 3 front views and 3 side views for North-South
- again 6 views for East-West
could be a piece of cake in 3D... a bit longer for original DM wallset by cut-pasting existing graphics to make the other views.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:24 pm

Correct.

The door frames will need 12 bitmaps. The stairs however require 36 (because the 3 side views on the right are not just flipped versions of those on the left - so there are 9 different views from any one given angle - and all 4 orientations are different!).

As you say, it would be trivial to do in 3D - just build a model and hit the "render" button to map a texture on to it. All we need now is such a tool

Post by **linflas** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:43 pm

hehe

so, for now i try to find a way to join bitmaps first.
we'll see later for enhancements.

Post by **linflas** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:02 pm

All right ! here's a first working release. See 1st post for download.
Please read the doc, the tool is not as easy as Sophia's

(oh, and don't take care about the warnings in RTC compilation)

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:32 am

WOW! This tool is awesome! Kudos to you linflas!

I was having a problem with blurry walls, but then I read doc.htm that helped me with the problem. I should have read it BEFORE I used the program, I thought it was a bug. Doh! lol

"By default, MIPMAP is ON in rtcwm.ini. If you don't want blurry walls but more "dust and scratches", change it to OFF. "

Awesome work here!!!

Post by **linflas** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:26 am

thanks

and now that you talk about it, i think MIPMAP should have been set to OFF by default..

btw... as PaulH said :
<gay>
what beautiful blue eyes you have.. do you wear anything under your torso plate ?
</gay>

Post by **PaulH** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:49 pm

For some odd reason I was compelled to read this thread. Now I see why! Yes, an elven silk is needed under the torso plate or you get cold nipples.

Anyway, I shall be trying this utility soon. If its breakable, I'll break it.

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:03 pm

Yay! No more cold nipples! Is that better?

Post by **PaulH** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:07 pm

Halk likes Syras cold nipples.

*wandering off topic*

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:18 pm

There's wandering, and there's going downhill at 85kph screaming off topic

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:07 pm

Bump

I was just wondering if their was any new progress on RTCWM? I haven't heard any new news in a little while. I have been trying to use the tool to create a wallset, but it seems to have a few problems with it.

Post by **linflas** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:29 pm

sorry but i stopped developing RTCWM. i know there must be lots of stuff to add/fix... but some people have performance problems because of the 2D routines and i can't do anything for that, except coding a full 3D interface : and i simply won't do that.
if you don't experiment this performance problem then i can help you.
i can even provide wallsets with RTC code from your textures : just send them to me (floor, wall, etc.).

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:38 am

Linflas, I know a little about blitz3d, been using it since the first versions. PM me if you like, I may be able to assist with speeding things up a bit.

Incidentally, it worked great on mine.

A

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:08 am

It has been running just fine for me. I have used it on several computers without problems (running it that is).

I encourage you to continue with this project. It has been a real time saver for me. I think the fogging and lighting adjustments that you can do with it are awesome! Keep up the good work!

Post by **linflas** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:57 am

Andy, thanks for your help, but I discover that it's a known issue in b3d. Some graphics cards simply don't handle blitz 2D routines correctly : i experimented this problem with GeForce 4 and Quadro family.
If your good at tweening routines, then i can send you the whole RTCWM source code : you'll be probably afraid of it

L!ghthouse, i'd like to know what kind of problems you met, and if they are blocking ones.
Honestly, i prefer losing my time in making graphics with RTCWM than coding.

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:57 pm

Well, I guess the best way to see what I mean is to try it for yourself. Here are the ones that I remember though.

RTC Code:
1) The offsets for the RTC generated code was off.
2) The pit (under new objects), used a space instead of a tab (before PROPERTIES I believe)
3) RTC now has 2 new wallset bitmaps for the magic map. It would be nice to have this added to the generated code, even if they only point to the default bitmaps.

RTCWM:
4) When you clicked on ALT for several bitmaps, it would not change the camera (you would have to change this yourself).
5) This is a suggestion, but it would be nice to have one button that produced all the bitmaps at once instead of doing them one at a time.
6) More models would be cool too!

Hope this helps! If you can't reproduce some of these, let me know and I'll try to reproduce it again and get back to you.

Post by **linflas** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:57 pm

Done for 0.3 !

... Not

Ok, I'm on holiday tomorrow so let's see what i can do :

1) What do you mean by "off" ? Were offsets leaved blank in the saved text file ?

2) Found it !

3) Each RTC code line is related to a line in masks.ini and a picture in masks directory. all this is now added.

4) On which ones ?

5) This would be a huge enhancement for RTCWM ! I've been thinking about it since WHACK first release. Camera position for each bitmap is already fixed in masks.ini but i must also fill in some kind of database that says what 3D objects must be shown/hidden for each bitmap... That would be long but not impossible.

6) Oh yes, pillars, statues would be cool too. If some people have 3ds (not max) meshes to share.. i can add them to the tool.

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:13 am

1)There are many problems with offsets. I have only gone through the problems with the wallsets, but here are the ones that I have found:
(Name = RTCWM Offset -> Actual RTC Offset)
Far3 = 32x50 -> 0x50
Left1 = 64x18 -> 0x18
Left2 = 122x40 -> 0x40
Left3 = 148x50 -> 0x50
Side0 = 64x0 -> 0x0
Side1 = 122x18 -> 64x18
Side2 = 152x40 -> 120x40
Side3 = 170x50 -> 148x50

2)

3)

4)The alternate bitmaps for the following items are do not sync with the camera.
STAIRSUP_SIDE0
STAIRSUP_SIDE1
STAIRSUP_SIDE2
STAIRSUP_SIDE3
STAIRSDOWN_SIDE0
STAIRSDOWN_SIDE1
STAIRSDOWN_SIDE2
STAIRSDOWN_SIDE3
PIT_SIDE1
PIT_SIDE2
PIT_SIDE3
CEILING_SIDE1
CEILING_SIDE2
DOORFRAME_SIDE1
DOORFRAME_SIDE2
DOORFRAME_SIDE3
Now That I have typed this list. I don't know if there is even one of these that you can use an alternate bitmap for! Maybe if you disabled the ability to select an alternate bitmap on these so as not to confuse people.

5) Ah yes! This would make RTCWM the ultimate wallset building tool! Highly encouraged!

6) Sorry, I'm no artist. Wish I could help with this one!

7) I found another one. There is a problem with the floor bitmap. It also draws the bottom of the walls along with it. If you turn up the brightness you can see what I mean.

Post by **linflas** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:36 am

1) Strange... I get the correct values in "custom.txt" when running RTCWM and just clicking on 'Generate RTC code' button. I can't find how you got these values

4) Oh i see. That's explained in the doc, but i admit this is a bit hard to understand.

Some "SIDE" bitmaps are a mix of two different views.

stairsup_side1
stairsup_side2
stairsdown_side1
stairsdown_side2
pit_side0
ceiling_side0

Here's an example :

A routine that can merge these bitmaps automatically is almost impossible : there is no way to know where the line between the two is located...

For the rest of your list, i left the Alt button clickable but you don't need alternate view for them. I forgot to mention all of them in the doc..

Note : "Main/Alt" button is also enabled for DOORFRAME but you don't need to save an alternate version.

5) About this 'Save all' feature, you must take light into consideration. It will be the same for all objects. Personally, i increase fog distance when i want to save stairs_up bitmap.

7) Yes, i know this. The height value of the floor bitmap is 132, which isn't correct in a real 3D environment. I try to keep fog distance value around 10 to avoid from this. The two walls are not hide-able at the moment, so if i succed in coding the 5) routine, i'll hide them.

(these posts are becoming longer everyday !)

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:55 pm

4) This dodgy splicing is no longer needed for recent versions of RTC because now you can specify different bitmaps depending on the orientation of the party relative to the stairs.

I.e. you can just generate single bitmaps and specify them as is without having to join them together.

The splicing used in the default stairs bitmaps was just a cunning way of getting around the limitation of symmetry imposed in early versions of RTC.

L!ghthouse · Post by **L!ghthouse** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:12 pm

linflas wrote:1) Strange... I get the correct values in "custom.txt" when running RTCWM and just clicking on 'Generate RTC code' button. I can't find how you got these values

Hmm, I will try to get some time this afternoon or tomorrow to try to reproduce this. I just remember that when I plugged everything into RTC, the results had those offsets.

Post by **linflas** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:15 pm

George Gilbert wrote:... now you can specify different bitmaps depending on the orientation of the party relative to the stairs.

i just made a test and conclude that we will need 4 new flooritems instead of 2 : this mean that people will have to be aware of stairs direction (up/down) AND orientation (ns/ew) !

here's my test dungeon (STAIRSDOWN only).
http://www.freewebs.com/linflas/newstairs.rar (link down)

i don't know for other people but i prefer the original solution.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:07 pm

linflas wrote:
George Gilbert wrote:... now you can specify different bitmaps depending on the orientation of the party relative to the stairs.
i just made a test and conclude that we will need 4 new flooritems instead of 2 : this mean that people will have to be aware of stairs direction (up/down) AND orientation (ns/ew) !

Yes, that's right, although you don't need any more bitmaps (because the n/s bitmaps for the n/s stairs are identical to the e/w bitmaps for the e/w stairs and so on).

linflas wrote:i don't know for other people but i prefer the original solution.

Fair enough - just pointing out what's possible!

Chaos-Shaman · Post by **Chaos-Shaman** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:32 pm

Thanks for rtcwm program linflas

I think I have most of it figured out. I needed to learn some things to give me the understanding necessary to manipulate .bmps and stuff.
I have a testing dungeon I'd like you to check for me, just a little trouble with the stairs. Could you spend a few minutes to check it out?
thanks

Post by **linflas** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:11 am

yes of course, pm me where i can get it !

Chaos-Shaman · Post by **Chaos-Shaman** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:49 pm

oh that is great, i have been so busy these last few days and have been fixing my kids computers on top of things, i can't wait to get back to RTC and RTCWM to fidget with it. it's a test dungeon, i called it fungeon, and you'll see why when you play it