DM2 discussion

Suule · Post by **Suule** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:01 am

To be honest. It helps a little bit.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:36 am

Doesn't help Tzan : (

I still say that by the time you realise you need to form a strategy it's already too late, as they are an active increasing menace. Especially in a new game, you will spend ages exploring every single area, tyring to figue out each trap, getinterrupted, try to figyure out each trap, get interrupted, try to fig...get interrupted, try to ...interrupt...try...oh for flip's sake can those minions just LEAVE ME ALONE!

Not fun

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:58 am

Okay, I won the game. how I'm not quite sure. I used aura of speed to cross to the third cloud, almost overshot. I was hit with lightening bolts non-stop. I just cast as about 8 attack minions (guard minions don't help me, they just watch me get attacked). I accidentally ran into Dragoth. So many lightening bolts and explosions that I couldn't see where I was going. I didn't even know it was him, I couldn't make out a figure. Then I saw what looked like a reflector spell and I knew I didn't cast it. I figurred it was him since I read he did that alot. I circled around him and finally saw him from behind with his guard down. I hit him with 2 MON fireballs and the next thing I knew we were watching him tell his master that the champions were stronger than he thought. If you can find the sound files to this game listen to it. It sounds like, one time, Dragoth called his master "Lord Chaos". I did see an area but it wouldn't let me enter it. It looked like a cave or something. I read in another forem that someone pushed Dragoth off the clouds, I might go back and try doing that.

I really think the game would have been alot better wihout so many minions. The note about the minions, don't help at all. While you can run through them, being as they don't block your movement like mosts do, there's just too many of them to allow you to map and look around. Somebody mentioned that the machinery takes away from the mid-evil atmosphere of the game and I agree with that. The graphics are better and the sound/music, but I like the play of DM and CSB better. Though I will have to say dropping through so many floors in CSB got up my nose alot too.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:03 am

What you would ahve missed is if you 'kill' dargoth, he actually runs into the zo portal you couldn't get to. And indeed, itdoes seem to be chaos who punishes him.

Ah well, congratulations! Sorry to see that it was such a labour to finsih it! You can now always check out some of the custom dungeon made for PC, or the clones, that all have the DM/CSB feel instead : )

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:39 pm

You mean there's 2 endings to DMII? I went back and used the Push spell to push him off the cloud but it was the same ending as when I MON fireballed him. Unless it was my minions that killed him before I pushed him. I'll have to try it again. I only sent 8 minions, it's hard to believe that Dragoth was killed that easily. Watching Chaos eat a worm was interesting. Chaos challenging the champions to another fight would leave you to believe another sequel was in the offering, but it seems the author gave up on the series.

Where are the custom dungeons for the PC version of DM? I'd like to try them out.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:42 pm

They are, unsurprisingly, in the custom dungeon forum :) There is a sticky post pointing to the last known dowload sites of all the customs we know about

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:37 pm

Better way to stop minions:
Place two MON-level guard minions outside of every minion portal. Stagger them so that they don't shoot each other. Or put more. They don't disappear unless they die.

Like so:
w = wall
z = zo portal
m = guard minion
_ = empty floor

wwzww
m____
____m
__m__
______

This arrangement would kill spawned attack minions very quickly.

If you've opened the ZO-link, put a giant torch in the entrance. That will keep Dragoth's spawns from leaving while you train in the dungeons.

Alternatively, one could use Kentaro's dungeon editor to simply remove minion generators...

Post by **Ameena** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:43 am

I thought the lifespan of a Guard Minion was limited by the strength of the spell that cast it? So, like, a Lo one would have low hp and a short lifespan (whether it's attacked or not) but a Mon one lasts ages and has more hp?
I only ever use the Porter Minions on the red map so I could well be wrong. Maybe it's only Attack Minions who have a limited lifespan?

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:36 pm

No, the guard minions eventually vanish. You'll have to refresh them every now and then . . . but Mon minions last about two seconds shy of forever, giving you plenty of time to wander. Also, remember to encircle yourself with minions wherever you sleep, and return there to sleep until they wear off.

I find it's useful putting guard minions places where you expect minions to spawn: beside the fire pit on the bottom level is a good place, as evil guard minions will periodically pop up there and prevent the rockies from stoking the furnace. Also, placing minions adjacent to portals (not in front of them) works fairly well.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:59 pm

I tried different ways of attacking Dragoth, but he always ends up running to Lord Chaos and being turned into a worm. I was hoping I could push him off the cloud and battle him below but it won't do it.

I haven't played Chaos Strikes Back since the old Atari days, so I'm playing that one again now.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:14 pm

Lol, good luck - there are a few frustrated threads about playing it then finding the cool stuff - look forward to seeing yours join it : )

Post by **Ameena** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:46 am

I've never bothered with Guard or Attack Minions. I don't normally bother to sleep unless I'm out of mana, in which case (in DM2) I just do it where I am if I'm in the middle of somewhere, and keep an ear out for approaching Minions. But quite often if I need to sleep it's not normally too much of a slog to just go back to the starting area and shut myself in (in the room above the HoC, with the Sun tapestry on the wall and the alcove where I stick all my crap).
And good luck on CSB Tzan

. Have you ever finished CSB? Keep us updated on your progress, won't you

.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:20 pm

beowuuf wrote:Lol, good luck - there are a few frustrated threads about playing it then finding the cool stuff - look forward to seeing yours join it : )

It's been so long since I've played it that there's a lot I don't remember about it. I've been traveling through the NETA side and there's very little I remember about it. I do remember I wasn't ever, not even one time, bombarded with endless minions. LOL The biggest surprise for me regarding DMII is how easy Dragoth was to defeat once you got to him. I really thought, what with the endless minion attacks, that he'd be almost impossible to beat. My saved game #7 is the one saved to battle him. I've battled him toe to toe and he still runs off to Chaos after a little skirmish. One time I fell off the side of the cloud, but other than that he's a poof. No wonder Chaos turned the worm into a worm. I do wish they had kept the horns on Chaos. It also took me awhile to realize that there's no War Cry option.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:29 pm

Ameena wrote:I've never bothered with Guard or Attack Minions. I don't normally bother to sleep unless I'm out of mana, in which case (in DM2) I just do it where I am if I'm in the middle of somewhere, and keep an ear out for approaching Minions. But quite often if I need to sleep it's not normally too much of a slog to just go back to the starting area and shut myself in (in the room above the HoC, with the Sun tapestry on the wall and the alcove where I stick all my crap).
And good luck on CSB Tzan . Have you ever finished CSB? Keep us updated on your progress, won't you .

I never used the minions for sleeping. Several times I've woken up to a minion attack. It was rare I used the guard minions, which was near the end when I did use them. I did use attack minions in several area, one of which in the caverns and that little green pip kept pushing me down a hole. I also used them to see who was friendly or not, like the creatures that stoked the fire. The minions never attacked them so I figured they were needed for something. Later I found some of them stoking the fire. I was amazed at how quickly you could build up your money and gems. I went an bought all that fancy armor only to find out that you can find them latter on throughout the game. At first those rhinos were hard to beat, but by the end of the game I could stand toe to toe with them.

I played CSB when it first came out for the Atari ST, and only that one time. I did finish it, and I think the ending was like that of DM, with the two sides of the Grey Lord joining back into himself as one again. I remember there's an area with a bunch of the red dragons, most of whom were easy to kill. You could get trapped in a room and attacked by several red dragons at once if you weren't careful. I got the champions all up to MON level wizards but never got any up to an Arch Master in anything. I don't know how long that would ever take to do, but I played those games wearing out the disks they came on. I don't think FTL ever made CSB for the PC like they did DM.

Post by **Ameena** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:15 pm

There are two bits with several Dragons. I won't say where they are, though, in case I spoil your surprise.
Once you're playing CSB you should probably make your posts in teh CSB forum rather than this one, since this is the DM2 forum.
I played DM2 again several months ago and I got to Dragoth and the bastard kept killing me (that or I fell off and had to run all the way back up there again from various places, lol). I'll play it again some time soon, probably, when I'm done with Icewind Dale again and stuff...I like killing Thorn Demons once I've got a bit of power - a couple of Mon Fireballs is enough to take one out I think. At least it means food isn't a problem

.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:04 am

I've played the end several times now and it hit me; there's not a clear victory. Dragoth runs back to Lord Chaos in fear and Chaos turns him into a worm, but Chaos threatens Theron's champions.While Dragoth is defeated Lord Chaos clearly isn't.

I found the old coin that came with the original Atari ST version of CSB. I thought that was gone years ago.

Suule · Post by **Suule** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:06 am

I think that's because a sequel was planned. Too bad it was never made.

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Mon May 01, 2006 2:18 am

I consider Stonekeep to be the "unofficial" sequel to DM2. The story is basically the same, even if the characters and setting are different. DM2 differs from DM and CSB in the same way, after all, and even if Wayne Holder's name isn't on the box, the similarities are too obvious to ignore. And it was published by Interplay. Not a coincidence.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:04 am

Suule wrote:I think that's because a sequel was planned. Too bad it was never made.

I was thinking the same thing. Anyone know the reason why it never happened?

Good luck with DM2.5. I just visited your site, it looks like quite an undertaking.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:06 am

Tom Hatfield wrote:I consider Stonekeep to be the "unofficial" sequel to DM2. The story is basically the same, even if the characters and setting are different. DM2 differs from DM and CSB in the same way, after all, and even if Wayne Holder's name isn't on the box, the similarities are too obvious to ignore. And it was published by Interplay. Not a coincidence.

I can see it also as a sequel to CSB too. I noticed Chaos didn't have the horns in DM2 that made him so famous in DM and CSB.

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Wed May 03, 2006 1:41 am

Horns went out of style. Chaos adheres only to haute couture.

Tzan-01 · Post by **Tzan-01** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:39 pm

He eats worms, and he worries about the style of clothing he wears?

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Sat May 27, 2006 3:54 am

"They know I eat worms? My secret is out!"