Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Uh, wide-eyed cute little swordwielding manga princesses with a dungeon master title above. Not sure how much that might have to do with DM actually, but if they were available in English they could be a source to scavenge a bit of rpg material.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
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Gambit37
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
As far as I can tell they are just manga-style interpretations of the gameplay of DM and DM2. Probably wouldn't tell you anything you don't already know.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Maybe so - but I'm a good scavenger 
I bet I could find something useful there if I just could read them.
Does anyone have the japanese ones?
I bet I could find something useful there if I just could read them.Does anyone have the japanese ones?
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
The real question for DM2 is...is it set in the future of the DM world, or is it set in the future of a different world? It's unquestionably the future - the fact it's a sequel, but also Chaos was loose (as shown at the end) means it must have happened after somehow Chaos was properly loosened again. If you take Theron's Quest into account, the Grey Lord knew some day he would die, or 'die', and set up Theron to be his successor. My take is that the Grey Lord somehow gets turned into Chaos without the split (you see that briefly with CSB in the manual and game).
If DM2 is set in the same world, and Dargoth and LC are not jumping around worlds/dimensions, then we have the name of the DM world - the sorta uninspring Zark.
I say you can use the DM2 items to extrapolate passed events. The clans would exist for centuries, and the families of many would stretch back.
Spoiler:
If DM2 is set in the same world, and Dargoth and LC are not jumping around worlds/dimensions, then we have the name of the DM world - the sorta uninspring Zark.
I say you can use the DM2 items to extrapolate passed events. The clans would exist for centuries, and the families of many would stretch back.
Spoiler:
Spoiler
I've pushed Dargoth's origins, family history and oblique link to Chaos in my current game
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Hmm, gotta read through the DM2 manual first. But generally the outcome of CSB might be that Chaos as a person has been banished to the nine hells. I ditch my idea of introducing asmodeus as a new force of evil ans stick to LC. Dargoth was a minion then sent to open the Gate for LC. DM2 takes place in the near future of CSB, but also in a technically more advanced region. Not sure about the suggestion that Theron succeeded the Grey Lord, since Theron is not a highlord. But maybe GL retreated once and for all in his lab and Theron is now the representing lord of the castle.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Well, I think if the supposition that, although the High Lords are a separate race (and I know that was my thinking, so I think it's backed up by the language of the DM manual) with a natural disposition to ascend, there would still be the D&D mechanism of normal mortals able to ascend and join their ranks. I believe Theron's Quest mentions as a background someone (Warrior or wizard) that joined the High Lord ranks.
I would set the DMII items in the future. Why? Because anything available in DM2 will be available to the players automatically. If there's a region with 'steampunk' equipment and contraptions, then why can't they go there and use it, or even come from there? If it's in the future, you don't have to deal with that, but you can still have fun paying homage to the things that it will grow into.
Since whisdain was killed, we know the High Lords can die. So perhaps the Grey Lord does die, but somehow the essense of Chaos is preserved. I still prefer the thought that Lord Chaos can completely submerge the other half of the Grey Lord if the Grey Lord looses control, effectively killing the Grey Lord if this loss of control was something major. I like this idea, because it of course still means the Grey Lord could be brought back if Chaos himself is somehow beaten and subdued in return.
Spoiler:
I would set the DMII items in the future. Why? Because anything available in DM2 will be available to the players automatically. If there's a region with 'steampunk' equipment and contraptions, then why can't they go there and use it, or even come from there? If it's in the future, you don't have to deal with that, but you can still have fun paying homage to the things that it will grow into.
Since whisdain was killed, we know the High Lords can die. So perhaps the Grey Lord does die, but somehow the essense of Chaos is preserved. I still prefer the thought that Lord Chaos can completely submerge the other half of the Grey Lord if the Grey Lord looses control, effectively killing the Grey Lord if this loss of control was something major. I like this idea, because it of course still means the Grey Lord could be brought back if Chaos himself is somehow beaten and subdued in return.
Spoiler:
Spoiler
This might come into play at some point very soon in my game
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Actually DM2 isn't that far advanced that I'd call it steampunk. It doesn't contain that much that worlds that include magic-infused late-rennaisance technology, like Eberron and Forgotten Realms, don't have either. There are the Warforged in Eberron (though I don't know much else about that world), and in the Forgotten Realms there are the Lantanese engineers who follow Gond, god of mechanics, and there are the Halruan alchemists with their airships.
Most items in DM2 are normal arms and armour, like in DM1 and CSB. The few exceptions are the Tech arms and armour and the minions that can be invoked, and then of course there is the great machine of castle Skullkeep. The minions I'd interpret as clockwork horrors, the item minions would be figurine-like items that summon these clockwork critters. There might be summoning spells available as part of a specific Gondian-like domain only (so only a character totally made for engineering would be able to access them). Some minor Tech-like trinkets could well be the work of gnomes, who found some very ancient stuff in the region of Skullkeep and managed to copy a few select items. More powerful Tech items are remnants of their creators (see below). Not even the most knowledgeable gnomish engineers and alchemists have the knowledge necessary to understand the Skullkeep machine.
For the machine I take a tiny bit of inspiration from a different genre and think for a moment of the gate machine of Thirdspace and its prototype on the Brakiri comet.
The machine was built by the highlords, when they invented planar travel. Possibly there may have been other experimental sites, but nothing is known about that. Only Skullkeep stays mostly intact and visible. No one alive except for GL has the knowledge to understand how it is actuially working. Someone bright might manage to operate it, but even that can prove difficult. It was Skullkeep where the highlords left prime material. But if they had all simply left, the open gate could have been an entry point for strange planar denizens. Early experiments of gate developement by the highlords already brought the demons to Zark. While some of the highlords didn't care about the fate of Zark, others did, and one of them decided to stay behind and close the gate (GL).
There is more than one reason for adventurers though to avoid the County Skullkeep. After the heroes had successfully entered it. the nobles of County Skullkeep hoped to dig out ancient technology that would make them rich, and they wouldn't heed any warnings about risking the destruction of Zark - that's just too ridiculous and unbelievable, probably the heroes wanted to steal the secrets themselves, after all they were just a band of vagabonds. So the heroes decided to scatter and hide the Skullkeep keys again. The angry nobles then forbid any adventurers in the area and have their guards make the lives of adventurers be as difficult as possible.
With the 2 above in mind, I'd like to keep Skullkeep in the present, which means that the DM world is named Zark. Dragoth's banishment I'd set 13 monthes after Chaos second banishment. County Skullkeep is in a region of the empire that is somehow difficult to access (maybe a great rift ar canon cuts it off from easy access). It is inhabitated by humans, horsemen and gnomes, also some giants live in the area. The humans divide into several clans, like the sun and the moon clan. Smuggling Tech artifacts out of County Skullkeep is punishable by death.
Oh, if I take elans as a base for highlords - humans actually can be transformed into elans, maybe that was done with Theron when GL took him as his apprentice.
GL and LC: Your suggestion might be a good reason for GL to reatreat into his lab - withdrawal reduces the number of events that cause him to lose control. I like that idea too. Also, I'd add a second reason. This one is inspired by a Dragonlance element. I only read the original and recently read a couple of abstracts of the newer ones when researching some information about Tiamat and Bahamut for a DnD campaign. DL has a concept of balance that contains some elements of the DM concept of balance. It seems from those abstracts that neither Tiamat/Takhisis nor Bahamut/Paladine could be destroyed because of the laws of balance - being opposites, one could not be when the other was not. So in order to make the destruction of Takhisis possible, Paladine sacrificed his own immortality to keep the balance.
A similar mechanism might be applicable here. If LC is to stay away from the humans, so must LL an GL. If GL interferes with the humans, this increases the chances, that LC gains rapport with them too. Maybe GL even fears, that LC could succeed overtaking him when he is among hte humans (like the shadow of a WoD-wraith), so he stays away from them in order to protect them. So while he might not be dead yet, Theron would still need to be his successor. And whether or whether not he is shifting to Chaos in his seclusion, who knows? On the other hand, LL was banished back to astral limbo. He's still hovering there, waiting for a means to return. This is a danger as great as the one posed by LC. If either manages to return, the other will probably return too.
Most items in DM2 are normal arms and armour, like in DM1 and CSB. The few exceptions are the Tech arms and armour and the minions that can be invoked, and then of course there is the great machine of castle Skullkeep. The minions I'd interpret as clockwork horrors, the item minions would be figurine-like items that summon these clockwork critters. There might be summoning spells available as part of a specific Gondian-like domain only (so only a character totally made for engineering would be able to access them). Some minor Tech-like trinkets could well be the work of gnomes, who found some very ancient stuff in the region of Skullkeep and managed to copy a few select items. More powerful Tech items are remnants of their creators (see below). Not even the most knowledgeable gnomish engineers and alchemists have the knowledge necessary to understand the Skullkeep machine.
For the machine I take a tiny bit of inspiration from a different genre and think for a moment of the gate machine of Thirdspace and its prototype on the Brakiri comet.
The machine was built by the highlords, when they invented planar travel. Possibly there may have been other experimental sites, but nothing is known about that. Only Skullkeep stays mostly intact and visible. No one alive except for GL has the knowledge to understand how it is actuially working. Someone bright might manage to operate it, but even that can prove difficult. It was Skullkeep where the highlords left prime material. But if they had all simply left, the open gate could have been an entry point for strange planar denizens. Early experiments of gate developement by the highlords already brought the demons to Zark. While some of the highlords didn't care about the fate of Zark, others did, and one of them decided to stay behind and close the gate (GL).
There is more than one reason for adventurers though to avoid the County Skullkeep. After the heroes had successfully entered it. the nobles of County Skullkeep hoped to dig out ancient technology that would make them rich, and they wouldn't heed any warnings about risking the destruction of Zark - that's just too ridiculous and unbelievable, probably the heroes wanted to steal the secrets themselves, after all they were just a band of vagabonds. So the heroes decided to scatter and hide the Skullkeep keys again. The angry nobles then forbid any adventurers in the area and have their guards make the lives of adventurers be as difficult as possible.
With the 2 above in mind, I'd like to keep Skullkeep in the present, which means that the DM world is named Zark. Dragoth's banishment I'd set 13 monthes after Chaos second banishment. County Skullkeep is in a region of the empire that is somehow difficult to access (maybe a great rift ar canon cuts it off from easy access). It is inhabitated by humans, horsemen and gnomes, also some giants live in the area. The humans divide into several clans, like the sun and the moon clan. Smuggling Tech artifacts out of County Skullkeep is punishable by death.
Oh, if I take elans as a base for highlords - humans actually can be transformed into elans, maybe that was done with Theron when GL took him as his apprentice.
GL and LC: Your suggestion might be a good reason for GL to reatreat into his lab - withdrawal reduces the number of events that cause him to lose control. I like that idea too. Also, I'd add a second reason. This one is inspired by a Dragonlance element. I only read the original and recently read a couple of abstracts of the newer ones when researching some information about Tiamat and Bahamut for a DnD campaign. DL has a concept of balance that contains some elements of the DM concept of balance. It seems from those abstracts that neither Tiamat/Takhisis nor Bahamut/Paladine could be destroyed because of the laws of balance - being opposites, one could not be when the other was not. So in order to make the destruction of Takhisis possible, Paladine sacrificed his own immortality to keep the balance.
A similar mechanism might be applicable here. If LC is to stay away from the humans, so must LL an GL. If GL interferes with the humans, this increases the chances, that LC gains rapport with them too. Maybe GL even fears, that LC could succeed overtaking him when he is among hte humans (like the shadow of a WoD-wraith), so he stays away from them in order to protect them. So while he might not be dead yet, Theron would still need to be his successor. And whether or whether not he is shifting to Chaos in his seclusion, who knows? On the other hand, LL was banished back to astral limbo. He's still hovering there, waiting for a means to return. This is a danger as great as the one posed by LC. If either manages to return, the other will probably return too.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
I can see the logic of DM2 being in the closer present, although I think for the sake of avoiding the name Zark I would prefer to think of the DM2 setting as happening in a liked world/dimension! Still, a personal preference alone.
Remember the heros are in stasis, and for some reason Thorham's family seemed tasks with keepign them (been six months since I read the manual last). So that means many of the heros in DM2 could give an insight into history aswell as the current state of the world
Remember the heros are in stasis, and for some reason Thorham's family seemed tasks with keepign them (been six months since I read the manual last). So that means many of the heros in DM2 could give an insight into history aswell as the current state of the world
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Well, the DM world would have several races and people and tribes and languages. Zark might be a common name, but not an exclusive one. Still, I don't have anything against Zark. Why not Zark? I too need to read the DM2 manual again (I haven't recently), maybe I can do so later today.
What do you think about the idea of Skullkeep being having been the highlords gate?
Oh, and if I think about it - I once had a DM adventure idea a long time ago that would take place in a deep chasm, so that rift/canon/chasm mentioned above would come in very handy for my ideas. It could have been the disastrous result of a prototype of Skullkeep. It is a dangerous, monster-ridden area. But its not the monsters that keeps away even adventurers. There are reports about whispering voices eating away the sanity of those who venture there. I think of the Shadowlands of the L5R Oriental Adventures here.
What do you think about the idea of Skullkeep being having been the highlords gate?
Oh, and if I think about it - I once had a DM adventure idea a long time ago that would take place in a deep chasm, so that rift/canon/chasm mentioned above would come in very handy for my ideas. It could have been the disastrous result of a prototype of Skullkeep. It is a dangerous, monster-ridden area. But its not the monsters that keeps away even adventurers. There are reports about whispering voices eating away the sanity of those who venture there. I think of the Shadowlands of the L5R Oriental Adventures here.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
I don't know, Zark just sounds so common
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Sophia
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
I thought it was Zalk, not Zark.
That's what this scan from the Amiga manual says, anyway:
http://dmweb.free.fr/files/DMII-Scan-Ma ... ge%209.png
I always took DM2 to be the future of the DM world, too, but that's just me.
Anyway, here's a translation of the Nexus intro. There isn't a whole lot of new stuff there, but I think I got a fairly accurate translation:
That's what this scan from the Amiga manual says, anyway:
http://dmweb.free.fr/files/DMII-Scan-Ma ... ge%209.png
I always took DM2 to be the future of the DM world, too, but that's just me.
Anyway, here's a translation of the Nexus intro. There isn't a whole lot of new stuff there, but I think I got a fairly accurate translation:
Nexus intro wrote:The base of Mt. Anaias-- a land where the eternal grand wizard, the Grey Lord, performed a great experiment.
Deep in the underground of Anaias, slowly but surely, something now was about to come alive.
The Archmaster Theron was going out into the nearby forests to look for the fruit of the Sanbaridu tree, for his weakened master, the Grey Lord. "Master, there is no indication your illness is at all any better. Even the Sanbaridu fruit will probably only cause a little bit of improvement."
Previously, the Grey Lord had performed an experiment releasing the seal on a gem that was the source of infinite mana, known as the Power Gem. However, the experiment ended in failure. The backlash unleashed a nightmare as two souls separated, the "Virtuous" Librasulus and the "Wicked" Chaos. Theron, through great effort, reuinted the two. He thought he had fully restored the Grey Lord, however...
"Is the task not yet complete?"
The instant he was about to pick the fruit of the tree, Theron felt a pain running through his finger. "Ow!" The protective husk of the Sanbaridu stuck him in the finger and was blotted with red blood.
"Caw! Caw!" Looking up, he saw the Grey Lord's companion, Fulcrum the crow, circling around him several times high in the sky, looking quite unsettled. Then, turning toward the castle, Fulcrum flew off.
"This is not a good sign."
Theron dropped his collection of fruit and rapidly chased behind Fulcrum. Having reached the castle, Theron felt profoundly ill at ease. He pushed those feelings aside and opened the castle door.
"Are you there, Grey Lord?"
However, on the other side of the door was not the shape of the Grey Lord, always sitting in his chair. Instead, Fulcrum was there, with a sad look. Theron felt as though someone was creeping up behind his back, unnoticed.
"Who are you!"
At the very moment Theron was about to turn around, he felt an abrupt, severe pain run through his body, and before his eyes, everything went black. Among the haze of distant memories, Theron saw a man's form.
"Oh.. you..."
Theron awakened, not knowing how much time might have passed. He was at a loss for what had happened to him. He was here, but another of himself was still lying on the floor. Was he dead?
"Theron..."
As he heard this, in front of him, a phantasmal version of the Grey Lord rose up. With a facial expression that seemed pained, he spoke.
"To Anaias..."
Right as his words finished, the ghost transformed into Mt. Anaias, and then the visage disintegrated.
Theron made a decision.
"Anaias... Everything depends upon me going there..."
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Ah, I see, basically just a quick 'hey people, remember DM - let's do it again!'. Thanks very much Sophia!
A few interesting thigns to pick out there. I wonder what plot beats are in the game...and if there is more exposition in the ending?
A few interesting thigns to pick out there. I wonder what plot beats are in the game...and if there is more exposition in the ending?
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Great many thanks! Is there more story beyond what you already translated, or does the rest of the manual consist of game instructions?
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Sophia
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Glad to help.Lunever wrote:Great many thanks! Is there more story beyond what you already translated, or does the rest of the manual consist of game instructions?
As far as I can tell, the rest of the manual is just game instructions.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
In order to include all canpon there is, I'm trying to gain access to every form of the games that have been officially released, FTL and japanese derivates as well. I already installed most of them, unfortunately a couple of download links are broken, see http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 29&t=28511
I'm looking forward to have a look on some of the games I never run so far, like Theron'S Quest and Nexus.
I'm looking forward to have a look on some of the games I never run so far, like Theron'S Quest and Nexus.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
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Gambit37
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
There are 3 video cutscenes in Nexus. The intro one is what Sophia transcribed. There are two others -- one half way through where you meet "first stage" Chaos in some kind of pink clown outfit. He has Grey Lord in a cage. Fulcrum attacks Chaos Clown and some kind of bracelet is seen flying through the air which Clown catches and then seems shocked at. It then glows and envelops him -- which causes Clown to turn into big bad armoured Chaos. Grey Lord summons some strength to fire a magic blast at him and they have a magic tussle. Chaos teleports and disappears with some kind departing message/warning.
The final cutscene is just a victory scene. Chaos collapses in a dramatic defeat -- then everything shakes and the room caves in on top of him. Cut to Grey Lord in cage. Theron's ethereal form reappears and he releases GL from cage. They both vanish. Credits roll.
How's your translation of spoken Japanese Sophia? If you can do that, I can post these videos up somewhere.
The final cutscene is just a victory scene. Chaos collapses in a dramatic defeat -- then everything shakes and the room caves in on top of him. Cut to Grey Lord in cage. Theron's ethereal form reappears and he releases GL from cage. They both vanish. Credits roll.
How's your translation of spoken Japanese Sophia? If you can do that, I can post these videos up somewhere.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Well, even without translation it'd be nice to them. Not that I wouldn't like a translation too though.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
DM2 Manual:
There are TechMages; a famous one was named Fiodor. No, I'm not suggesting to bring TechnoMages in here, neither from "The Passing of the TechnoMages", nor from "Mage - the Ascension". However, there is one thought in regard to the B5 TechnoMages, that might an interesting question in regard to the DM2 TechMages too: Where do they have their knowledge from? If the Tech is a remant of the highlords culture on Zalk, they might have some eerie connection to them. Maybe a certain highlord-like being that recently broke free from the last highlord on Zalk offered them such knowledge, in exchange for their covert service.
People:
Torham Zed, protagonist.
Mylius Zed, Uncle of Torham, Head of the House of Zed has a high position in the World Council. A World Council implies large-scale politics. Houses imply noble houses, politically powerful families. Both fits well in the idea of an Empire mentioned earlier in this thread.
Uggo, Seri
The Ra clan, bearing of course the sun crest.
Thieves living in the glen.
The Moon Clan. Their headwpman bears insignia on her forehead.
The Keepers of the Runes. Build circles of stone, beyon d the homes of the moon clan.
Soldiers of the garrison, an occupying force. Features Cryo chambers.
Plains merchants.
Calendar:
There is a storm season.
Geography:
It seems the world of DM is called Zalk or "the Zalk". "You have ... the best heroes of the Zalk .." ... " ... in the land of Zalk" ..
The Lylian planes. Dry area locals retreat to during the storm season.
Trade: I'd leave basic DnD currencies like copper, silver and gold, but I'd exchange the higher ones. Instead of platinum, and in some campaigns mthril and adamantium, I'd introduce green stones, red stones and blue stones. I'll browse through Forgottern Realms Adventures 2nd Ed, it has a nice chapter about treasure and precious stones.
Metaphysics: "There are worlds within worlds, and in the old days we (Mylius: The World Council?) sought to explore them, and we paid dearly for it". Might fit in well with my earlier ideas about the gate. Also "He is coming". I would interpret that as the return of chaos rather than speaking about Dragoth, servant of LC (see earlier in this thread). There is the Void. Evil lurks there. The connection to there is called the Zo-link.
Minions are used for simple work like fetching only, even in the army they are just doing such simple work. They are Techmagical machines that wizards can conjure. The army has a High Command, that is rumoured to have more powerful minions.
The golden winged dragons adoring Skullkeeps doors fit nicely with earlier discussions about Dragons and balance. To open them you need "Keys of destiny, keys of doom".
There are TechMages; a famous one was named Fiodor. No, I'm not suggesting to bring TechnoMages in here, neither from "The Passing of the TechnoMages", nor from "Mage - the Ascension". However, there is one thought in regard to the B5 TechnoMages, that might an interesting question in regard to the DM2 TechMages too: Where do they have their knowledge from? If the Tech is a remant of the highlords culture on Zalk, they might have some eerie connection to them. Maybe a certain highlord-like being that recently broke free from the last highlord on Zalk offered them such knowledge, in exchange for their covert service.
People:
Torham Zed, protagonist.
Mylius Zed, Uncle of Torham, Head of the House of Zed has a high position in the World Council. A World Council implies large-scale politics. Houses imply noble houses, politically powerful families. Both fits well in the idea of an Empire mentioned earlier in this thread.
Uggo, Seri
The Ra clan, bearing of course the sun crest.
Thieves living in the glen.
The Moon Clan. Their headwpman bears insignia on her forehead.
The Keepers of the Runes. Build circles of stone, beyon d the homes of the moon clan.
Soldiers of the garrison, an occupying force. Features Cryo chambers.
Plains merchants.
Calendar:
There is a storm season.
Geography:
It seems the world of DM is called Zalk or "the Zalk". "You have ... the best heroes of the Zalk .." ... " ... in the land of Zalk" ..
The Lylian planes. Dry area locals retreat to during the storm season.
Trade: I'd leave basic DnD currencies like copper, silver and gold, but I'd exchange the higher ones. Instead of platinum, and in some campaigns mthril and adamantium, I'd introduce green stones, red stones and blue stones. I'll browse through Forgottern Realms Adventures 2nd Ed, it has a nice chapter about treasure and precious stones.
Metaphysics: "There are worlds within worlds, and in the old days we (Mylius: The World Council?) sought to explore them, and we paid dearly for it". Might fit in well with my earlier ideas about the gate. Also "He is coming". I would interpret that as the return of chaos rather than speaking about Dragoth, servant of LC (see earlier in this thread). There is the Void. Evil lurks there. The connection to there is called the Zo-link.
Minions are used for simple work like fetching only, even in the army they are just doing such simple work. They are Techmagical machines that wizards can conjure. The army has a High Command, that is rumoured to have more powerful minions.
The golden winged dragons adoring Skullkeeps doors fit nicely with earlier discussions about Dragons and balance. To open them you need "Keys of destiny, keys of doom".
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
I've seen the Theron's Quest intro by now. Seems like all information some japanese advertisement designer got was "Old mage Greylord, young guy Theron going on a mission for him".
The sorcerer Greylord appears to send young men on perilous missions and the shepherd boy Therons accepts the mission to prove his manhood?!?
Well, since I do not yet know how the story goes on ingame, there a 2 crude concepts I could imagine to implement this. Anyone who already played TQ please comment this (I don't mind spoilers, rather I appreciate all information I can get).
a) An easy and probably rather logical one: TQ is a prequel to DM1, the shepherd boy Theron needs to find the symbols to become GL's apprentice in the first place.
b) A complicated and confusing one: TQ is not a prequel to DM1/CSB but a sequel. Of course this doesn't seem to fit at a first glance and thus would need to be made fit like this:
If I should want to implement this, I might make the following out of it: Chaos gained more foothold on Zalk again, which causes GL to shift frequently to his LL aspect. When he is LL, he goes out to send adventureres on deadly missions against the servants of LC, like finding the 7 symbols of the Brave TQ seems to be about. When GL is himself, he retreats deep into Mt. Anaias. Theron is destined to be his successor. However, since it is hard to tell when GL makes his own decisions, and when decisions are influenced by LL, and GL does not want LL to be able to give Theron detrimental orders, GL sent Theron away, back to his shepherd family. From there he observes the celebrations where the LL-influenced GL sends adventurers to their deaths. He then moves to save/ressurrect/reincarnate a band of adventurers as often as he can. There is a price though - adventurers saved thus are oblieged to quest for the restoration of balance.
So essentially you start the campaign with a probably short adventure with that probably ends like the first scene of adventurers in DM1. It is not useless for the SCs though to achieve at least some success, for they may keep what xp and loot they gain thus, like in "Supplies for the Quick". During that "embrace-like" adventure (if I may make that comparison with WoD-Vampire) they become introduced with some major long-term plot that may possibly be harmful for the balance (after all they've been sent on their initial mission they failed at by LL, like in DM1).
Might be a nice campaign concept, especially if your players don't know about it and are surprised at being killed despite their struggles and then be raised again for their true mission.
c) I stick to the prequel concept, since it's making more sense, but take some elements of the sequel concept anyway because I like the LL-DM1 and CSB-Supplies-for-the-Quick and Ressurrected/Reincarnated-champions ideas - it would be nice to have more than the meager canon stories and cut-scenes to match DM. I find a campaign structure in tune with the structure of DM/CSB very appealing.
The sorcerer Greylord appears to send young men on perilous missions and the shepherd boy Therons accepts the mission to prove his manhood?!?
Well, since I do not yet know how the story goes on ingame, there a 2 crude concepts I could imagine to implement this. Anyone who already played TQ please comment this (I don't mind spoilers, rather I appreciate all information I can get).
a) An easy and probably rather logical one: TQ is a prequel to DM1, the shepherd boy Theron needs to find the symbols to become GL's apprentice in the first place.
b) A complicated and confusing one: TQ is not a prequel to DM1/CSB but a sequel. Of course this doesn't seem to fit at a first glance and thus would need to be made fit like this:
If I should want to implement this, I might make the following out of it: Chaos gained more foothold on Zalk again, which causes GL to shift frequently to his LL aspect. When he is LL, he goes out to send adventureres on deadly missions against the servants of LC, like finding the 7 symbols of the Brave TQ seems to be about. When GL is himself, he retreats deep into Mt. Anaias. Theron is destined to be his successor. However, since it is hard to tell when GL makes his own decisions, and when decisions are influenced by LL, and GL does not want LL to be able to give Theron detrimental orders, GL sent Theron away, back to his shepherd family. From there he observes the celebrations where the LL-influenced GL sends adventurers to their deaths. He then moves to save/ressurrect/reincarnate a band of adventurers as often as he can. There is a price though - adventurers saved thus are oblieged to quest for the restoration of balance.
So essentially you start the campaign with a probably short adventure with that probably ends like the first scene of adventurers in DM1. It is not useless for the SCs though to achieve at least some success, for they may keep what xp and loot they gain thus, like in "Supplies for the Quick". During that "embrace-like" adventure (if I may make that comparison with WoD-Vampire) they become introduced with some major long-term plot that may possibly be harmful for the balance (after all they've been sent on their initial mission they failed at by LL, like in DM1).
Might be a nice campaign concept, especially if your players don't know about it and are surprised at being killed despite their struggles and then be raised again for their true mission.
c) I stick to the prequel concept, since it's making more sense, but take some elements of the sequel concept anyway because I like the LL-DM1 and CSB-Supplies-for-the-Quick and Ressurrected/Reincarnated-champions ideas - it would be nice to have more than the meager canon stories and cut-scenes to match DM. I find a campaign structure in tune with the structure of DM/CSB very appealing.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
a) That's exactly how I see it, anything else isn't really logical
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
So, are there further cut-scenes and and ending sequence in TQ? That might help.
If no cutscene contradicts this, I'll prefer a) too. Still, sending the PCs on a mission destined to fail and all they get is some supplies (and some information though they may not realize that) before dying and being ressurrected would be a dm-like campaign start for any variant.
If no cutscene contradicts this, I'll prefer a) too. Still, sending the PCs on a mission destined to fail and all they get is some supplies (and some information though they may not realize that) before dying and being ressurrected would be a dm-like campaign start for any variant.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
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Sophia
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
The most useful thing TQ offers, to me, at least in the sense of gathering canon information, is the name of some lands and dungeons outside of the Viborg area, that you can use to populate your world map.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Still - does it HAVE any other cut-scenes?
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
The map and story do throw out alot of fun names and history
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Can someone provide the manual in some good resolution as a pdf? Christophe?
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Just watched the Nexus avis. Would be nice to understand what they say in the second one. Sophia, did you watch them? If so, do you understant what is said?
BTW: Nice easteregg after the ending credits.
BTW: Nice easteregg after the ending credits.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Well, by now I had a closer look at the TQ manual.
The intro story strongly indicates the prequel theory mentioned above.
Still, it also mentions "the Cults of Death, hordes from chaos". This leaves much room for interpretation.
Geography:
The text mentions the village of Bigobu. Since the text contains typos and generally isn't written very sohpisticated, I gather that this is only an acoustical misunderstanding. Probably all the writer got was the intro cut scene, which imho mentions the "village of Viborg in the Ananian region".
YaBrodin: Sounds rather like just YaBro in the cut-scene imho, but Yabrodin should be ok nonetheless. Lost city, center of a great academy of mages, the Brotherhood of Enlightment. The Highlords were close to them. The hordes of chaos sacked it and killed all members of the brotherhood.
AkuTuBa: Flying Citadell created by the mighty magician Alaphalon. Infested with Mummies. The mummies did not fight the brotherhood, but nonetheless stole their "Shield Defiant", some kind of solar cell - sounds like another piece of Tech-magic imho (see earlier entries about DM2), albeit I guess gamewise it's just a Ra-Shield.
Formicia: The name indicates ants. It is inhabitated by Trolins. Since DM1 Trolins and CSB antmen are basically the same creature and Nexus trolins also look like antmen, I'd say trolins and antmen are the same insectoid people, the Formians. On contrary to the Formian Workers, the armed Formian Warriors are called Trolins. They are fierce and aggressive and quickly seized the opportunity to fight and plunder for the Hordes. The keep the Taza Poleyn and use it to continue to expand their underground empire. Sounds like the Power-Towers. They strive for world conquest.
Village of Thieves: Underground, on the west end of Nordoor Marsh. Settlement of Gigglers. I guess I will make Gigglers a race after all (despite earlier considerations) - and they shall be based on Kenders. The question is, be they Kenders, or are they just similar to them gamewise but look like DM1 Gigglers, and are Gigglers and DM2 Thicket Thieves different creatures? Since the DM1 Gigglers look very unique, I guess I'll keep their looks. They have the Taza-Helm (proabably the Dexhelm).
Tower of Drator: Drator was once a great-warrior sorcerer, he is the creator of the Cult of Deaths. The Cult of Deaths is supposed to be a murderous mercenary mob. Since Drator was expelled by the Highlords, that means he is/was a Highlord. Interesting! So GL is just the last non-expelled Highlord on Zalk. Maybe there could be some sinister link beween the fall of Drator and the Rise of Lord Chaos. Would make a great long-term main plot. He worked for the Gigglers during the raid of YaBrodin and got the Taza boots (probably Boots of Speed) as a reward. Probably a giggler with boots of speed would suffer from all those sonic booms.
Den of Shadolan: Also a wizard working for the Gigglers, supposedly defeated by a witch. Got the Taza armour (probably the flame bain).
Tomb of Sarmon: Undead evil wizard - I would make that a Lich in DnD. Guardian of the Soul Cage (I gather it is an amulet, though I do not yet know what kind of amulet. If I follow the treasures above it might be the most powerful amulet in DM/CSB, which imho was the pendant feral).
Demon's Gate: Place of evil spirits (again I think of the OA/L5R Shadowlands). A powerful evil spirit/demon named Sargoth looted the sword Retaliator from the Brotherhood (I guess that'd be the Inquisitor). The name Sargoth imho is an homage to the Midkemia novels.
Seems like the gigglers have a lot more influence than anyone would guess. The village of thieves might be THE place for organized fencing crime.
The intro story strongly indicates the prequel theory mentioned above.
Still, it also mentions "the Cults of Death, hordes from chaos". This leaves much room for interpretation.
Geography:
The text mentions the village of Bigobu. Since the text contains typos and generally isn't written very sohpisticated, I gather that this is only an acoustical misunderstanding. Probably all the writer got was the intro cut scene, which imho mentions the "village of Viborg in the Ananian region".
YaBrodin: Sounds rather like just YaBro in the cut-scene imho, but Yabrodin should be ok nonetheless. Lost city, center of a great academy of mages, the Brotherhood of Enlightment. The Highlords were close to them. The hordes of chaos sacked it and killed all members of the brotherhood.
AkuTuBa: Flying Citadell created by the mighty magician Alaphalon. Infested with Mummies. The mummies did not fight the brotherhood, but nonetheless stole their "Shield Defiant", some kind of solar cell - sounds like another piece of Tech-magic imho (see earlier entries about DM2), albeit I guess gamewise it's just a Ra-Shield.
Formicia: The name indicates ants. It is inhabitated by Trolins. Since DM1 Trolins and CSB antmen are basically the same creature and Nexus trolins also look like antmen, I'd say trolins and antmen are the same insectoid people, the Formians. On contrary to the Formian Workers, the armed Formian Warriors are called Trolins. They are fierce and aggressive and quickly seized the opportunity to fight and plunder for the Hordes. The keep the Taza Poleyn and use it to continue to expand their underground empire. Sounds like the Power-Towers. They strive for world conquest.
Village of Thieves: Underground, on the west end of Nordoor Marsh. Settlement of Gigglers. I guess I will make Gigglers a race after all (despite earlier considerations) - and they shall be based on Kenders. The question is, be they Kenders, or are they just similar to them gamewise but look like DM1 Gigglers, and are Gigglers and DM2 Thicket Thieves different creatures? Since the DM1 Gigglers look very unique, I guess I'll keep their looks. They have the Taza-Helm (proabably the Dexhelm).
Tower of Drator: Drator was once a great-warrior sorcerer, he is the creator of the Cult of Deaths. The Cult of Deaths is supposed to be a murderous mercenary mob. Since Drator was expelled by the Highlords, that means he is/was a Highlord. Interesting! So GL is just the last non-expelled Highlord on Zalk. Maybe there could be some sinister link beween the fall of Drator and the Rise of Lord Chaos. Would make a great long-term main plot. He worked for the Gigglers during the raid of YaBrodin and got the Taza boots (probably Boots of Speed) as a reward. Probably a giggler with boots of speed would suffer from all those sonic booms.
Den of Shadolan: Also a wizard working for the Gigglers, supposedly defeated by a witch. Got the Taza armour (probably the flame bain).
Tomb of Sarmon: Undead evil wizard - I would make that a Lich in DnD. Guardian of the Soul Cage (I gather it is an amulet, though I do not yet know what kind of amulet. If I follow the treasures above it might be the most powerful amulet in DM/CSB, which imho was the pendant feral).
Demon's Gate: Place of evil spirits (again I think of the OA/L5R Shadowlands). A powerful evil spirit/demon named Sargoth looted the sword Retaliator from the Brotherhood (I guess that'd be the Inquisitor). The name Sargoth imho is an homage to the Midkemia novels.
Seems like the gigglers have a lot more influence than anyone would guess. The village of thieves might be THE place for organized fencing crime.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
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Gambit37
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Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Oooh, I just remembered, you should read "The Secrets of Dungeon Mastery" too:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/401
This was written by Tracy Hickman. Yes, THE Tracy Hickman. It's a hint book in the form of a story and has some other background in it. (I actually contacted him a few years back to get an interview but never followed it up.)
Note that the special items in TQ do in fact have different graphics from the comparison items you mentioned. I don't know what the properties are though, guess you should check the DME.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/401
This was written by Tracy Hickman. Yes, THE Tracy Hickman. It's a hint book in the form of a story and has some other background in it. (I actually contacted him a few years back to get an interview but never followed it up.)
Note that the special items in TQ do in fact have different graphics from the comparison items you mentioned. I don't know what the properties are though, guess you should check the DME.
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Trolins/antmen - I assume them seperate (trolins are too orc-like) and are constantly at war.
While High Lords are a separate race, the fact that there are warrior sorcerers (like Theron himself) that seems ot have the potential to ascend to the same level still would hint the High Lords had to follow the immortality path, and so other craces/classes can too like D&D
Also, I had not read Theron's Quest whe I first started the D&D game, but it was amazing how much the story settled perfectly onto my own plotlines...there are now many links...
While High Lords are a separate race, the fact that there are warrior sorcerers (like Theron himself) that seems ot have the potential to ascend to the same level still would hint the High Lords had to follow the immortality path, and so other craces/classes can too like D&D
Also, I had not read Theron's Quest whe I first started the D&D game, but it was amazing how much the story settled perfectly onto my own plotlines...there are now many links...
Re: Creating a DM paper&pen RPG game based on DnD/d20 3rd Ed.
Gambit: Yes, now that you mention it, I did read that one, although a long time ago. I'll just read it again to see what I can implement here.
Beo: No contradiction with what you PMed me so far. I still can make Drator be the evil puppetmaster in the backgorund. Ever wondered why GL at first found the wrong spell to free the powergem ... ?
Beo: No contradiction with what you PMed me so far. I still can make Drator be the evil puppetmaster in the backgorund. Ever wondered why GL at first found the wrong spell to free the powergem ... ?
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.