Dungeon Master Forum

2 days of the new job done and dusted. Haven't really done anything yet! PC hasn't been setup properly and it takes days for IT Support to do anything it turns out.... I'm getting frustrated already as I won't be able to do much good until that's sorted. Looks like HR are a bunch of muppets too.

I knew there were good reasons not to work at a large corporate!

The commute's not so great: 1hr 35m on the way, around 2hr coming home.

I've managed to be disciplined and go to bed early so far and get
up at 630 compared to around 9am in my last job. So that's good.

Speaking of which: night night.

HR always are!

Well done for keeping good hours, but that is a bit of a joke you lose so much time on the communte! Is this by undeground or is the overground transport letting you down?

1hr 35 is bloody brilliant! About the best it could be door to door.

The coming home time is because their are fewer fast trains as commuter retrun journeys out of london tend to stop at more stations. And it takes longer to get out of Canary Wharf on the tube at rush hour. You should see it, it's insane. Can't wait to move!

I'm getting home at around 7-715 pm which isn't any later than when I worked 20 minutes walk away because I used to get up so late and work later....

LOL, oops, I forgot you still talking about your Brighton times!

Yeah, 1.35 hrs is fantastic timing

Ýou'll be reading lots of books on your new commute, then Gambit.

Yes, reading Pushing Ice at the moment, by Alastair Reynolds. Rather too much fluff so far -- not as good as his earlier material, but still entertaining nevertheless.

On another note (and I hope I don't offend any of our female members by sharing this), but I simply have to comment on the delightful young ladies working in and around Canary Wharf. I've always been rather partial to an elegant, well turned out woman, and wow -- spoilt for choice up here. Shame I'm too shy to do anything about it.

Even worse that there's an incredibly tall hot French girl working in my department that I'm beginning to rather fancy.

Oh dear, what bad luck!

Bgharf! Yeah, that moving thing is good incentive to keep your sanity. And tall French women. Talking to people is all it takes. Start with "hi," then graduate to "how are you," and eventually it becomes small-talk, then friendship, then who knows what. Time is on your side, my friend.

Well, I'm already lending her my spirit level! I have no idea what that means!

I thought you worked with computers Gambit, and not for builders or Ghostbusters!

Spirit level? Sweet muppets that's a bit forward

Gambit! are there any ITALIAN girls in your departement?
tip: start conversation by "ti amo" - no matter what you say later

if you have a notebook with wireless LAN connection, is it possible to use it while travelling to/from work? I mean, like connecting the net from the train? or is it only possible using cell phone?
You could surf the net, watch the movies during the travel, etc.
1.5 - 2 hours is more less the time of notebook batteries lifetime.

I have no intention of going anywhere near a computer on my commute!

No italian girls in my dept, but I'm sure out of 8500 people in the building there must be a few in there...

The French girl is certainly cute, but moody and even more sarcastic than me. A tough nut to crack and I'm too old to play those games. Plus, I'm in the 'friend' zone with her now so that won't go anywhere. I need to cast my net wider... I'm fine talking to women that I already know, it's the complete strangers I have trouble with.

Gonna have to start practicing again! Oh, and after I move to London, I'm gonna join the works gym. Only £25 a month! And should open up a few intros I think... I had forgotten how much I miss female company.Although I have more female friends than men, that's the problem: they are friends.

Women are different to men. Certainly in my experience, women quickly put a guy into 'friend' or 'lover' zone. If you get in the friend zone you won't ever get to the lover zone unless you become either incredibly close or drunk.

The friend and lover zones are much closer than each other. But changing them is extremally risky; if you`ll come from the "friend" to the "lover" zone, you`ll never have the chance to go back - you`ll be put to "ex-lover" zone eventually, but not a friend at least I think so

Gambit37 wrote:Women are different to men. Certainly in my experience, women quickly put a guy into 'friend' or 'lover' zone. If you get in the friend zone you won't ever get to the lover zone unless you become either incredibly close or drunk.

I must protest slightly!

I think that partially biologically, and even in this modern age still somewhat culturally, whatever, women are not going to be as forward as men. It may not even be conscious, but there is still the "order of things," still commonplace in pop culture or what have you-- the man makes the advance, and the woman accepts it. (or rejects it, as the case may be) There's always the brave ones, the feminists, and the odd ducks, but, my point is, for a multitude of reasons, a lot of women have discomfort with making the first move.

So, this idea of "zones," while I have no doubt that some women do this, may not be nearly as much as you're making of it, and may simply be reluctance on her part. Try meeting her half way.

I sort of agree with both Sophia and Gambit here. It's certainly true that most women have trouble making the first step, and most also expect the guy to make the first move. That's a problem for shy guys like me. I also do think that many women file a guy who doesn't immediately start flirting under the "friend" drawer, and once there, it is usually impossible for the guy to get out of that drawer again. I can only speak from my own experiences there, though, and since I am shy and usually want to get to know a woman first before I think about flirting, most of the women I had a crush on were just good friends. There are, however, exceptions - I'm currently heavily experiencing one...

I was hoping to get a female response to what I wrote.

First, I should make it clear that while I find this woman attractive -- in spite of (and because of) her stand-offish nature, I make it a personal rule not to date anyone I work directly with. So although I joked about it, I'm not going to go there with her. But... she *is* very cute. Sigh.

Attraction isn't a choice. If a man quickly falls into the friend zone with a woman (because that's how she sees him and not as a potential lover), hecannot in any shape or form later convince her to find him attractive. The "friend zone" will prevent him ever becoming anything else. There are exceptions of course and some people are friends for years and then become couples (and often have the strongest relationships) but it's very rare. Most relationships start from a position of mutual attraction. If it doesn't start with that, it's unlikely to be anything other than friendship, and in my experience you can't cross those lines (unless you both get very drunk...).

This is why I have had rather complex relationships with women who I thought I were friends with but it turned out they fancied me all along, and the resulting messiness that ensued was, well, interesting to say the least.

Adamo wrote:But changing them is extremally risky; if you`ll come from the "friend" to the "lover" zone, you`ll never have the chance to go back - you`ll be put to "ex-lover" zone eventually, but not a friend at least I think so

Exactly. One of my closest friends, Linda, I have known for 14 years. When I first met her, we fancied each other, and although we did have the odd kiss, we never got closer because... well, I don't know why frankly. Over the years, we have continued to flirt and I guess we still both find each other cute in some way, but the friendship is more important than risking anything else -- so although we have talked about dating a few times, we never have because we're both afraid we'd lose the friendship if the dating didn't work. And deep down we're both pretty sure it wouldn't work if we dated.

Having a close friendship with a girl I find cute, with whom I can flirt, and for there to be no pressure and we can talk about all our problems may seem weird to some of you -- but it's pretty special and I intend to keep it that way.

Gambit37 wrote:If a man quickly falls into the friend zone with a woman (because that's how she sees him and not as a potential lover), he cannot in any shape or form later convince her to find him attractive. The "friend zone" will prevent him ever becoming anything else.

I disagree. As you get to know someone, you may discover previously unseen qualities that are particularly attractive, and your attitude thus changes. I introduced myself to a woman at college who'd been eying me for a while. I did it because I thought she was interested, and she was, but I waited too long to make a move, and she lost interest.

I think there is a "potential lover" zone that can either lead to "friend" or "lover," and if you fall back to "friend" then you have no real chance of going back to "potential lover." That's where we stand right now.

On the other hand, I have a very close female friend — incidentally a sister of one of my best male friends — whom I had a crush on for some time ("had" being the operative word). She's actually the only woman I've ever met who I knew would make a great partner, but it never happened, and I never pushed it. I never even suggested it. At this point I wouldn't simply because I agree with your subsequent post: there's too much to risk.

I agree with Sophia: there is certainly an unspoken order to how women and men approach one another. I also agree with Trantor, as I'm the same way. I am shy, so I like to take things slow. A woman has to demonstrate some interest in me before I'll even consider making a move, and then I do so with caution (but not necessarily reluctance).

Gambit37 wrote:A tough nut to crack and I'm too old to play those games.

I have the great fortune to have met a lovely woman at a haunt I go to every week. I'd actually seen her there about a year and a half ago, but I'd never imagined for a moment that she might find me attractive. She's not interested in fooling around; she just wants someone who makes her feel good about herself, and that I try to do because she's quite splendid, and she deserves to be admired. She is married but separated, and we've already drawn lines that won't be crossed. We seem to want the same thing, which precludes sex, and enjoying each other's company is the objective.

I think she chose me because I'm among the few younger patrons who hasn't tried to grope her. I started feeling like etiquette was overrated, because the assholes seem to have all the best women, but it takes only one appreciating comment to make it all worthwhile.

Gambit37 wrote:Although I have more female friends than men, that's the problem: they are friends.

That's not really a problem. It gives you a wonderful opportunity to develop insight, and female friends will gladly answer all kinds of fascinating questions you'd be terrified to ask a stranger. Arm yourself with their knowledge and stride into battle!

Having read your post with interest Tom, I feel I should clarify a point as you may have misunderstood me slightly.

It may have come across that by using terms like "lover" and "attraction" and "tough nut to crack", I was suggesting that I'm looking for nothing more than a purely sexual relationship. That couldn't be further from the truth.

What I *do* want (though not actively looking for) is a relationship with a woman who I find both attractive and mentally stimulating. I either seem to meet attractive women who I have no emotional connection with or the opposite.

I am beginning to doubt that there are any women who fulfil both criteria! Come on ladies, prove me wrong!

(Somehow I think saying that last line on this particular forum is an exercise in futility! -- because of the lack of women, not that the women here are only one or the other! PHEW, rescued it.)

Barely, Gambit, barely...

A little update on my personal life: I am now in Berlin for 2 months and I think I have accustomed quite well. I do have fun in my new job, and my boss told me he is very pleased with me so far. Last Wednesday, I got a new colleague who is new in Berlin as well. I'll meet her tomorrow to start looking around Berlin a bit, as getting to know a city is much more fun if you are not alone. We seem to be getting along quite well.

Funnily, my love life also isn't empty anymore. You may remember I completely gave up hope - and I did find hope where I least expected it! Though the situation is quite tricky, I fancy an intelligent, funny, and attractive girl who seems to like me at least as much as I like her. I haven't changed much myself yet, but things certainly do look up. I'm as happy as I haven't been in at least 2 years right now, and I already learned one thing: instead of worrying when all will end again, I just enjoy it and don't worry too much about the future.

So cool! You seem to really be finding your feet Trant. Really, really pleased for you -- on all fronts. An intelligent, funny, and attractive girl can make everything else seem kinda trivial...

Yes, Ive already congratulated you from hearing most of this, but will do it again because it's good to hear you are happy and have a positive attitude about that happiness

</delurk>
Heya all, you might remember me!
Funny how similar our stories are, I'm also trying to drag myself away from gaming to something productive. After all, i'm creative, intelligent and stuff and use it to "pwn" online-games. What a waste, i could be rich and stuff by now (not that i favor money in any way). I can feel with you all.
Later, i will meet a really nice woman at work. She is pretty and funny and humorous and stuff and she definitely flirts with me... But so far, she only wanted me to do her work. On the other hand, she showed up at my bureau so often than my colleagues began to talk about... And since the work is done already, i'm really keen on that meeting and totally got no clue what to expect or do.
After all, i have always been waiting for a woman to cross me at my computer and take me with her and to give me the right kick in the backside to do something useful. I'm so nervous...

Lol, don't be nervous be yourself and just go for it and see where it leads!

Tension will kill you. Eighteen months ago I met one of the most amazing women in the world. I can't imagine why she was interested in me, but I knew she was too good for me, and it made me a nervous wreck whenever I was around her. Who knows where we might have gone had I been myself? People seem to like me for some reason; that should have been good enough. I'm still trying to embrace that idea. You just have to forget what others think and take everything as it comes.

Tom Hatfield wrote:Tension will kill you.

Depends what you mean A little bit of tension, ie, chemistry, is an amazing thing but you have to ACT on it or it goes nowhere.

Tom Hatfield wrote:People seem to like me for some reason; that should have been good enough.

One of the biggest things I dealt with while undertaking psychotherapy was how to start liking myself. I knew that people liked me and that I'm a "nice guy" but I never really liked myself enough: I always thought I was rubbish at everything. I know this isn't true but it's still a very hard thing to believe sometimes. I still lack confidence in my own abilities.

Tom Hatfield wrote:You just have to forget what others think and take everything as it comes.

This is the best advice. If people don't like you for who you are, it's their problem not yours. You shouldn't have to change for anyone. Be yourself and people will see it and love you for it.

I believe you gave me some of this advice a long time ago, Gambit.

Weird how we can all be good at giving it, but acting on our own best advice seems incredibly difficult....

Indeed!

Right, I'm done with the packing, the computer is the last thing to do. It's going in a box now and won't come out for a while.

I'm moving to London tomorrow. Good bye everyone -- see you soon! *waves*