Dungeon Master Forum

So, while it was possible to connect a mouse to those old consoles as far as I know, neither of those games supports a mouse for a game that set new standards in graphical mouse-based user interface.

So I either have to play with a keyboard, or acquire some kind of game controller like a joypad.

So firstly, I'm trying to figure out what keys and functionalities the games actually have (in order to avoid playing through for hours without noticing that I missed some functionalities that would have made playing much less awkward).

Secondly, I'm trying to find the best way of playing the games by normal keyboard.

Thirdly I'm trying to find a suitable control device that will do fine for Nexus and TQ as well.

Any experiences of other players would be interesting. How did you play the game? By keyboard? If so, what is your favoured keymap? Or did you play using a control device like a joypad? If so, what device did you use?

The various emulators like Magic Engine or Ootake, Girigiri/Cassini or SSF usually offer some key remapping option. However, the range of selectable keys seems to be very limited. For example SSF doesn't seem to allow anything other than letters and the return key. So for the record - I'm using Ootake and SSF.

Since I never had a console and having been used to a joystick never liked joypads anyway, I don't have experience with any original pads that PCE or Saturn have been using (I've had Sharp MZ 700/800, C64, Atari ST, Amiga 2000+PC/XT, nothing else though except for later machines with msdos and windows).

So let's start with Nexus:

From SSF I gather you had some 4-switch direction pad (with pressing 2 switches resulting in diagonal control), some thumb 2-switch control (distinguishing some left and some right shift, and 6 keys, probably mostly for your off-hand.

Buttons are called up, down, left, right, L, R, A, B, C, X, Y, Z, Start

For now I have mapped them as following: direction - cursor keys, A-R, B-Q, C-F, X-D, Y-W, Z-E, L-C, R-V.

So far the game seems to have the following functions:

Start: Pause game

L: Shift character selection left

R: Shift character selection right

B: Inventory/menu

X: Toggle Auto-attack

Z: Toggle cursor/movement

Movement mode:

up/down/left/right: Move party forward/backward, turn left/right. Double-tipping forward will let you move a little less slow, double-tipping left/right will flip your party 90 degree.

A: Attack

Y: Magic runes menu: direction keys select runes, A: prepares rune.

C: Casts prepared runes. First quick test game didn't let me cast any spells though. Can you just train them like in original DM, or do you have to find and read them first, like in return to chaos?

Cursor Mode:

up/down/left/right or diagonal combinations: Move cursor in 8 directions

A: select/operate

Y: flip cursor to next selectable item

In the inventory/menu some keys seem to have different functions. Haven't figured out everything yet. Some functions seem to be findable due to theirs symbols, others I still don't understand fully.

Also, I do not know, whether some key combinations might do things I have not yet discovered.

I'd be very glad to hear about other peoples experiences and discoveries.

I'll postpone TQ funtions until I have figured out the Nexus ones.


Did anyone actually play through Nexus with using just a PC keyboard?

I'm thinking about getting some control device. The emulators seem to support some. I'm not exactly sure what this will do though. Is a joypad recommendable or rather some other device? Does it offer just more comfort because it is more handy or does it allow you to anything you can't do with the PC keyboard either?

What device would be best to play both, Nexus and TQ as well (and what functions and keys does a PCE and TQ have anyway)?


I'm thinking about buying a Connexion Space Navigator 3D anyway. With an RBC9 driver this might be a nice device for Nexus/TQ too. Oppinions?

I've never played TQ beyond the intro so I can't help there.

Lunever wrote:Did anyone actually play through Nexus with using just a PC keyboard?

Yes, that's how I played it on GiriGiri.

This is the Saturn controller that you want to emulate:

http://www.gamesarefun.com/consoles/ps2/segasat.jpg

Left hand D pad, two shoulder buttons, 6 right hand buttons.

As noted, it's over 6 years since I played Nexus and I don't really remember anything particular about the technical setup or specifically how I controlled it. All I remember was how bloody slow it was. You can speed up the walking speed by making sure a little winged boot icon is on screen -- I think you tap forward twice for that.

Anyway, my PC won't run SSF, plus I don't have the time to look into it I'm afraid. Hopefully another forum member can assist in more detail.

Right, hope I can gather some additional information about functions of Nexus.

TQ:

So far I noticed the following about playing TQ by keyboard:

6-button pad screws up the control somehow.
3-button pad actually configures as 4-button pad, but button 3 and 4 just double RUN and SELECT, so they are essentially useless, except maybe to have those funtions ready for either hand. But since it are the buttons 1 and 2 that are important, that's not making much difference.
2-button pad: Pretty little to control a game like DM, so I expect this to get very difficult.

Keys that are somehow connected to the menu of Ootake trigger the menu instead, even if pressed without ALT. For example mapping a button to "R" doesn't seem to work.

SELECT: Open/close inventory
RUN: cycle to next characters inventory (does not close inventory, rather jumps from last characters inventory to first characters inventory).

Button 1: Operate/select

Up/down/right/left: Move cursor

Button 2 + up: Move forward directly
Button 2 + down: Move backward directly
Button 2 + right: Turn right directly
Button 2 + left: Turn left directly

I didn't find a key combination so far that allows to sidestep directly. If there actually shouldn't be one, that would inhibit tactical movement severely.

Also, since you usually move directly most of the times, that would mean that during the game you would have to press a key almost continously.
It would be nice to find some software trick to toggle such a key instead. Mapping button 2 to a shift key doesn't work.

Does anyone know some tool that allows to toggle a keyboard key on/off?

Are there any key combos I missed?

Would be nice to know other people's experience with TQ.

See the TQ manual on the Encyclopaedia: http://dmweb.free.fr/files/TQ-Scan-Manu ... ntrols.png

Sigh, I really had hoped I just missed something, but alas, no direct sidestep. Still - do you know a way to toggle a key?

Damn! Already encountered the first serious bug.

In TQ you can't drink directly from a well. However, when I fill a flask or whaterskin at a well, the weight of my 3rd champion, Dotan, increases to 99, which is a complete overload.

So far levels seem so small that the fountain bug isn't to severe though. I played through AkTuBa and Formicia.
The little Wrath of God in Formicia actually is a quite nice little puzzle. Nice little puzzle compilation from DM and CSB tidbits.

From what I understand, TQs design decisions all came from the fact that the PC Engine had so little memory. They couldn't do much with it! I sometimes wonder why they even bothered

If it is actually memory that forces the dungeons to be that small, I think they performed quite well. The small dungeons contain a good choice of riddles for a DM newbie. Of course, if you are already through the original games, there's not much new for you. Still, it's creating a nostalgic atmosphere.

Found another bug and an exploit:

You can climb down closed trap doors. That will not lead you necessarily to where the trapdoors was intended to get you. For example, if you climb down the trapdoor in the thieves village that is surrounded by 4 gigglers, you end up in the hidden room that contains some gigglers (probably moving around the moving pit) and no exit. Dead end, restart game.

If you put on stat-boosting items like a magic staff with Theron, he loses the items, but he keeps the stats. If you take Dotans staff before delievering each Taza treasure, you gain an additional 16 Mana each time. 7x16 = 112 extra Mana. Not bad.

Lunever wrote:You can climb down closed trap doors.

This one existed in DM, too, and still exists in CSBwin.
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 49&t=24757

EDIT: Oh, and I just checked, it happens in DSB, too. I wonder if I should fix it.

TQ: Well, after getting used to mouseless play and that you can't start series of actions rapidly, I found TQ to be a cute little game.
For someone playing DM for the first time, playing TQ before DM1 might actually be a nice tutorial, so adding it to any clone would be an asset imho (gonna check that later).

BTW: When I was through I checked the Encyclopaedia maps to make sure that I didn't miss anything. I found several treasures on different places than the Encyclopaedia indicates, maybe they are shuffled around a bit like in CSB. However, I entered a section of Demon's Gate south of the little DDD, it had a "What is under foot is soon overhead"-like puzzle with preasure plates and fireball launchers, and a throwing riddle called "Throw it all away". This entire section including the double stairway leading there (one down plus one up again) seems to be missing entirely from the maps.

Cute ending movie.

Nexus: Choice of champions - some of the pictures seem to represent champions known from DM1, but probably not all of them.
Can someone who can read kanji, like Sophia, identify the names?
Are there any hidden champions?

If you look in your Profile on the forum, you can find a link to various Avatar Galleries -- one of them has the Nexus portraits with the English names. I simply mapped the names onto them as it's clear from their pic who they are.

To answer your second question: Yes. Same two as CSB (different names though).

Thanks for the hint! Champions need to have names.

Can you have them both or just one of them like in CSB?

Gambit37 wrote:I simply mapped the names onto them as it's clear from their pic who they are.

Not quite, at least according to this page. It seems some of them have modified names. The Romanizations given do match the Japanese, for the most part.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/458

It's fairly easy to tell from the inventory who is supposed to be who, though: Tika is Chani, etc. Stamm and Hawk have been removed, but there are the two secret champions from CSB. Characters have probably been renamed to get a better sound for Japanese players-- for example, Chani would mean "in the tea" in Japanese, which would sound weird. Iaido was renamed Muramasa after the famous swordsmith; "Iaido" is a type of martial art and so it would seem as silly as a guy named "Karate." Some of the others, like Linflas, would just be mouthfuls in Japanese.

Do you know where in the dungeon the hidden champions can be found?

@Sophia: What I meant was that I changed the names in the avatar gallery to match the DM1 names as it's obvious from the portrait who they are. So yes, Tika becomes Chani for example.

@Lunever: Yes Hint: there are some false walls you can walk through.

Gambit: Really. What I meant was - are the hidden champions in hall of champions, like in csb, or are they somewhere else.

Off the Hoc, one to the left, one to the right.

I finally took some time to play a bit into Nexus. Just played half of the first level and I think I got most of the controls:

Gambit: In an earlier thread you said "Magic is good, if a little awkward to begin with. One nice thing is that for each character, it remembers the last spell you cast, so you can select an icon to launch, say, 4 fireballs very quickly. "

Couldn't find how that is done though. Can you remember?

No idea, sorry, I'd have to peruse the manual to see if it jogs my memory.

So far, when I cast a spell, I do it the usual way. Pressing the cast key again without reselecting the runes only gets ma a "?" symbol.

In the inventory there are 2 lists, "priest spells" and "wizard spells", but as far as I can tell they just list the kanji descriptions of the spells you have on scrolls in your inventory.

I had a quick look, I think it's something to do with the left most grey square on the "rune ring". It sometimes show an exclamation mark, i think that's the "panic button" for launching your last spell?

Right, if you cast a prepared spell via that symbol, then you can repeat it via that symbol.

Traded in my first magical staff (Mana +2) versus the equal wight magical staff. Just, how can I do anything with it except bashing?