Obama Won

[Broken_Paladin]

So Obama won pretty much in a landslide, I'm curious what does everyone else think of this?

[ian_scho]

What with the economy as it was, a Presidential candidate that's too old to legally hold a paying job (in Spain), and the sublimely chosen word 'Change' used in Obama's campaign - it was inevitable.

Whoever would get it though, it is going to be one of the toughest administrations to handle yet. I wish Obama luck - he'll need it!

[Adamo]

I hope he will clean a mess left after two cadencies of ignorance.
Interesting, that most of educated people (esp. scientists) vote Democrats.
If the elections were in Poland, Obama gets ~65%; if in Germany, Obama gets ~85%.
I also like McCain very much as the Vietnam veteran (he was imprisioned in a war camp). But, if I was American, I would vote for Obama.

But I didn`t care much about the elections, because both candidates were sensible, comparing to Bush jr.

[ian_scho]

Yeah, much repect to McCain.

[Trantor]

One word: hooray!

That said, McCain would also have been a much better president than Bush I think. Still, my vote would have been for Obama, like almost every other German (as Adamo said).

[Broken_Paladin]

Well obama i must say is a really good speaker which was suprising to me. I think what really got him the most votes he wanted to end the war + give tax breaks to the lower income people.
McCain's vice president palin unno something just didnt feel right about her.

[sucinum]

I don't think it makes a big difference internationally, so i couldn't really care and i'm glad the campaign is over. It was very overrepresented in germany, even more than our own votes. Might be a good thing for black people, though.

[zoom]

you should use "afro-american people" instead

[Gambit37]

you should use "afro-american people" instead

Why? My girlfriend is black and is not "afro-american". It's perfectly acceptable to use the word "black".

[Broken_Paladin]

I concur with gambit.

I wonder why american news never covers other countries elections, but other's cover ours? I always found that to be odd.

[Sophia]

Obama could actually be considered "Afro-American" because his father was from Africa. For other black people, though, it seems like political correctness gone mad.

Either that, or you should say Afro-British, Gambit.

[beowuuf]

I'm more in the camp that wants to go 'nice one' to Gambit for dropping his single status again, and don't care the skin colour of her nor who won the election

[cowsmanaut]

well, in terms of why other countries are interested in america, yet not the reverse. Why does Iran have interest in Iraq, or why does Armenia have an interest in what goes on in turkey, etc. A country will who has an unstable history with another country will always keep a wary eye. Because the USA is an unstable country on whole prone to go to war with just about anyone over resources under the banner of righteousness.. everyone keeps a wary eye.

Canada in pre-worldwar days was attacked a few times, they "liberated" the phillippines only to hold them captive and start shooting them until they killed about a million or so and started to calm down.. but you know.. they were educating them. then they were busy during the world war 1 thing even though they entered late to that party.. they went into a depression and then world war II came along and ended the depression, people had a purpose again and money arrived.. sure it's borrowed.. but it helped stabilize their economy and drop their unemployment rate down to 2%.. war helped stabilize the country despite it costs so many lives and so much money... they took this new found knowlege and then they proceeded to attack.. hmm..

Korea
Guatemala
Cuba
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Chile
Panama
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Lebannon
Afghanistan
Iran
Iraq
Pakistan
Serbia

I'm sure the list is still growing.. and each attack had one reason presented through the press and another under reason under the presidents desk.

With a hit list like that, and especially with George bush doing the old bait and switch with Osama and Sadam. It's quite a worry that someone with that little brains be allowed to be in control of that many guns.

Don't get me wrong, there are many fantastic and enlightened Americans. Just happens that they are the minority. The question I keep asking myself.. is how did Canada and USA come from essentially the same origins and yet turn out so different? We Canadians are often reffered to as the passifist tree huggers. We are teased often, though somewhat lovingly, we are rarely ever threatened or bombed on our own soil.. Yet I don't think many people much care who the Prime Minister is outside of Canada.. maybe people along the border of the US or those who have family in canada.. or those hoping to move to Canada.. but thats only logical. Canada is nice, and is not a threat, we send soldiers with guns they are not allowed to shoot.. and so few people worry about us or our government.. The US... well, there is a very good reason why many of those traveling from the US will put a canadian flag on their backpack instead of their good old red white and blue..

I may sound jaded, but really, history speaks for itself here.

and yes...That's not the only reason people care who is president.. but it's a big one.

[Broken_Paladin]

Cow that is one of the most thought out and intelligent responses I have seen on the forum.
Well hopefully Obama will focus more on fixing up the economy and not so much as spending millions on a war.

[Sophia]

Because the USA is an unstable country on whole prone to go to war with just about anyone over resources under the banner of righteousness

Oh, please. You're completely blowing it out of proportion.

Ok, let's get this out of the way: I don't like the Bush administration. I was against the Iraq war. That said, that's one war carried out by one administration. That does not make the USA the main source of evil in the world, or whatever.

they "liberated" the phillippines only to hold them captive and start shooting them until they killed about a million or so and started to calm down.. but you know.. they were educating them.

Meanwhile, Canada was a loyal subject of the British Empire, which was pursuing colonialist policies that would've made the most hawkish of US neocon sick.

then they proceeded to attack..

You make it like these were all unprovoked invasions carried out purely for the sake of aggression. I'm not going to parrot the old cold war line, or try to defend every war (particularly anything related to Vietnam), because you do have a partial point-- however, it's not black and white. The fact remained that the USSR was a lot nastier than the USA, and they had a lot of guns too. Other countries could remain "pacifist" because the USA was the one who took up the guns to scare the USSR into (at least somewhat) behaving itself. We've got members from Poland, if you want to ask them what happens when the USSR gets its way. Maybe people here from France and Germany could answer that question firsthand too had the USA decided to be "pacifist."

Don't get me wrong, there are many fantastic and enlightened Americans. Just happens that they are the minority.

I think it's fair to say that "fantastic and enlightened" people are the minority in any country.

[Adamo]

Sophia wrote:

however, it's not black and white

no, it was black and grey. America was never a perfect country (especially in `40s and `50s), but still the best one on the world.
During the cold war, USA used the "soft power" with successes; USSR had to use propaganda and military.

Now, after Bush jr, USA lost its "soft" power. I hope Obama and Democrats fix it so that the World once again start to love USA, freedom and their way of life.

As for the Poland:
At the end of the war, yet before the "cold war" had started, there were a series of deals between USA and USSR, so that USA sold us (middle Europe) under Soviet`s influence. Western Europe was agreed for USA influence. Well, bad luck for us. Damn geography!

[Lunever]

You know why there's never been a putsch in the USA? Because there's no American embassy around

[sucinum]

Still consider that Obama won because of the financial crisis and not because he is so much more pacifist than McCain. In terms of warfare and diplomacy, i don't think the difference is too large between both. Neither of them can go and simply shut down Guantanamo or retreat from Iraq from one day to another.
What speaks for Obama are his tries to establish more of a social market economy like we have in germany. It's a shame for a rich country to not have this, pure capitalism can't work nowadays. That is because 1 human produces enough to keep 5 or more satiated, dressed, equipped and supplied with service, that makes 4 unemployed (or employed in very low jobs, which happens a lot in the US, there are people whose job is to open doors, pack your shoppings or keep shops open during all the night with very few customers). And this ratio will change even more in future with better technology and stuff. Money for the social system strenghtens the whole economy, because it is spent very quickly.
But that isn't really a reason for the rest of the world to cheer up, because it doesn't touch us. For us, Obama is a symbol and a president we can love, and that's the only difference to McCain. I'm confident McCain would have surprised positively, while Obama has a hard time to keep up with the expectations.

[Trantor]

May I just go with Beo on congratulating you, Sir Gambit?

[Gambit37]

I got back with my GF just recently and while it's all very nice, there is that conversation* hanging unsaid, so don't congratulate me too soon! Could go either way!


*The one about future kids.

[cowsmanaut]

just to not leave it unsaid.. The UK underwhich Canada did indeed hold it's connection to, has been far better at establishing a negotiated withdrawl from occupied countries as opposed to slaughtering wholesale.

It is indeed fair to say that every country has had it's petulant stage. It's simply a matter of how long and to what degree. Keep in mind that as your closest neighbours and subject to your constant media, we are well aware of what is going on, however it's often supplimented with unbiased reports of what is actually occuring. So many in the bloody army are so eager to to blow crap up that it includes allies. Accidental.. no, just stupidity, and arrogance. How often are we completely missrepresented in both the US media and word of mouth? there are still people who ACTUALLY think we have snow up here 24/7 and they can see dogsled races in any town. WTF? I could understand someone from Uganda thinking that.. but people who can just travel 3 hours by car to prove what is really here, or even switch to a canadian channel.. GAH!!! There is a big "Don't know, don't care" attitude about the world sitting there at the core and it makes it even more dangerous when there is a history of potential for violence.

I didn't even go into what happens within the country. I mean the sheer panic of some at the though of a black president.. good lord.

To get back onto the immediate part of the topic. I think it's a step forward and I think it's something that will be talked about for ages after. However, who knows what he's going to do with the country.. could be good, could be bad. The majority of those political A-holes lie through their teeth to be elected and then sit through their full term anyway.

I hope for a positive new future, I hope for a future where the world on whole is more aware of eachother. Where we can all be happy and work towards the idea of a positive future as a world on whole. Not just as humans, but as a world.. animals, plants and all. Chances of that happening seem to be more and more slim, but I'll have the hope until death......... I hope..

Yes, every country has it's idiots.. yes.. but it doesn't change my statement. USA has people who don't want to go to war, who like other countries, and not all of them are imigrants. Though those are the most likley to be like that, because they grew up elsewhere, or their parents did. It offers a different perspective after all..

I could go on and on about this.. but suffice it to say, while I don't place USA as the ultimate of evil, I think a lot of the people who have been in power are just as bad as any "evil" leader in other countries to date.

[Sophia]

The UK underwhich Canada did indeed hold it's connection to, has been far better at establishing a negotiated withdrawl from occupied countries as opposed to slaughtering wholesale.

You mean like the India/Pakistan partition?

it's often supplimented with unbiased reports of what is actually occuring.

Or reports that are simply biased in a different direction.

there are still people who ACTUALLY think we have snow up here 24/7 and they can see dogsled races in any town. WTF?

Yes, there are people here who are ignorant about the world at large. There are people like that everywhere.

I think a lot of the people who have been in power are just as bad as any "evil" leader in other countries to date.

"Just as bad"? Come on.

Bush is not good, but his successor has been elected and he'll step down. Name me one "evil" leader worth anything who would even allow that to happen. Never mind the fact that I can sit in the USA on an American internet connection and feel perfectly safe posting about how bad the current president and political situation is.

[Paul Stevens]

I think we should resurrect the Amiga
versus Atari discussion. But without
name calling.

[Broken_Paladin]

Intellivision all the way paul

[Lunever]

So, Obama is the Amiga? Or the Amigo? Or the Ami go home? Ah no, the latter is already George W.
McCain could be the Atari . Now I'm trying to figure out which machine might befit George W. in this metaphor, but then, not a single one of those old machines is primitive enough to fit in.

Southpark put it quite well once: America needed George W. for a single purpose: He made people all around the world hate him personally instead of hating the American people. However, it seems many people around the world see Obama as an opportunity to normalize relationship with the US.

PS: How evil a leader is, should not be primarily defined by how he comes into and out of power, rather the most important factor should be how many blood he has on his hands. GWB has a lot of that, and if there was such a thing as international jurisidiction, he should be tried as a war criminal and be hung on the same noose as Saddam Hussein did.

[sucinum]

I think we should resurrect the Amiga
versus Atari discussion. But without
name calling.

Doesn't really work, because Obama has better sound and more color than McCain

[Sophia]

America needed George W. for a single purpose: He made people all around the world hate him personally instead of hating the American people.

I wish that were always the case. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't make a distinction between "America" as a whole, and American leaders, regardless of how unfavorable they are. As cows put it, there are more than a few Americans who feel the need to misrepresent their country of origin due to the unfair biases and prejudices of people they may encounter abroad.

How evil a leader is, should not be primarily defined by how he comes into and out of power, rather the most important factor should be how many blood he hes on his hands. GWB has a lot of that, and if there was such a thing as international jurisidiction, he should be tried as a war criminal and be hung on the same noose as Saddam Hussein did.

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/monsters.htm

Don't blow it out of proportion. He's got a way to go there, too. Though, in all honesty, I too would very much like to see a trial once he's out of office. Sadly, it'll never happen.

[Adamo]

Why does 90% of highly educated people vote Democrats? Because they represent Civilisation, Science and Culture.

Democrats believes that the universe had started from a "Big Bang" billons years ago and humans evolved from primitive life forms.
Democrats wants to spend more money on the education.

Republicans believes that world was created about 6000 years ago by God in 7 days and humans were created in a moment...
Republicans wants to spend more money on the army.

That`s the difference.

[Paul Stevens]

Let us hope that Mr. Obama can stimulate
the good folks in the U.S. to rise up and
force their representatives to DO SOMETHING.
Mr. Bush was able to do things that we did
not want done simply because Congress
refused to do their job for fear of losing a
contribution or a vote.

P.S. Sorry----I voted for Mr. Bush as the
lesser of two evils. I now think I was wrong.
At any rate, I voted for Mr. Obama this time
(as the better choice rather than lesser evil)
and have my fingers crossed that I got it
right.

[Sophia]

Why does 90% of highly educated people vote Democrats?

This statistic has been tossed around, mostly by partisan Democrats trying to characterize all Republicans as stupid. I've not seen any actual substantiation for it anywhere-- the real political landscape is, as you could probably guess, far more nuanced.

Here's a rather complex analysis: http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=945

Because they represent Civilisation, Science and Culture.

If by "they" you mean highly educated people, sure. However, if you mean the Democrats, keep in mind that a large amount of their constituency is also disaffected urban poor who are every bit as intolerant as the stereotypical right-wing Republican hillbilly.

That`s the difference.

What you've broken down here is the difference between a secular and a creationist viewpoint. It's fundamentally a religious, not political divide. However, it's true the religious divide carries over into politics. Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians who do believe in what you've outlined as the "Republican" position make a powerful political group within the Republican party, as evidenced by the rise to power of social conservatives like Mike Huckabee and Sarah Palin.

After the beating they received in the 2008 election, the Republicans are going to have to decide if they are going to abandon some of their more untenable platforms and go back to a message of fiscal conservatism and small government (something that might resonate well with Americans sick of being $10 Trillion in debt); or continue along this rather unfortunate road.