Runes

[Tom Hatfield]

It wasn't easy deciding in which forum I should post this, because it feels at home in quite a few of them, so I gauged them using an extremely advanced method of selection called the "educated guess." Here are the ratios I established during my first pass.

General Chat — 99%
Creative Endeavors — 87%
Other Clones — 65%
Other Games Like DM — 61%
Gaming News & Chat — 48%
Custom Dungeons — 12%

A second pass was not required because I got bored with it, and Creative Endeavors (for us Yanks) seemed the most likely place to receive valuable feedback. Anyway, this chart has absolutely nothing to do with the post.

So, I'm thinking about a new rune system that's similar to DM yet not the same. I want it to be more logical and intuitive, and I also want it to function as a sort of puzzle in its own right, because in a very real sense DM is a puzzle game. I'm drawing inspiration from two candidates: Stonekeep and Death Gate.

Probably everyone here knows Stonekeep, because it's the only game (besides CSB and DM2 of course) that could be construed as a direct spiritual successor to DM. The rune system was vastly different, as each rune constituted a unique spell, and you could "load" multiple spells in a wand. You could also combine spell runes with "meta-runes" to enhance the effects. Simple, but effective. I like the idea of combing runes, but I want something considerably more sophisticated.

Recently I went on a retro-gaming rampage, getting myself up to speed on all the great CD-ROM adventures Legend released in the mid-nineties. Death Gate was my second victim (after Shannara) and is thus far my favorite. The magic system works on combinations of runes linked together in a specific order, though the linking process itself is automated (just click the name of the spell, and it places runes for you). I like this design considerably more than DM, which lacked any clear connection between runes other than the basic meanings. Still, again this automated system is too simple for my taste.

Your first thought is, why not get rid of the automation? And that's a fine idea, but it isn't quite enough. I want to incorporate rune discovery, a feature that is relatively new to DM clones (but was a fundamental part of Stonekeep). I also want to incorporate spell discovery, where you can make a logical assumption as to how certain runes will behave when drawn in a certain order. This requires that each rune has a special meaning, though the meaning could change depending on which runes are connected to it. That's where the puzzle comes in.

Does anybody have any comments or ideas to share? If I can, I'll get some drawings up depicting some runes and how they connect.

[Sophia]

This sounds neat!

I don't quite understand what you're trying to do-- it seems a bit more far-reaching than just replacing the set of DM runes with alternate runes with different appearances and connotations.

I did something like that, in the mythos of the RPG that is going elsewhere in this board, but it's just reassigning DM runes to different purposes and meanings, not changing the system at its root.

Still, here it is, if you're interested-- http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... ght=#75239

[Tom Hatfield]

I agree with Ameena's suggestions (immediately following) and my own that you should swap black and gray, but otherwise you have a fascinating cosmology here, and I may audaciously borrow bits and pieces of it. It seems heavily influenced by Oriental philosophy.

It's after 11:00 here, and I have work and two classes tomorrow, but I'll try to find time during the day to dig up my old notes and provide a better idea of where I'm going with this idea.

[beowuuf]

I remember coming up with a system (and game mechanic) that was based on shapes I stole from a final fantasy gamebook. I was goign to code it in my attenpts to learn..umm...blitz basic or some such thing, but never got off the ground

The idea of the shapes was the runes you could inscribe with by joining size points using six lines (never the same point twice), This lead to twelve basic shapes, with three mirror image variants. And, of course, you could rotate the shapes around.

By this alone, it gave a simple system that still allowed for some fun experimentation when first playing (or not playing, working out which final shape you haven't drawn yet)

Each rune represented some concept, but then its inverse and rotation altered the meaning. For example, drawing a hexagon on its point was a circle, representing completeness (healing) yet on a flat represented solidity (strengthening/shielding),. And so on

So right there, you had a whole plethora of low level spells that you can explore, call upon and exploit with experimentation.

The interface originally was going to, in real time, blakc out your screen to cast the run, as you manually nominated points, drew the shape, rotated it as you wished, then cast it (all while perhaps getting thumped, or the target moved out of the way in combat)

However, as your experience increased, the black overlay behind would fade to transparent so you could at least see partially, and then the drwn rune itself owuld move until it was nicely in the corner, so you could completely see what was happening.

Then as you got more explerience you would find that when you entered the spell menu the game would slow down further and further, showing you mind becoming faster.

This was also because one of the tricky runes to find, would equate to time (again, sub-socnciously stealing from FF really). Once you mastered it, the you had partially mastered slowing down your personally time to the poitn that spellcasting would freeze the game while you did it

However, the rub was that a) by the time you got to this level of pwer, you would fine you wee too powerful. Without a power run to balance like DM, you are a slave to the inherent power of the spell you are casting - so for example a simply energy spell may well take all your magical (or perhaps life,i wasn't sure) energy to cast now, and be lethally explosive if needed for close quarters

Havign said that, when you mastered the time run would be a turning poitn for the mage anyway - aswell as frezing the game in the spellscreen, you would find you had started to become aware of a second level of spells - one where you had six runes i nthe corners, bound by a seventh ontop!

The idea that there might be a third level that demi-gods and would be more logical that DM in that you wonder what spell Chaos used to create his dungeon, and why you can never get it.

Anyway, so you could nominate six runes in any order, with the binding seventh. This would be a more tailored spell, so well balanced effect versus cost wise, and also allowed for a huge amount of variety when the basic 'do this hing' spells were way too much.

Anyway, that was the idea I had ages ago that I never had a chanceof oing. The initial 12 runes alone would give you an interesting spell system I reckon...