Handling large maps / invisible teleporters

[Gambit37]

Elsewhere on the forum we discussed that it's very difficult to use the RTC editor to manage large maps, as it's virtually impossible to use the map zoom popup when targetting items to activate.

I have some issues with this in Maze of Zagor and have split the maps up accordingly, adding stairs between levels to get around this problem (in the gamebook there are no such stairs).

I was wondering if there's a way of managing map connections using invisible teleporters. I tried a few things but it's clear it becomes very difficult to manage -- you have to account for thrown spells, thrown objects and monsters moving around. With invisible teleportters, objects just vanish unexpectedly which is clearly bizarre. I tried to manage it on corners to get around this problem, but that introduces its own problems.

Has anyone found a way of doing this that makes sense for the player? I could really do with making my maps smaller, it's getting really difficult to use the editor to build my target connections.

[Gambit37]

Actually for Maze of Zagor, I think I'm going to take some artistic licence and break the levels up more, with stairs down at the end of each main "chunk". I like this as it make each level more compact and gives a sense of progression to the player than can be otherwise lost in a big sprawling single level. I think that's one reason why DM2 felt strange, there was no real sense of progression in the outside part.

Anyway, I'd still be interested to hear if anyone has solved this problem of large maps.

[Trantor]

I haven't solved the problem and agree that creating invisible teleporters is nothing more than an emergency solution. For what it's worth, I think adding stairs is a good idea, it gives everything more structure.

[Gambit37]

I see a lot of work ahead -- moving my maps around into their own small levels is going to take quite some time! Arse, I should have done that from the beginning...

[Trantor]

And another wish for the "copy more than one tile at a time"-feature...

[ian_scho]

Can you create a 5 length corridoor, and when they step on the center square you teleport them to the next level with the same layout of course.
Next with this teleport/trigger you have to teleport all of the objects (in the 5 squares) in front and behind the champions to the next level. You'd be right that it looked strange if they started casting fireballs though[+]! Not a place for monsters to wander into.

[+] I'd assume that it's just another object, in DSB.

[Lai]

i have build same thing like ian_scho tolds.
it works good and are very fine way to jump into another level.
sure, if the player throw something the spell/item will disappear but i dont
know why every player should throw or cast something at this place.
its good to dont integrate monsters in this area, and nothing else to do

[Gambit37]

I don't think that works very well for my dungeon. Monsters have the freedom to roam where they please (even up and down stairs) and if I used your method and was following a monster or a thrown item, I'd see it disappear in front of me.

Anyway, in the end I broke down my file into lots of 32x32 levels. It took a lot of work using a text editor to get everything right! It also means that levels don't exactly line up anymore so I've used some sneakly teleporters on stairs to move you around -- it might look like you only stepped down one level, but in fact you might have been teleported 5 levels down It's gonna make the map makers among you a bit crazy

[Sophia]

I've used some sneakly teleporters on stairs to move you around -- it might look like you only stepped down one level, but in fact you might have been teleported 5 levels down

So if you put a teleporter and stairs on the same square in RTC, the teleporter takes precedence? Interesting. Does it handle it correctly if you're standing on the stairs and you turn?

[Lai]

oh, if its needed for the atmosphare u wish at your dungeon that the monsters could walk everywhere u right, its not a good way.otherwise i used to block areas with invisible monster teleporter if i want to have it monster-free.

while i read "Anyway, in the end I broke down my file into lots of 32x32 levels" i realize you have obvious build very huge ones. it seems that the size do matter yet...like my gilrfriend told me every singel day
HEHE


the thing with teleporter at stairs seems to be nice too

[Gambit37]

So if you put a teleporter and stairs on the same square in RTC, the teleporter takes precedence? Interesting. Does it handle it correctly if you're standing on the stairs and you turn?

Depends on the order they are laid down. Topmost is activated first. And no, it doesn't work exactly the same, you can't turn on the stairs so the behaviour is different and you still need the corresponding stairs on the level below to avoid Editor warnings -- plus another teleporter hack to return any thrown items to the player (otherwise they disappear into the stairs and you can't them back). Bit of a fudge but works well enough -- and the same setup allows monsters to follow you, too