smoothen original DM graphics as addon for CSBwin?
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smoothen original DM graphics as addon for CSBwin?
...hmmm, just thought about...
while fixing the hint oracle for me on the PPC I tried out CSBwin (out from the Part I-III *.rar package of Conflux III) and thought: "uuhh... it looks so much better on the PPC just because of the pixelsize, why is there no antialiasing mode in CSBwin?" And back to my mind came a long lost thought about making the 320 x 200 look nicer on a modern Desktop PC with those modern LCD Flatscreens without exccesive use of an complex anti-aliasing algorithm.
Please keep in mind, that I'm not a computer geek, so my thoughts may seem childish.
Lets say you would like to increase the resolution to 1280 x 800 pixels. Streching the original 'dotpile' without enlarging the pixels to ugly squares (the old TV attached to the Atari would just use every second line and displayed a pixel as a dot rather than a square) would result in something looking like that:
(it is needed to copy/paste the ASCII 'art' into an Editor with fixed spacing!)
o___o___o___o___o___o
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
o___o___o___o___o___o
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
o___o___o___o___o___o
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
o___o___o___o___o___o
(o = Pixel)
Giving all of the 64000 pixies a name and and adressing their new x/y position, then drawing 4 lines (N E S W) between all dots interpoling the color difference on each pixel of the added lines would result in:
o---o---o---o---o---o
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
o---o---o---o---o---o
Between 4 pixels, there will be 9 black pixels left:
(for 960 x 600 it would be 4, for 640 x 400 it would be 1)
___
___
___
Using openGLs option to drag a nicely interpoled color-rectancle with 4 dots + their colorinformation would of course have saved you from drawing the lines at all, but in any case the dungeon (grey) would optically 'melt' with for example a monster, producing the look of early *.jpg images.
Lets still stick to the lines, additionally connecting all the dots diagonally:
o---o---o---o---o---o
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|
o---o---o---o---o---o
leaving 4 free (unpainted black) pixels _in_ every square, replacing the 2 pixels at the beginning and end of a line with black ones + interpol the overlapped diagonal lines (dot in the middle of a square) would result:
from:
o---o
|\_/|
|_X_|
|/_\|
o---o
to:
o_o_o
_o_o_
o_o_o
_o_o_
o_o_o
This would produce an ST-like look (ok - without killing every second line), buts still the 'melting effect' dungeon<->monster is there of course. (Again it would have been much easier creating the same result drawing the colored interpol-rectancle in openGL, then blacken every second pixel)
To eliminate the melting or at least make it look smoother it has to be judged if a line is drawn or not.
And this is where it starts to get complicated.
First thought was to detect large color differences (--> return null to draw_interpolline)
or (if possible) detect the mask of the monster/decal so it can be directly judged which pixel belongs to the dungeon and which one belongs to the object in the dungeon. (avoiding: gray pixel from golem = gray pixel from dungeon)
Assuming this or any way of drawing a virtual mask around the monster, decal, etc. using the lines that surround each orig pixel would work, doing it blindly could result in:
D___D___D___D___D___M
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/___/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_/___/_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/___/__|
D___D___D___D___M___M
|\_/|\_/|\_/___/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_/___/_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/___/__|/_\|
D___D___D___M___M___M
|\_/|\_/|___|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|___|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|___|/_\|/_\|
D___D___D___M___M___M
(D = Dungeon)
(M = monster, decal, etc)
Between the monster and the dungeon a black line made of staight horizontal/vertical and 45° diagonal lines will appear, likely looking ugly.
Approaching the screen as it pops out of CSBwin or doing the smootening before dungeon and monster/items/decals marry surely makes a difference, avoiding the black line, but keeping the mentioned step-like look on the standalone dungeon, monster, etc. plus having to dig into the code before the dungeon is put together. Also the dungeon frame has to done in another way than the ingame menu (spells/wepons/chars), but let's say the screen is threatend as a whole and not seperately - used as an addon for CSBwin.
Maybe you code-wizard can hack in a nice routine withhin 30 minutes. I can't judge it, I'm a lame coder. Avoiding the 90°/45° step-look from dungeon to item and viaversa surly is the hardest part, maybe even with the need to vectorice the grafic using the 'extended' pixels of a monster as hooks for drawing the connecting line, avoiding 45° steps.
What existing tools could be used to make the original DM grafix look better?
Maybe its enough to just increase the resoltion to 800x600, then forcing the grafic card to antialiase the window for an satisfiing result, I haven't tried yet. Maybe a better approach would be to try to emulate/recreate the Atari screen output as mentioned above. I remember the ST emulator PacifiST did this quit nicely without ressorce eating calculations from the graca.
greetings
T0Mi
while fixing the hint oracle for me on the PPC I tried out CSBwin (out from the Part I-III *.rar package of Conflux III) and thought: "uuhh... it looks so much better on the PPC just because of the pixelsize, why is there no antialiasing mode in CSBwin?" And back to my mind came a long lost thought about making the 320 x 200 look nicer on a modern Desktop PC with those modern LCD Flatscreens without exccesive use of an complex anti-aliasing algorithm.
Please keep in mind, that I'm not a computer geek, so my thoughts may seem childish.
Lets say you would like to increase the resolution to 1280 x 800 pixels. Streching the original 'dotpile' without enlarging the pixels to ugly squares (the old TV attached to the Atari would just use every second line and displayed a pixel as a dot rather than a square) would result in something looking like that:
(it is needed to copy/paste the ASCII 'art' into an Editor with fixed spacing!)
o___o___o___o___o___o
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
o___o___o___o___o___o
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
o___o___o___o___o___o
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
o___o___o___o___o___o
(o = Pixel)
Giving all of the 64000 pixies a name and and adressing their new x/y position, then drawing 4 lines (N E S W) between all dots interpoling the color difference on each pixel of the added lines would result in:
o---o---o---o---o---o
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
|___|___|___|___|___|
o---o---o---o---o---o
Between 4 pixels, there will be 9 black pixels left:
(for 960 x 600 it would be 4, for 640 x 400 it would be 1)
___
___
___
Using openGLs option to drag a nicely interpoled color-rectancle with 4 dots + their colorinformation would of course have saved you from drawing the lines at all, but in any case the dungeon (grey) would optically 'melt' with for example a monster, producing the look of early *.jpg images.
Lets still stick to the lines, additionally connecting all the dots diagonally:
o---o---o---o---o---o
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|
o---o---o---o---o---o
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|/_\|
o---o---o---o---o---o
leaving 4 free (unpainted black) pixels _in_ every square, replacing the 2 pixels at the beginning and end of a line with black ones + interpol the overlapped diagonal lines (dot in the middle of a square) would result:
from:
o---o
|\_/|
|_X_|
|/_\|
o---o
to:
o_o_o
_o_o_
o_o_o
_o_o_
o_o_o
This would produce an ST-like look (ok - without killing every second line), buts still the 'melting effect' dungeon<->monster is there of course. (Again it would have been much easier creating the same result drawing the colored interpol-rectancle in openGL, then blacken every second pixel)
To eliminate the melting or at least make it look smoother it has to be judged if a line is drawn or not.
And this is where it starts to get complicated.
First thought was to detect large color differences (--> return null to draw_interpolline)
or (if possible) detect the mask of the monster/decal so it can be directly judged which pixel belongs to the dungeon and which one belongs to the object in the dungeon. (avoiding: gray pixel from golem = gray pixel from dungeon)
Assuming this or any way of drawing a virtual mask around the monster, decal, etc. using the lines that surround each orig pixel would work, doing it blindly could result in:
D___D___D___D___D___M
|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/___/|
|_X_|_X_|_X_|_/___/_|
|/_\|/_\|/_\|/___/__|
D___D___D___D___M___M
|\_/|\_/|\_/___/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|_/___/_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|/___/__|/_\|
D___D___D___M___M___M
|\_/|\_/|___|\_/|\_/|
|_X_|_X_|___|_X_|_X_|
|/_\|/_\|___|/_\|/_\|
D___D___D___M___M___M
(D = Dungeon)
(M = monster, decal, etc)
Between the monster and the dungeon a black line made of staight horizontal/vertical and 45° diagonal lines will appear, likely looking ugly.
Approaching the screen as it pops out of CSBwin or doing the smootening before dungeon and monster/items/decals marry surely makes a difference, avoiding the black line, but keeping the mentioned step-like look on the standalone dungeon, monster, etc. plus having to dig into the code before the dungeon is put together. Also the dungeon frame has to done in another way than the ingame menu (spells/wepons/chars), but let's say the screen is threatend as a whole and not seperately - used as an addon for CSBwin.
Maybe you code-wizard can hack in a nice routine withhin 30 minutes. I can't judge it, I'm a lame coder. Avoiding the 90°/45° step-look from dungeon to item and viaversa surly is the hardest part, maybe even with the need to vectorice the grafic using the 'extended' pixels of a monster as hooks for drawing the connecting line, avoiding 45° steps.
What existing tools could be used to make the original DM grafix look better?
Maybe its enough to just increase the resoltion to 800x600, then forcing the grafic card to antialiase the window for an satisfiing result, I haven't tried yet. Maybe a better approach would be to try to emulate/recreate the Atari screen output as mentioned above. I remember the ST emulator PacifiST did this quit nicely without ressorce eating calculations from the graca.
greetings
T0Mi
Last edited by T0Mi on Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
There might be some hope that the
graphics could be manipulated at the
very last moment. The entire image
is built by the original Atari code which is
totally impenetrable. It is all done
in the old '4-plane' graphics mode of
the Atari, much like the four bit-plane
mode of the VGA card.
I wrote the program that then takes the
320x200 image and turns it into 4-bit
pixel data and then into 16-bit
pixel data and duplicates the pixels for
larger images. That code is almost
understandable although it is, I think,
still in assembly language on the PC.
It was written to work fast enough to
take only a few percent of the CPU time
on a 166MHz Pentium I. Therefore, a lot
could be done on modern machines that
are twenty times faster.
If you were to convince me that people
would like the result of applying some
algorithm to this image, I would be willing
to implement it (at least as an option).
What you would need to do is to specify the
algorithm and provide 'before and after'
examples of screenshots from the game
itself.
I have to say that I don't mind the square
pixels at all. But I do enjoy:
graphics could be manipulated at the
very last moment. The entire image
is built by the original Atari code which is
totally impenetrable. It is all done
in the old '4-plane' graphics mode of
the Atari, much like the four bit-plane
mode of the VGA card.
I wrote the program that then takes the
320x200 image and turns it into 4-bit
pixel data and then into 16-bit
pixel data and duplicates the pixels for
larger images. That code is almost
understandable although it is, I think,
still in assembly language on the PC.
It was written to work fast enough to
take only a few percent of the CPU time
on a 166MHz Pentium I. Therefore, a lot
could be done on modern machines that
are twenty times faster.
If you were to convince me that people
would like the result of applying some
algorithm to this image, I would be willing
to implement it (at least as an option).
What you would need to do is to specify the
algorithm and provide 'before and after'
examples of screenshots from the game
itself.
I have to say that I don't mind the square
pixels at all. But I do enjoy:
occasionally.doing the smootening
- Parallax
- DMwiki contributor
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:56 pm
- Location: Back in New Jersey
My first thought was: It will look blurry.
Now, for modern clones, the way to go (although it's a lot of work) is probably to redo the graphics at a higher resolution, either by using the old graphics as a base and manipulating the stretched images with photoshop to make them look good at the higher resolution, or just to restart from scratch, as Linflas has done with his Forest of Doom dungeon for RTC. Of course, he is only going for a 640x480 resolution, but the same thing could be done for 1280x960 or any other format (widescreen? it seems to have become ubiquitous with the recent world laptop takeover) you might want. And yes, I know, it's an awful lot of work.
Now, for modern clones, the way to go (although it's a lot of work) is probably to redo the graphics at a higher resolution, either by using the old graphics as a base and manipulating the stretched images with photoshop to make them look good at the higher resolution, or just to restart from scratch, as Linflas has done with his Forest of Doom dungeon for RTC. Of course, he is only going for a 640x480 resolution, but the same thing could be done for 1280x960 or any other format (widescreen? it seems to have become ubiquitous with the recent world laptop takeover) you might want. And yes, I know, it's an awful lot of work.
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
I love how in RTC the scaled graphics in the distance look so sharpened, even though they are the same low res graphics.
Anythign that could make even that small improvement would be quite cool and make the old DM graphics look fresher
And yes, I agree, CSBwin is for the retro feel, though tweakign the old graphics would be welcome.
If you want hi resolution graphics support, definitely the newer engines are the way forward. That and finding people to do that work!
Anythign that could make even that small improvement would be quite cool and make the old DM graphics look fresher
And yes, I agree, CSBwin is for the retro feel, though tweakign the old graphics would be welcome.
If you want hi resolution graphics support, definitely the newer engines are the way forward. That and finding people to do that work!
thanks for your replies, I'm learning alot about the progress that has been made in times I've been away from DMgaming.
So it would be much less time consuming to use a modern clone that already can handle 16 bit *.bmp with 640x400... (never seen anything beyond CSBwin and CSBwinCE, remember I'm all new to this)
what it -could- look like:
original size, cool for PPC:
same with screen size x4 on the PC:
and punishing it with Photoshop:
(All pics are 16 bit *.bmps, just to put them online they were converted to *.jpg)
Of course this are advanced filter techniques, it would be much easier to use "force antialiasing in any window" if your grafic card supports it (mine doesn't) to get at least a bit smoothening.
@Paul: you see an way to include the antialiasing option that Direct3D or openGL offers?
Anyway I'm willing to redo all of the DM grafics the way seen above, if you like, but I'm no expert in Photoshop (in fact, this has been the first time I used it longer than 5 minutes), still if someone can supply me with the original *.bmp from DM or conflux and knows a way to implement them in say 640x400 or 1280 x 800, I'm eager to do this.
greetings
T0Mi
So it would be much less time consuming to use a modern clone that already can handle 16 bit *.bmp with 640x400... (never seen anything beyond CSBwin and CSBwinCE, remember I'm all new to this)
what it -could- look like:
original size, cool for PPC:
same with screen size x4 on the PC:
and punishing it with Photoshop:
(All pics are 16 bit *.bmps, just to put them online they were converted to *.jpg)
Of course this are advanced filter techniques, it would be much easier to use "force antialiasing in any window" if your grafic card supports it (mine doesn't) to get at least a bit smoothening.
@Paul: you see an way to include the antialiasing option that Direct3D or openGL offers?
Anyway I'm willing to redo all of the DM grafics the way seen above, if you like, but I'm no expert in Photoshop (in fact, this has been the first time I used it longer than 5 minutes), still if someone can supply me with the original *.bmp from DM or conflux and knows a way to implement them in say 640x400 or 1280 x 800, I'm eager to do this.
greetings
T0Mi
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
mainly a mild aquarell option followed by some smoothing/antialiasing,
but I fear I would have to reinstall PS (it's an old v7.0) in English to exactly tell you which filters can produce this result.
But it were just a few clicks.
I tried some monsters as standalone (without dungeon) too, and it was much more difficult to get a nice look.
It would be needed to modify every monster/item specificly because one filter pattern won't look good on all of them.
[graphics removed because of puplic nudity (rope anyone?)]
@wuuf: I will try to figure this out. If it can handle 16bit bmp to be ripped into/from a graphics.dat (now finally got this spelled right... #-) used for modern clones, it would be wonderful.
(But I fear it won't be that easy...)
greeting
T0Mi
but I fear I would have to reinstall PS (it's an old v7.0) in English to exactly tell you which filters can produce this result.
But it were just a few clicks.
I tried some monsters as standalone (without dungeon) too, and it was much more difficult to get a nice look.
It would be needed to modify every monster/item specificly because one filter pattern won't look good on all of them.
[graphics removed because of puplic nudity (rope anyone?)]
@wuuf: I will try to figure this out. If it can handle 16bit bmp to be ripped into/from a graphics.dat (now finally got this spelled right... #-) used for modern clones, it would be wonderful.
(But I fear it won't be that easy...)
greeting
T0Mi
Last edited by T0Mi on Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
EDIT:
in case you wondered about the standalone monsters without knowing any modern tools: they were taken out of a very old picture I created back in '98 running through DMI on PacifiST screenshooting, then erasing all dungeon pixels by hand.
Here they are as a whole:
you might notice (enlarge it), that a basic antialiasing already was done (10 years ago!)
unmodified:
in case you wondered about the standalone monsters without knowing any modern tools: they were taken out of a very old picture I created back in '98 running through DMI on PacifiST screenshooting, then erasing all dungeon pixels by hand.
Here they are as a whole:
you might notice (enlarge it), that a basic antialiasing already was done (10 years ago!)
unmodified:
- linflas
- My other avatar is gay
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:58 pm
- Location: Lille, France
- Contact:
all those blurry things have already been done for DMJava : get DMJava, addons 0.1 and 0.2 and see what you can do with them instead of restarting from scratch.
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=50
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=50
- Parallax
- DMwiki contributor
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:56 pm
- Location: Back in New Jersey
Mild acquarell? I doubt CSBWin could do that every frame on-the-fly, if it can at all. Interpolation schemes are probably your best bet, and maybe blur is not going to be too significant if you're restricted to 16 colors? That would be interesting to see. A smoothing of the lines rather than graphical enhancement. It might look weird since there is no way you're going to add detail that way but I'd be curious to see the results.
- Gambit37
- Should eat more pies
- Posts: 13715
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
- Location: Location, Location
- Contact:
I have to agree with others here:
1) Making things blurry to improve them is simply... silly and pointless.
2) Trying to get such imagery into CSBWin is impossible.
3) If you want better quality images (ie, higher res) you need to create them from scratch and use one of the more modern engines such as RTC or DSB.
CSBWin is an impressive piece of work, but sometimes you have to know when to let go of the past and move on.
In my opinion, part of the charm of DM in the modern age is aresult of the lower res imagery. It's retro by default and looks great.
1) Making things blurry to improve them is simply... silly and pointless.
2) Trying to get such imagery into CSBWin is impossible.
3) If you want better quality images (ie, higher res) you need to create them from scratch and use one of the more modern engines such as RTC or DSB.
CSBWin is an impressive piece of work, but sometimes you have to know when to let go of the past and move on.
In my opinion, part of the charm of DM in the modern age is aresult of the lower res imagery. It's retro by default and looks great.
I'll check out DM Java.
For those who like the smoothening/blurring (yes, like me ) there are small (driver related) apps out there on inet which force advanced 2D antialiasing/filtering in any window, regardles of its content. For the very nostalgic look I'll suggest using an old TV attached to the graca TV-out.
greeting
T0Mi
For those who like the smoothening/blurring (yes, like me ) there are small (driver related) apps out there on inet which force advanced 2D antialiasing/filtering in any window, regardles of its content. For the very nostalgic look I'll suggest using an old TV attached to the graca TV-out.
greeting
T0Mi
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
I am willing to try some sort of
convolution function on the 320x200
viewport. But nothing much more
complicated than that. And I doubt
you would want anything more than
a 9-point function.
We simply CANNOT do any filtering
ahead of that (like as a monster is
being added to the scene).
Anyway, if you demonstrate a simple
function that you think improves matters
significantly, I'll try to implement it.
Different folks defintely see things
differently.
convolution function on the 320x200
viewport. But nothing much more
complicated than that. And I doubt
you would want anything more than
a 9-point function.
We simply CANNOT do any filtering
ahead of that (like as a monster is
being added to the scene).
Anyway, if you demonstrate a simple
function that you think improves matters
significantly, I'll try to implement it.
Different folks defintely see things
differently.
nostalgia surly is a topic of it own.
I'm happy you're in!
Please stand by (I have some very busy days at work ahead of me), actually I have an idea how to generate a look that eliminates the ugly VGA squares generating the original Atari look quite nicely, without having to implement any complex algorithms that take away the original look and feel many hardcore DM geeks (oops, reminds me of something... ) prefer.
greeting
T0Mi
I'm happy you're in!
Anyway, if you demonstrate a simple
function that you think improves matters
significantly, I'll try to implement it.
Please stand by (I have some very busy days at work ahead of me), actually I have an idea how to generate a look that eliminates the ugly VGA squares generating the original Atari look quite nicely, without having to implement any complex algorithms that take away the original look and feel many hardcore DM geeks (oops, reminds me of something... ) prefer.
greeting
T0Mi
ok, first try...
taken from CSBwin: conflux III window size x2:
doing the next logical step:
Much closer to the Atari than VGA pixels IMHO and just by killing every second line. so simple.... I LOVE IT !
Unfortunately converting it to *.jpg (for uploading) darkens the picture alot more than just the ereasing does. But anyway tuning up the gamma manually wouldn't be a bad idea, producing a additional bloom effect on a standard Monitor.
ok... I'll see what has to be done next, sb.
greez
T0Mi
EDIT:
I'll poke on been wierd, but firstoff some more linelo... eh killing:
orig x3:
http://hometown.aol.com/TToommii/DM/gra ... x3kill.jpg
with just a tiny bit of cheating (lines in godmode):
http://hometown.aol.com/TToommii/DM/gra ... x3kill.jpg
created from a doublekill:
http://hometown.aol.com/TToommii/DM/gra ... x3kill.jpg
taken from CSBwin: conflux III window size x2:
doing the next logical step:
Much closer to the Atari than VGA pixels IMHO and just by killing every second line. so simple.... I LOVE IT !
Unfortunately converting it to *.jpg (for uploading) darkens the picture alot more than just the ereasing does. But anyway tuning up the gamma manually wouldn't be a bad idea, producing a additional bloom effect on a standard Monitor.
ok... I'll see what has to be done next, sb.
greez
T0Mi
EDIT:
I'll poke on been wierd, but firstoff some more linelo... eh killing:
orig x3:
http://hometown.aol.com/TToommii/DM/gra ... x3kill.jpg
with just a tiny bit of cheating (lines in godmode):
http://hometown.aol.com/TToommii/DM/gra ... x3kill.jpg
created from a doublekill:
http://hometown.aol.com/TToommii/DM/gra ... x3kill.jpg
Last edited by T0Mi on Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Just returned from another busy day at work, finally completed a project that was started in March last year. With success, so I feel a bit lighthearted right now! (Beware )
I may have a free day tomorrow spending some time to do DM related things (maybe even play?) but I fear I'll have to figure out more RL stuff than I actually like to.
People call me wierd often. In fact they call me wierd that offen, it utterly feels normal.
I came to conclusion that it doesn't make any sense to try to have a 'straight line' in life, simply because the world isn't straight. So living vegan, being -owned- by horses and driving a ex-army chevy as a daily doesn't bite. Compared to some workmates from Fraunhofer Institute and the Research Group of Daimler who could calculate the temperature of the universe 1s after BB while taking a shower using their fingers on the fogged glass I'm just a average geek anyway. I can do a lot of stuff quite well, but never managed to get a single ability archmastered.
But I do have painted a pixel dragon as a pet you might like:
(original from ES of TEX, taken out of the Super Neo Show)
(he needs to be smoot(h)end, yes. I'll get a sponge and some dispersent)
so we found the way back to the pixel here:
In my initial post the described methods are merely creating a basic antialiasing having the 'blurry' look so much disliked. Also it would be very timeconsuming to test various manual modifications, even on a very minimized part of the dungeon (let's say a hand or keyhole). I could not do it on the whole 320x200 without using code and spending months to get back to programming. As there are programms out there that force advanced antialiasing/filtering it wouldn't make sense to add it as an option.
After having offended everyone with the monster pics, I anyway would really like to hear the honest opinions and suggestions of the nostalgian DM geeks here; how you would like to have the original graphics modified without enlarging the amount of information and keeping the original look and feel. I can't believe you actually -like- the VGA pixel look of a x4 sized screen, do you?
my suggestions are pointed out already:
For screen size x2 its simply enough to erase every second line. It won't get any closer to the Atari.
Take a look at the details: for example the scroll on the right of the screamer: VGA pixels create a sharp 4-square rhomb, while in the modified pic, it just looks natural. (at least for me: as I first tried it, looking at the chars hands there was just one thought on my mind: ATARI !)
The emulator PacifiST used a similar 'technique' to come closer to the original look of the ST.
( http://www.atari.st/pacifist/ the page is badly outdated, as is the emulator). Modern emulators like STeem use the linekilling at least in fullscreen mode too - because simply the Atari did. I really would like to have the option of "ST-look" at least in windows size x2. For screen size x3 I'd suggest to add a another line with reduced brightness (ex. RGB 777 turned down to 444) just below the surviving original line.
greeting from Germany
T0Mi
I may have a free day tomorrow spending some time to do DM related things (maybe even play?) but I fear I'll have to figure out more RL stuff than I actually like to.
People call me wierd often. In fact they call me wierd that offen, it utterly feels normal.
I came to conclusion that it doesn't make any sense to try to have a 'straight line' in life, simply because the world isn't straight. So living vegan, being -owned- by horses and driving a ex-army chevy as a daily doesn't bite. Compared to some workmates from Fraunhofer Institute and the Research Group of Daimler who could calculate the temperature of the universe 1s after BB while taking a shower using their fingers on the fogged glass I'm just a average geek anyway. I can do a lot of stuff quite well, but never managed to get a single ability archmastered.
But I do have painted a pixel dragon as a pet you might like:
(original from ES of TEX, taken out of the Super Neo Show)
(he needs to be smoot(h)end, yes. I'll get a sponge and some dispersent)
so we found the way back to the pixel here:
In my initial post the described methods are merely creating a basic antialiasing having the 'blurry' look so much disliked. Also it would be very timeconsuming to test various manual modifications, even on a very minimized part of the dungeon (let's say a hand or keyhole). I could not do it on the whole 320x200 without using code and spending months to get back to programming. As there are programms out there that force advanced antialiasing/filtering it wouldn't make sense to add it as an option.
After having offended everyone with the monster pics, I anyway would really like to hear the honest opinions and suggestions of the nostalgian DM geeks here; how you would like to have the original graphics modified without enlarging the amount of information and keeping the original look and feel. I can't believe you actually -like- the VGA pixel look of a x4 sized screen, do you?
my suggestions are pointed out already:
For screen size x2 its simply enough to erase every second line. It won't get any closer to the Atari.
Take a look at the details: for example the scroll on the right of the screamer: VGA pixels create a sharp 4-square rhomb, while in the modified pic, it just looks natural. (at least for me: as I first tried it, looking at the chars hands there was just one thought on my mind: ATARI !)
The emulator PacifiST used a similar 'technique' to come closer to the original look of the ST.
( http://www.atari.st/pacifist/ the page is badly outdated, as is the emulator). Modern emulators like STeem use the linekilling at least in fullscreen mode too - because simply the Atari did. I really would like to have the option of "ST-look" at least in windows size x2. For screen size x3 I'd suggest to add a another line with reduced brightness (ex. RGB 777 turned down to 444) just below the surviving original line.
greeting from Germany
T0Mi
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
See what you think of
http://dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/CSBwinBlur.exe
in x4 mode.
It is not really a 'Blur'. No detail is lost.
The origianl pixels are present.
I simply interpolated the intermediate points.
There are some rounding artifacts in large
areas that are suppost to be the same color.
http://dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/CSBwinBlur.exe
in x4 mode.
It is not really a 'Blur'. No detail is lost.
The origianl pixels are present.
I simply interpolated the intermediate points.
There are some rounding artifacts in large
areas that are suppost to be the same color.
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Ignore the x2 mode. It is the x4 mode that
I did the bilinear interpolation on.
bits per color. Rounding is pretty obvious.
I did the bilinear interpolation on.
Zyx wrote:see a kind of dotted grid on flat surfaces
This was all done in 15-bit color mode with only 5Paul Stevens wrote:There are some rounding artifacts in large
areas that are suppost to be the same color
bits per color. Rounding is pretty obvious.
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
sorry folks...
Tax investigation payed me a visit yesterday morning at 8:00 am. Big bad guys in black robes. Well, not really, but it was a -very- unpleasent experience to have those Gestapo sniffing around my private property, personal papers and computers. I have to figure this out, hoping they won't kick my ***.
I'll be back.
T0Mi
Tax investigation payed me a visit yesterday morning at 8:00 am. Big bad guys in black robes. Well, not really, but it was a -very- unpleasent experience to have those Gestapo sniffing around my private property, personal papers and computers. I have to figure this out, hoping they won't kick my ***.
I'll be back.
T0Mi
- Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4318
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
The screen is divided. Into the pieces used
during gamepaly. It was done to re-arrange
the pieces for differently-shaped screens
(like the PocketPC, for example).
If I were to release this blurring feature,
I would have to turn it off except during
gameplay (the '3d' viewport screen).
Also, the right edge and bottom edge need
a tweaking of some sort. I guess I would
pretend that the non-existent pixels to the
right and bottom are black.
during gamepaly. It was done to re-arrange
the pieces for differently-shaped screens
(like the PocketPC, for example).
If I were to release this blurring feature,
I would have to turn it off except during
gameplay (the '3d' viewport screen).
Also, the right edge and bottom edge need
a tweaking of some sort. I guess I would
pretend that the non-existent pixels to the
right and bottom are black.