Split from here
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Personally I still found DM2's two handed style made it too easy, and of course there was no logic in being able to have two huge attacks (berzerk with two voraxes?)
If I was still experimenting, I would love to code placing a two handed weapon into your hand would null out your other hand but swap the weapon into a powerful version (as long as you had a free hand) and similarly if you perhaps had two swords in hand then an attack with the one in your action hand, for a good enough fighter, would actually have a bigger attack option that gave two attacks (like a knights double hit)
Things I cculd almost do in CSBwin right now (except for initiating a second attack), that I think you can do in RTC
Split topic from DMJ thread (two weapons)
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From my experience with 2 weapons (I tried 2 longswords too and got along with them quite well, yet I prefer the combination of a bastard sword and a dirk) you can handle 2 weapons quite well after a couple of training sessions. Most people who think you can't do it are paper&pen or computer RPG players only who never held a real sword by themselves. Once you got the basics of swordsplay, it isn't really that hard handling 2 of them swords.
A friend of mine (namely the one who tought me most of my swordfighting skill) plays a celtic berserker on most LARPS he attends to as a PC, and he seems to get along to quite well berserking with 2 weapons (and I mean berserking, literally jumping into the enemy ranks withoug getting hit), so I know it can be done.
Even if you deem 2-weapon-style to be un-DM (althoug it is DM2-like), I see no reason for magical off-hand weapons not to be stat-boosting.
A friend of mine (namely the one who tought me most of my swordfighting skill) plays a celtic berserker on most LARPS he attends to as a PC, and he seems to get along to quite well berserking with 2 weapons (and I mean berserking, literally jumping into the enemy ranks withoug getting hit), so I know it can be done.
Even if you deem 2-weapon-style to be un-DM (althoug it is DM2-like), I see no reason for magical off-hand weapons not to be stat-boosting.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
You can seriously effectively fight with large variants of the weapons one handed x 2? That would be impressive to see (I don't mean combining both weapons into forming a 'single' attack , which I would code anyway, but actually two seperate big attacks)
And off-hands weapons do boost stats in RTC DM, that never went away, did it?
And off-hands weapons do boost stats in RTC DM, that never went away, did it?
Beo: I did performing 2 real bastard swords too, and I don't think combining both weapons into a single attack is a real option. You use both swords, mostly using one of them to parry and lock your opponent's weapon, and the other to riposte.
Off-hand magical weapons boost stats in RTC only with some notable exceptions, that is off-hand wands and staffs (the latter being the classical Gandalf using his staff and the sword Glamdring example) do work, but off-hand weapons like swords including the Vorpal Blade or the Mace of Order ceased to boost stats off-hand a couple or releases ago.
Off-hand magical weapons boost stats in RTC only with some notable exceptions, that is off-hand wands and staffs (the latter being the classical Gandalf using his staff and the sword Glamdring example) do work, but off-hand weapons like swords including the Vorpal Blade or the Mace of Order ceased to boost stats off-hand a couple or releases ago.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
I was wisiting often knight-brotherhood (themed fencing club preforming shows and trainings), and for most people using effectively 2 large weapons is imposible... u need to be strong enough, at least a bit amidextrious, and train a lot, becouse your body moves difrently then with one weapon... those who did where still better with a smaller weapon in the off-hand, and only when the main weapon was sword, so forget 2 voreaxes.
2 bastards, ugh? When I parried a blow with a bastard in my left hand, my arm was dislocated... and I'm not a complite newby... but I admit, I'm strongly right-handed.
2 bastards, ugh? When I parried a blow with a bastard in my left hand, my arm was dislocated... and I'm not a complite newby... but I admit, I'm strongly right-handed.
I'm neither ambidextrous nor exceptionally strong, yet I find its doable, and I am better effectively with 2 weapons than with just one. Of course I was better in it when I trained thrice a week, now being out of training I tire after a couple of minutes. And of course I assume that anybody performing this style will do so with two well-balanced swords that will have their balance point in the hilt and not like some of the many performance weapons available in the point.
What I've also seen albeit its not my style is the combination of a broad-bladed sword of mediocre lenght, with a large hand guard, and a double-bladed, short-hilted axe, along with a buckler strapped to each forearm. The guy who performed this style was very efficient. He used to play an ogre at LARPs and even in the middle of a very experienced NPC orc army surrounding him no one got past his defence (but then for a living he's been melee trainer for the US marines).
What I've also seen albeit its not my style is the combination of a broad-bladed sword of mediocre lenght, with a large hand guard, and a double-bladed, short-hilted axe, along with a buckler strapped to each forearm. The guy who performed this style was very efficient. He used to play an ogre at LARPs and even in the middle of a very experienced NPC orc army surrounding him no one got past his defence (but then for a living he's been melee trainer for the US marines).
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
I prefer a light to medium weight long weapon in dominant hand with a small weapon (or small shield as long as it can be used as stabbing weapon as well; eg: a spiked buckler) off hand.
I'm not too sure about two-handed styles in DM though since it doesn't distinguish between two-handed heavy weapons. Wielding two large axes effectively is just plain silly.
Maybe have the 3rd attack of the primary weapon go 1 level higher if there is a weapon in the secondary hand. I really wouldn't care enough about it to have GG spend time modifying the engine to support it.
I'm not too sure about two-handed styles in DM though since it doesn't distinguish between two-handed heavy weapons. Wielding two large axes effectively is just plain silly.
Maybe have the 3rd attack of the primary weapon go 1 level higher if there is a weapon in the secondary hand. I really wouldn't care enough about it to have GG spend time modifying the engine to support it.
What I think is missing from all such debates that I have read are the strenght rating of the character wielding the weapons.
If a character with 50 strength can wield two weapons of weight X then a character with strenght 100 should be able to wield two weapons of weight 2x. Since fighters in games like these develop legendary strength ratings, they should eventually reach levels even beyond what most people can do with highish amount of training with weapons in the real world. Particulary with strength increasing magic.
To counter this effect I think shields should give much more defense than they currently do. Experts in weaponfighting could perhaps tell us how often it is the shield that blocks an attack and how often it is the armor. I have the impression that the shield is worth much more than is common in computer games. I could be very wrong...
However, it would give a very good balance vs two weapon fighting if the defense loss was very substancial.
Another thing missing is the weight of the character wielding the weapons. The heavier the weapon are compared to the person wielding them, the more difficult it is. The speed with which you move the weapon times the weight gives the mass-speed(not sure of the english term). The higher the weight of the character, the more mass-speed will he be able to handle. You could argue that strength roughly represent weight though.
Also since I'm in the mood I'd like to throw in arm length for cutting/slicing weapons. The longer your arms, the longer the weapon accelerates before it hits the target. This means a slower attack but more powerful. I don't think it's that much slower since when the weapon has traveled the same distance the speed has been built up considerably so the extra distance will be covered very fast. Could be decisive though. The longer reach is naturally also a benefit, maybe particulary with a large shield that you can bashing the opponent away with?!?
When fighting multiple opponents the shield's defense should be reduced(halved?) but not the armor.
Also many weapons can be used to parry attacks with. That means imo that they have a defense value. Why is this never present in games? The weapon's defense value should also be reduced according to how many attackers there are. By 1/2 with two enemies, 2/3 with three enemies etc. (same for shields) Meeting more than one enemy should be *wastly* more dangerous.
Ah well. This was just some general ranting so don't take it too seriously. I don't
If a character with 50 strength can wield two weapons of weight X then a character with strenght 100 should be able to wield two weapons of weight 2x. Since fighters in games like these develop legendary strength ratings, they should eventually reach levels even beyond what most people can do with highish amount of training with weapons in the real world. Particulary with strength increasing magic.
To counter this effect I think shields should give much more defense than they currently do. Experts in weaponfighting could perhaps tell us how often it is the shield that blocks an attack and how often it is the armor. I have the impression that the shield is worth much more than is common in computer games. I could be very wrong...
However, it would give a very good balance vs two weapon fighting if the defense loss was very substancial.Another thing missing is the weight of the character wielding the weapons. The heavier the weapon are compared to the person wielding them, the more difficult it is. The speed with which you move the weapon times the weight gives the mass-speed(not sure of the english term). The higher the weight of the character, the more mass-speed will he be able to handle. You could argue that strength roughly represent weight though.
Also since I'm in the mood I'd like to throw in arm length for cutting/slicing weapons. The longer your arms, the longer the weapon accelerates before it hits the target. This means a slower attack but more powerful. I don't think it's that much slower since when the weapon has traveled the same distance the speed has been built up considerably so the extra distance will be covered very fast. Could be decisive though. The longer reach is naturally also a benefit, maybe particulary with a large shield that you can bashing the opponent away with?!?
When fighting multiple opponents the shield's defense should be reduced(halved?) but not the armor.
Also many weapons can be used to parry attacks with. That means imo that they have a defense value. Why is this never present in games? The weapon's defense value should also be reduced according to how many attackers there are. By 1/2 with two enemies, 2/3 with three enemies etc. (same for shields) Meeting more than one enemy should be *wastly* more dangerous.
Ah well. This was just some general ranting so don't take it too seriously. I don't