Free the dungeon

[Joramun]

Hello Humans,

In the DSB forum, Pietrus asked under which licence DSB was released, and Sophia's answer was:
none, because the sound and graphics are ripped from DM/CSB.

So here is a thread to discuss about that topic:

How hard would it be to create full set of custom,free graphics for DM/CSB ?
Would it have any interest ?

etc.

My feeling is that it would be nice in the long term, but if it should have any interest, it should be hi-res graphics and sounds.

[Bit]

There are about 500 graphics (and don't forget the sounds), and some of them are one picture that contains a lot of mini-graphics, like items and characters. Those just count as one of the 500...

[beowuuf]

|For hi res, Cows started, and didn't get far. Gambit started, and didn't get far. Linflas was doign a high res version of Forets of Doom, and so far has got an area. RL is a bitch, and high res graphics are time consuming. It's a nice thought, but so far it's already one people have had, and not been able to accomplish.

For low res grapnics, there are a few sets out there already, people have released their resources. Pick one you like, and tweak it for RTC/DSB/DMJ (and the last already has redrawn walls and doors), or use ADGE to insert them into CSBwin thought it's hard to make them work.

Basically, it's a thought that people have had along the way, and what many custom designers want to do. The endeavour, if you have free time, is perhaps to see exactly what can be pulled together from what's already been released.

[Gambit37]

What Beo said.

If I were paid to do it, as a profitable full time job, then I could easily do this. But as it takes nearly all my free time these days to run my business, it's never gonna happen for me, unless I win the Lottery or something.

You need to find someone who has some or all of these:

1) Will work for free
2) Has unlimited free time
3) Has continual motivation
4) Has all the necessary skills

etc, etc. Good luck!!!!!

[RAF68]

I totally agree with the fact that you say gambit

[Hajo]

As the former posters already pointed out, such projects are too big for a single person. Since some years I try to paint about 500 very simple monster and item graphics for a game, and I'm still not done ...

But a group of people can do it. I found the former postings a bit bit discouraging to the question, that is why I want to offer the view that a group of people can do that, even if there are 4 or 5 examples of single persons who tried and got overwhelmed by the amount of work.

[beowuuf]

Well it's all very well asking the question, and it's all very well being encouraging, but that does nothing. It's not discouraging what we said, we're not saying that we don't think it is possible, we're just pointing out that no one has done it yet for valid reasons.

There's no point starting a discussion on it as if it's never been though about. The question has never, ever needed posing. What you need is a core group of people who can keep traction to keep inspiring the project to continue, a project that needs a certain cohesion in artistic styles. If osmeone wants to lead the charge, great, but otherwise it's just idle speculation and idle optomism.

[Hajo]

Yes, there must be someone who can create a good part of the needed graphics by himself, and has the skill to gather and motivate other people to help.

[Gambit37]

That person sure ain't me! I recognise that I'm simply not strong enough to see things through from start to end (as a full time hobby) -- the failed projects I've discussed on here over the years should prove that, they were all too big and I was never any good at the "start small, release often" ideology. I think in terms of projects as a perfect whole and I'm never happy to release things that aren't 100% great. My perfectionism gets in the way of actually doing stuff that's simply good enough: Great is the enemy of Good after all. I don't know whay I think like this and I don't know why I can't seem to change my behaviour, but there you have it -- that's just me.

In an ideal world, I'd love to do something like this full time for fun, but obviously with bills to pay and a life to lead, that would only happen if I didn't have to worry about earning an income. So in fact, perhaps we should form a syndicate to win the Lottery, rather than a group of artists -- we've probably got just as much chance of success!

[biffo666]

I was in the commercial game industry for over 15 years primarily employed as an artist. I can tell you if I bid the job of replacing all the artwork for Dungeon Master, I would estimate the time to produce the graphics to replace minimally the art represented in the original it would be at least 3 months for me and a junior artist, and that's assuming he could draw, and pixel, at the minimum. I am playing with the editor, and working up a project. I'd be happy to share any new art I make in the spirit of open source cooperation. I have to add that I'm pretty jacked that one of my all time favorite games has so many dedicated fans, and has so many rebuilt editors, and engines. (Java-DM, RTC, etc.) BTW: If anyone has any interest in porting a build of this to the Android Operating system, I will commit to generating all the artwork for a remake.



... Bringing joy to the world,
one pixel at a time...
http://www.benfischer.com/

[Bit]

Yes, who can have that much time, if there are so much funky websites to be visited around - nice one Ben
- btw: feel good here!

[Chaos-Shaman]

man, i can't believe what i am reading. all the love and manpower is already here. getting around to us all working together is another mission in itself. it seems that there are pockets of hope. is there a magic word that can get this idea working, we all can offer something. DM was the best game ever, there must be something that can unite this passion once again. the impression that is felt is everyone must do it themselves. the feeling has changed since back in 2000 when i was working with dmute. moved and lost contact with the DM group, life got complicated. kicking my ass for the 6 years i missed. only the last three years has time come available. it would be a pleasure to assist any dungeon master with DM. i wished this before.....

[Zyx]

We can divide the work into small tasks and assign them. The problem would be coherence of style and coordinating everything.

[linflas]

coherence of style is the problem because people's abilities and tastes are not equal.
i would hate a 3d rendered DM for example.

[Gambit37]

Yeah. Look at the Daggerfall graphics for example: multiple art teams over many years created 3 or 4 different styles that don't really work together -- and that's in a commercial game!

[linflas]

by the way, considering some team creates a DM high res graphics set from scratch, i would suggest going way higher than 640x480 to eventually use those graphics in a future HD engine..

[Chaos-Shaman]

i think for it to work that a good team organizer is the key. we all have different levels of skills and knowledge, i would image with many wild ideas too. willing to devote time to a project. who is willing to do it. this all can be done. i am wondering if there are some who don't want to share their work and that's understandable. my hand is in the circle -----E

[Bit]

This suggestion is maybe childish... - but - what about photographs?

[Chaos-Shaman]

it would not be all that easy to create from scratch, so maybe a cross of photos with imaginative adjustments. add a few arms and some warped guts is not that difficult. if it was all possible to have a pub just down the road where we could have a cold draft, this would be very helpful. turn a can of beer into a creature sounds fun. shoots draft at you, my kind of creature, heh... ok , so more proof of skills is necessary.

[biffo666]

A few of the problems you run into if you were to use photographs, is that the undead tend to freak out by the flash on cameras, and the inter-dimensional nature of some non-corporeal beings cause them to come out blurry. (Plus I've lost my last two cameras to Giggler's.)

[Bit]

[Hajo]

Photographs will need quite some amount of postprocessing, but often give nice results. At least I had good luck constructing houses for some game from photos of real houses that I took once.

Tests with walls for textures have been unsatisfying though. It's quite tricky to get the light right, but I'm positive with more experience it can be done properly, too.

The problem of being unable to photograph imagined creatures is hard to solve though. But sometimes one can adapt real creatures ...

[Gambit37]

I don't think photos are suitable for creating a free graphics set for DM. One of the reasons we love it is the old school vibe and the more realistic you get with the imagery, you get further away from that vibe.

[Hajo]

Personally, I don't like the modern 3D games at all. Higher resolution graphics in the same style of the original DM ones will be good for me. I just tried to share a few experiences of my own tries with photos, not particularly limited to DM.

Sorry for striving off topic.

[linflas]

Sure ! but 3d could be nice for dungeon walls, stairs and so on. Some high-def Doom engine would be sufficient.

[Rasmus]

I can always help with the items and heroes, maybe monsters. I was already thinking about creating 2D pictures of the 3d items/heroes etc. from DMT2 that anyone can use as they please.

But then again, they may not look as good as handdrawed pictures

[zoom]

Hi there,
because you mentioned drawings:

I can only do some scribbles...from different perspectives.
as you can see below some examples of my current work.
I really aim to finish them up, i.e. digital painting the stuff for a more complete and, well, finished look..
Did not dive into this very much until recently.. we will see how it turns out.









Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Ameena]

There's something really familiar about that first picture - I fell like I've seen it (or something very similar) before somewhere. I'm not accusing you of plagiarism or anything, don't worry . I've probably seen so man Fantasy-ish images over the years, similarities are bound to op up from time to time. They're good pics .

[linflas]

it looks very Fighting Fantasy, nice drawings, that's how DM should look, not cartoonish like DM2 on PC.

[zoom]

Thanks Ameena and linflas.
So ...if it were, where do we go?

photographs could be awesome. For reference of levels etc.

3d models are not bad in itself, e.g. you can have the different light values& moods very quickly but it could look cold all we would need is static pics.

concerning the vibe : how can this be kept while going for high res?