I'm finding a severl level of dissapointment in todays game industry.
I took the time to buy and play through force unleashed. It is quite possibly the most buggy game I've ever played on a console. I cannot imagine how little time must have been spent fixing issues or even playtesting it to allow it out the door so majorly damaged... and yet, I took the time to finish because I found the story interesting and the artwork kind of nice.
I figured they would sit down and try to fix some of the bugs. Well time has passed and a few updates were in fact put out and just recently the ps3 store presented a new expansion containing a jedi temple quest. for 10 bucks I could download it and play it.. this means they don't need to pay advertising, nor packaging and distribution just means a fee to sony from their store which is likely to be the same as any other retail. So after avoiding all the rest of that overhead.. you would think that 10 bucks should give me something out of what a retailer can still sell at 40 and make a profit from. so.. 1/4 of a game at least is what I expect.. and in fact it should be at least 1/3rd since there is no packaging etc.
it was one small level with a very lame set of puzzles.. the thing lasted me a mere 15 mins to play through.. and then stopped suddenly.
Not only that, but the update has done nothing to fix the problems I saw before.. in fact it seems to have made it WORSE.. the game CRASHED by simply moving the cursor on the menu screen!!?? through out the game rendering errors were presented as flashing red and purple objects as the lighting screwed up and clipping flipped on and off displaying items behind others.
You see, before thinking through the other overhead costs they avoided. you might be able to say ok you get what you pay for.. it's 10 bucks it's not going to be great... but then you still have to compare what little content they give you in comparison to another expension. Ratchet and clank released their quest for booty. They had all new levels and puzzles, a whole story element and was also roughly the same cost. The game seemed to have no bugs or rendering issues. It had plenty of voice talent and little cut scenes. It also had a lot more to do it it than this force unleashed. Hell at the most I think force unleashed should have offered this for free due to the fact that they screwed so many of us by releasing an incomplete game to start with. Or at the very least fix the numerous issues with it already!!
Lucas arts is by far.. NOT a small helpless little company. It's a large company with a lot of money. It also appears to be a company that no longer cares about quality.. just a little flare and packaging and sell it anyway..
GAHH.. I feel so ripped off!
Your moneys worth...?
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cowsmanaut
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cowsmanaut
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Gambit37
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Game companies seem to think that all game playing consumers have a sign on them saying "Bugger me rigid, any which way --I'll take it all, I'm not fussy."
On the one hand games are being released with what seems to be more bugs than ever; and on the PC at least, some draconian anti-piracy software that forces you to activate by the web and limits your installs.
Then on the other, games take so long to develop, that studios are 'keeping back' some of the content from the full game then releasing it as DLC (downloadable content). So you pay more to get the full game you should have got in the first place -- and it's still buggy!
The same thing has happened with Tomb Raider Underworld. I'm a long term fan of the games (well, the original Core Design ones at least) but won't be buying this game: full of bugs and half the game seems to have been offered as DLC for XBox 360 owners ONLY.
The industry is vanishing up it's own backside.
On the one hand games are being released with what seems to be more bugs than ever; and on the PC at least, some draconian anti-piracy software that forces you to activate by the web and limits your installs.
Then on the other, games take so long to develop, that studios are 'keeping back' some of the content from the full game then releasing it as DLC (downloadable content). So you pay more to get the full game you should have got in the first place -- and it's still buggy!
The same thing has happened with Tomb Raider Underworld. I'm a long term fan of the games (well, the original Core Design ones at least) but won't be buying this game: full of bugs and half the game seems to have been offered as DLC for XBox 360 owners ONLY.
The industry is vanishing up it's own backside.
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cowsmanaut
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see, that's it exactly.. you see them screw you.. and you get angry.. and then you see someone else not screwing you which makes you even more angry about being screwed!! because it proves there is no reason for it AT ALL!!
The games industry alone takes home more cash than TV and Movies.. possibly even combined!
The small companies have a hard time making it in the industry of moguls who will crush them or buy them and even from gamers like ourselves who simply say screw this, I'm getting the hacked version. These big companies talk a big talk make their cash and even if you return the game and yell at the top of your lungs.. they don't much care.. they got enough morons to make the initial purchase to cover the cost and make a profit. Not only that but returning the game doesn't hurt their pocket. heck in many cases not even buying the game might not hurt their pocket if they sold enough copies to the stores.. Though that's only a short term gain, because the next time they make a game, no one will want it on their shelves..
and like I said, this doesn't just apply to games, we're seeing the same in movies and TV and music.. you can buy an album with only one decent song on it which may have been over played by the time you buy it.. Tv shows that hook you in and then just trail off into maddness.. Movies which show all of their best in the trailer and so it's not even work going to the theater for.. because let's face it.. that one line was only funny the first 20 times you heard it on TV..
Music right now is dominated by the "let's repackage some old tune" syndrome. Or if you want more orriginality.. they'll rip a few samples from a song you do like and then just talk crap over it.. with a bunch of "uhn.. uhn.. yeah yeah.. uh huh uh huh.. watch me.. uhn"
not bloody likely..
The entire entertainment industry is primed for a revolution.. people turn to underground gaming and music, webisodes of their latest home brewed TV series.. Starved for something different and engaging. Rather than the same tripe we had last year only slightly different colour package..
uff
The games industry alone takes home more cash than TV and Movies.. possibly even combined!
The small companies have a hard time making it in the industry of moguls who will crush them or buy them and even from gamers like ourselves who simply say screw this, I'm getting the hacked version. These big companies talk a big talk make their cash and even if you return the game and yell at the top of your lungs.. they don't much care.. they got enough morons to make the initial purchase to cover the cost and make a profit. Not only that but returning the game doesn't hurt their pocket. heck in many cases not even buying the game might not hurt their pocket if they sold enough copies to the stores.. Though that's only a short term gain, because the next time they make a game, no one will want it on their shelves..
and like I said, this doesn't just apply to games, we're seeing the same in movies and TV and music.. you can buy an album with only one decent song on it which may have been over played by the time you buy it.. Tv shows that hook you in and then just trail off into maddness.. Movies which show all of their best in the trailer and so it's not even work going to the theater for.. because let's face it.. that one line was only funny the first 20 times you heard it on TV..
Music right now is dominated by the "let's repackage some old tune" syndrome. Or if you want more orriginality.. they'll rip a few samples from a song you do like and then just talk crap over it.. with a bunch of "uhn.. uhn.. yeah yeah.. uh huh uh huh.. watch me.. uhn"
not bloody likely..
The entire entertainment industry is primed for a revolution.. people turn to underground gaming and music, webisodes of their latest home brewed TV series.. Starved for something different and engaging. Rather than the same tripe we had last year only slightly different colour package..
uff
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cowsmanaut
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actually, that's another interesting observation since it points out very clearly that we do enjoy to hear, see, read, play the same game/music/movie/etc again and again. It's not about someone doing a cover of a song, or a remake of a movie. It's about them doing it right.. ie faithful to the original.
However, at the same time, we don't much like it when that's all there is. I mean nostalgia can only carry you so far.
but really, many of us love classical music or even just those golden oldies, many people play games like chess which has been around for ages, fairy tale novels are still favorite books to some of us.
I guess it's a fine line.. a clear one.. but a fine one all the same.
It's a bit like a big game of rock paper scissors.. if everyone draws rock they all lose. Ie if every company is doing a remake at the same time.. you get a pissed off audience
However, at the same time, we don't much like it when that's all there is. I mean nostalgia can only carry you so far.
but really, many of us love classical music or even just those golden oldies, many people play games like chess which has been around for ages, fairy tale novels are still favorite books to some of us.
I guess it's a fine line.. a clear one.. but a fine one all the same.
It's a bit like a big game of rock paper scissors.. if everyone draws rock they all lose. Ie if every company is doing a remake at the same time.. you get a pissed off audience
When you say 'even if you return the game it dones't hurt their pocket' is even more true when lots of game stores (at least I've heard in america) will happily buy the games you hate for a small amount, then sell them again at almost full price
Also, let's not forget the culture of micropayments now every console is connected to the net for more content that before would have made it into the original release
Also, let's not forget the culture of micropayments now every console is connected to the net for more content that before would have made it into the original release
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Sophia
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It's even worse from a reselling standpoint than what beo says. Forget about getting little money. You just can't do it!
Stuff like Steam is all DRMed to hell and back now, and you have to use a one-time activation key to connect it to an online account. You can't resell it, because in order to play it, you have to make it uniquely yours.
Now that I own TOB (the orange box) I own it forever. This is good if I lose my DVDs or something. But I can't resell it or anything-- the activation key for those DVDs is forever linked to my Steam account.
Stuff like Steam is all DRMed to hell and back now, and you have to use a one-time activation key to connect it to an online account. You can't resell it, because in order to play it, you have to make it uniquely yours.
Now that I own TOB (the orange box) I own it forever. This is good if I lose my DVDs or something. But I can't resell it or anything-- the activation key for those DVDs is forever linked to my Steam account.
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Gambit37
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The customer has always had first resale rights of anything they own: we always could resell our dvds, games and music if we chose to. Until now, of course. DRM has changed all that.
It used to be that we owned what we bought. Not any more; now, we just own a licence to use it in the way the manufacturer deems is 'acceptable'. Hey marketing buddy guy, it's ain't acceptable for me that I can't install this crappy game on more than one computer, or that I can't listen to this song on 4 different devices.
F you and the horse you rode in on. And that's kinda what we're doing (!). People are turning away from these new ownership models in droves. Spore f'd user's rights big time and look at the fallout. But iTunes and Amazon are now offering DRM free MP3s because users demand it. Consumers still rule, and as Cows pointed out, we still hold the cards -- kinda.
Stand up for your love rights! Or something.
It used to be that we owned what we bought. Not any more; now, we just own a licence to use it in the way the manufacturer deems is 'acceptable'. Hey marketing buddy guy, it's ain't acceptable for me that I can't install this crappy game on more than one computer, or that I can't listen to this song on 4 different devices.
F you and the horse you rode in on. And that's kinda what we're doing (!). People are turning away from these new ownership models in droves. Spore f'd user's rights big time and look at the fallout. But iTunes and Amazon are now offering DRM free MP3s because users demand it. Consumers still rule, and as Cows pointed out, we still hold the cards -- kinda.
Stand up for your love rights! Or something.
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Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
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Not 'kinda'.--- Absolutely. Those cardswe still hold the cards -- kinda
are called dollars here in Madison. For
example, I refuse to buy any TV service
(Cable or satellite) because of the trash
the networks produce. I have to get
along without a few football games that
I would like to watch. But I am playing
my cards. I use the money I am saving
to pay the extra price to have all my
electricity come from wind-power.
I refuse to rent any of the new movies
because of the trash. I joined Netflix and
watch GREAT movies made in the 20's
through 60's. For about $1.50 each!
Watched Robert Mitchum and Marilyn
Monroe last night. I use the money I
save to buy organic fruit/vegetables
from a local grower.
Computer games? Hah! Why spend
good money when you know from
experience what you will get.
Computer software? There is open-source
software to do almost anything you like.
If it were not for CSBwin/CSBuild, I would
be running Linux.
Etc. Everyone holds the cards in their
purse. Now if only we could get people
to play those cards.
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MasterWuuf
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Started to watch the video game awards/peeks, last night, but knew it was surely going to be a lame duck program when the host walked out in nerdy underwear. Then he introduced an attractive young lady, who also walked out in her underwear bottoms and a shirt. She also looked nerdy (at least to me).
I decided to flip back to it later, to give the program a chance to draw my attention. Sadly, the host was just coming out with a plaid old-timey suit, doing some lame duck dance. He invited someone 'older than dirt' to join him on the stage. After this old guy limped up on the stage, they exchange funny lines (which got about 10 people in the audience to laugh), and the host danced a little more seriously.
If the games are introduced, and on national television, with intent to put the watchers to sleep, it's no wonder that many of the newer games aren't truly 'ready for sale' when they hit the stores.
I decided to flip back to it later, to give the program a chance to draw my attention. Sadly, the host was just coming out with a plaid old-timey suit, doing some lame duck dance. He invited someone 'older than dirt' to join him on the stage. After this old guy limped up on the stage, they exchange funny lines (which got about 10 people in the audience to laugh), and the host danced a little more seriously.
If the games are introduced, and on national television, with intent to put the watchers to sleep, it's no wonder that many of the newer games aren't truly 'ready for sale' when they hit the stores.
"Wuuf's big brother"
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cowsmanaut
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the question I always have, is why are so many willing to be screwed? I mean so many of us know we are getting into a situation that sets a precident. People buy and play world of warcraft and age of conan and everquest.. even though it's a game you not only do not own, but can't even play without paying every single month. For your hard earned cash, you get the occasional new content now and again... but really what you are saying is that I am willing to put an arcade machine in my house and keep feeding it quarters. Despite the fact that there are many out there that are free to play.
Seriously, look at the numbers.. people who buy the game HAVE to go through the companies own server.. if you try to set up your own server to play it's a violation and you can be arrested!!?? and we support this?? how screwed up is that? So with that control and their monthly cost hmm let's see 15 bucks a month. multiplied by more than 11 million users a month. last I checked it didn't cost 165000000 to run your own server. it's about $80 a month for 4000gb bandwidth. so unless they are using 2062500 servers every month.. I think they are making a tidy profit every month... that's at least a billion dollars a year profit even if they are running 500 servers. Just for one game!
can you imagine having to pay a 3 bucks every single time you wanted to watch Batman Begins? you decide, yeah I'd like to watch that again, and so you go to your DVD player and rather than having the DVD to play, you just select it from a list.. and then you have 3 bucks deducted from your account. Sounds crazy right? Except that it's already happening. Download on demand.. movies you can download and watch and then it deregisters and is gone. Kind of like renting the movie from blockbuster.. only you never had to go to the store.
people keep taking it up the hoop and companies keep giving it to us. So long as they make enough profit to do this to us. the more they will take from us.
Seriously, look at the numbers.. people who buy the game HAVE to go through the companies own server.. if you try to set up your own server to play it's a violation and you can be arrested!!?? and we support this?? how screwed up is that? So with that control and their monthly cost hmm let's see 15 bucks a month. multiplied by more than 11 million users a month. last I checked it didn't cost 165000000 to run your own server. it's about $80 a month for 4000gb bandwidth. so unless they are using 2062500 servers every month.. I think they are making a tidy profit every month... that's at least a billion dollars a year profit even if they are running 500 servers. Just for one game!
can you imagine having to pay a 3 bucks every single time you wanted to watch Batman Begins? you decide, yeah I'd like to watch that again, and so you go to your DVD player and rather than having the DVD to play, you just select it from a list.. and then you have 3 bucks deducted from your account. Sounds crazy right? Except that it's already happening. Download on demand.. movies you can download and watch and then it deregisters and is gone. Kind of like renting the movie from blockbuster.. only you never had to go to the store.
people keep taking it up the hoop and companies keep giving it to us. So long as they make enough profit to do this to us. the more they will take from us.
Try Virtualbox. I run on a windows host and various other OSes as guest. Works great.Paul Stevens wrote:If it were not for CSBwin/CSBuild, I would be running Linux.
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Parallax
/mophus.png)
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In all fairness: Bugs were a very common 'feature' in games ever since I've played computer games. To state that bugs are more common than ever today is not accurate. Second, the main concern for software companies is not getting the game to be good, it's getting the game to be OUT. No matter how great, if you don't get that game out of development and onto store shelves, it isn't earning you a dime. The costs for developing games are skyrocketing, like it or not.
Yes, you can make a great game with a small budget, and no, that's not the dominant model, currently.
You (and I) are not OWED good, bug-free games. In fact, we aren't owed games at all. They put out a product, set the price, you choose to buy it or not. Vote with your wallet, as Paul said.
Personally, I've completely shifted to free flash games. There's plenty to go around, some of them are really engrossing, and I was never a fan of flashy graphics anyways (edit: flash isn't falshy, ironic, eh?). Usually I have to view an ad, then I get to play for free. Fine by me.
As for paying to watch movies, you have mentioned that it's like renting from a movie store without getting out of the house. So I'm confused. Are you against movie rentals (a model that has been going on since VCRs took off back in the dinosaur era)? Are you against not having to step out? Are you against movie theaters too? I do not see the problem here.
Yes, you can make a great game with a small budget, and no, that's not the dominant model, currently.
You (and I) are not OWED good, bug-free games. In fact, we aren't owed games at all. They put out a product, set the price, you choose to buy it or not. Vote with your wallet, as Paul said.
Personally, I've completely shifted to free flash games. There's plenty to go around, some of them are really engrossing, and I was never a fan of flashy graphics anyways (edit: flash isn't falshy, ironic, eh?). Usually I have to view an ad, then I get to play for free. Fine by me.
As for paying to watch movies, you have mentioned that it's like renting from a movie store without getting out of the house. So I'm confused. Are you against movie rentals (a model that has been going on since VCRs took off back in the dinosaur era)? Are you against not having to step out? Are you against movie theaters too? I do not see the problem here.