Dungeon Master Forum

MasterWuuf wrote:Oh well. Maxed is maxed, at least in DM.

MasterWuuf, I see that you have health, stamina and strength maxed out.

What calculations/estimates/expectations did you have when advancing a level? What sort of result in terms of gained skills/health was deemed good enough? I understand that anything less and you would reload and do the level-up again?

Hello everybody!
Here's the result of Wuuf's training:



It's slightly different in stats than Masterwuuf's, I guess that game version can really make difference.
Well, I'm not going to investigate myself
The last of my party will be Daroou, I'm training right now for the last level in every class.
Bye bye

Valerio

Vytel wrote:It's slightly different in stats than Masterwuuf's, I guess that game version can really make difference.

Well there is a random element too, right? If you did the training all over again you would end up with different numbers I believe?

aster wrote:you would end up with different numbers I believe?

Well, you would definitely end up with grey hair, conjunctivis, strained right forefinger and permanent damage to your sanity.

aster wrote:

Vytel wrote:It's slightly different in stats than Masterwuuf's, I guess that game version can really make difference.

Well there is a random element too, right? If you did the training all over again you would end up with different numbers I believe?

Yes, you're right, there is a random element but, as far as I've seen, you're gonna reach 999 in both health and stamina approximately when you reach PAL/MON master in every class (at least in amiga 3.6 version) so I guess you needn't bother about loading back to max out those two stats
By the way, which version are you playing?

Vytel wrote:Yes, you're right, there is a random element but, as far as I've seen, you're gonna reach 999 in both health and stamina approximately when you reach PAL/MON master in every class (at least in amiga 3.6 version) so I guess you needn't bother about loading back to max out those two stats
By the way, which version are you playing?

I'm playing the PC version using the Boxer app (DOSBox) for Mac.

Even if health and stamina get maxed out, wouldn't you want to make sure you get the most out of raising your skills with each level-up?

MasterWuuf wrote:

MasterWuuf wrote:

Others may have already done this, but this is my first Archmaster in all four classes, without firestaff in hand.

By the way, have any of you actually done this before?
I haven't received any definite comments stating that anyone has taken the time to do it.

Just came back to this thread. Say, I WAS gone for awhile, wasn't I?
Now we have a number of 4-class Archmasters around.

I noticed the one 'blast from the past' picture had (did I see it right?) FOUR corbumites.
Where'd they come from in the first place? I don't recall more than one or two in the game.

Four corbums in CSB.

Jan wrote:

aster wrote:you would end up with different numbers I believe?

Well, you would definitely end up with grey hair, conjunctivis, strained right forefinger and permanent damage to your sanity.

Hey! Stop telling everyone my problems!

P.S. Jan: Dyslexic Dementia can also become a slight possibility, as in difficulties spelling certain words like conjunctivitis.

Spoiler

(I'm sure there's not a 'dry eye' in the house now)

HA!

---
DM PC

Woohoo! Gratz .

Thank you. Now I'll try to finish CSB this one champion.

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CSBwin v12.8

Hi there, I am curious to know the game version you used to achieve these max stats.
DM or CSB
Atari or Amiga or PC
FTL or RTC or CSBwin

DM PC v3.4

Thanks for this Faster Than Light answer.
Once you have very powerful champions, I guess, you import them in CSB.
I see CSB is not available on PC platform.
How can one train in DM then import in CSB ?
I have done this many years ago on my Atari ST but it is not clear to me with DM PC, RTC, CSBwin.

I have undertaken this archmaster task, let's see if I have the will to see it through.

Probably not...

Good luck, Lee!

I was trying to follow Valerio's instructions on levelling my guys with the flame(s) on Chaos level. I failed, because I can't damage the fire except with vorpal blades (of which I have two, so I'm covered).
The problem is, I get no xp apparently. I hacked (jabbed) at the flame for half an hour, and no levelup. I 'killed' it a number of times(with vorpals), shortly it respawned etc. Killed again again ..
What am I missing here? He (Valerio)said he used punches on it. Do we get Xp even if we can't damage the creature?
I finished the game several times, a couple times on Amiga back then, and now on RTC too. I'm trying to squeeze some more fun from the game by trying to level up my guys to Archmaster in all skills. Rats are okay but the respawning is slow: only one rat at a time and you have to run to and fro the rat generating tile and back to their lair.
P.S. My guys are in the 'adept' skill ranges.
P.S.
Ninja skills seems to work, just got halk levelled in ninja skill by punching the flame.Maybe it would be the same as bashing a door? For non-vorpal weapons, still trying.
Also, the flame respawn rate when killed is rather quirky. Sometimes it respawns in a second, sometimes (mostly) it takes a while for it to respawn, like a minute or more...

Your characters can level up by punching the air (think of it like shadow boxing) but it's much slower then if they have a monster in front of them. Moves like punching, kicking, stabbing, shooting and throwing give ninja levels, moves like bashing, swinging thrusting and so on, give fighter levels, as does going toe-to-toe with a monster and taking damage. Casting wizard spells (and using the vorpal blade) gives wizard levels, and war cries, the horn of fear and priest spells, as have probably guessed, give priest levels.

If your characters are at a high enough level, it may just take a very long time to gain the next level by hacking at black flames with vorpal blades.

BTW, you can also use Des Ew to harm the black flames too.

Many thanks for your reply. So, basically, you say that every 'fighter' and 'ninja' action vs. the black flame is actually shadow fighting, except for vorpal blade actions and spells? Shadow fighting boosted by dungeon level and the proximity of an attacking hi-lvl creature? It simply blows my mind when I see those 4-class archmasters out there lol. The most I achieved was LO master wizzard and priest on my 4 characters. Because this time I am boosting my character's wisdom to 255 and mana generaton is high, so, much more spells are casted than in the 'normal' walkthrough.
On the Animated Armurs level there is a handy Materializers generator. The Materializers spawn just a couple tiles away, thankfully, behind a corner. With a bit of timing and sidestrafing it is easy to kill them off with DES+EW spells. They pack a wallop though. So, VI potions galore. Another thing: someone wrote that the magic shirld YA IR boosts your armour level. The fire shield should help to protect vs fire attacks, like ones from teh black flame. In my game, it looks like the shield vs fire doesn't help much, if at all. What DOES help is boosting dexterity to 255, then I get hit MUCH less. But the shield vs fire FUL+BRO+NETA doesn't seem to do anything. This is on RTC HD version.
I am mentioning Materializers because the black flame often take ages ro respawn, while the Materializer respawn tile works always(sometimes spawns 2 cretures), like the rat generating tile.The Oitu generator works Ok too, one must stay on the tile and wait for the tell-tale sound of the Oitu before running to him.

Is there not a method in CSBwin of
watching the numbers as you do your
'punching' and 'kicking'? Select window
size 1 and some numbers appear.

I am playing the Return To Chaos version, no numbers poppin up while fighting the black flame, except when using the vorpal blades.

Buligo wrote:I am playing the Return To Chaos version

That's too bad. I don't think anyone will ever know exactly
how that works. The best one can do is statistical analysis.

@ BULIGO: In RTC the fireshield does work differently then in, eg, the Amiga version, and it definitely is less effective, but it definitely does work, I can get my party to survive fireballs that would otherwise have 1HKO'ed them without the fireshield. In the Amiga verison, 3 or 4 fireshields stacked would reduce the damage from Viper Demons' fireballs, and black flames to 0. I could then let my fighters hack away at the dreaded viper demons if I felt like it. Not so in RTC, there is still at least some damage, but with 3 or 4 mon level fireshields, it is possible to reduce the damage of most mid-level fireballs to an insignificant amount. Mon level and dragon fireballs will still be problematic but survivable for a relatively strong party.

Seriously Unserious wrote:@ BULIGO: In RTC the fireshield does work differently then in, eg, the Amiga version, and it definitely is less effective, but it definitely does work, I can get my party to survive fireballs that would otherwise have 1HKO'ed them without the fireshield. In the Amiga verison, 3 or 4 fireshields stacked would reduce the damage from Viper Demons' fireballs, and black flames to 0. I could then let my fighters hack away at the dreaded viper demons if I felt like it. Not so in RTC, there is still at least some damage, but with 3 or 4 mon level fireshields, it is possible to reduce the damage of most mid-level fireballs to an insignificant amount. Mon level and dragon fireballs will still be problematic but survivable for a relatively strong party.

Thank you for your info!
All this time I was unsure about the usefulness of stacking shields. With my wisdom boosted to 200+, I have no mana problems regarding keeping the shields up (and stacked!), just was unsure if it was useful at all, or just one was required. Such and old game, so many things to learn

In the Amiga version, the fireshields always stacked, as far as I know, at least they did in the version I had. Towards the end of my playing the Amiga DM, I discovered that stacking 3 or 4 fireshields would render the black flames and viper demons' fireballs useless against the party. This doesn't happen in RTC, but they do definitely help still. I think RTC uses something a bit different to implement the fireshields which is why they work a bit differently, like maybe boosting anti-fire invisibly or something. Anyhow, it's amazing how even more then 30 years after the game was made, there still seems to be something new to learn, even for long time veterans of the game. I guess that's part of the reason this game is such a classic that it's still played even now by so many.

BULIGO wrote:I was trying to follow Valerio's instructions on levelling my guys with the flame(s) on Chaos level. I failed, because I can't damage the fire except with vorpal blades (of which I have two, so I'm covered).
The problem is, I get no xp apparently. I hacked (jabbed) at the flame for half an hour, and no levelup. I 'killed' it a number of times(with vorpals), shortly it respawned etc. Killed again again ..
What am I missing here? He (Valerio)said he used punches on it. Do we get Xp even if we can't damage the creature?
I finished the game several times, a couple times on Amiga back then, and now on RTC too. I'm trying to squeeze some more fun from the game by trying to level up my guys to Archmaster in all skills. Rats are okay but the respawning is slow: only one rat at a time and you have to run to and fro the rat generating tile and back to their lair.
P.S. My guys are in the 'adept' skill ranges.
P.S.
Ninja skills seems to work, just got halk levelled in ninja skill by punching the flame.Maybe it would be the same as bashing a door? For non-vorpal weapons, still trying.
Also, the flame respawn rate when killed is rather quirky. Sometimes it respawns in a second, sometimes (mostly) it takes a while for it to respawn, like a minute or more...

Hi Buligo!
You're doing right attacking the flame with conventional weapons! You still get experience (with the multipliers for being attacked and 'dungeon deepness') because it doesn't matter wether you deal damage or not. You could get experience for attacking the air at the entrance, yes, but it wouldn't be multiplied for doing it at the bottom of the dungeon (it should be x12 or x13) and for being attacked (x2).
It's surely the quickest way to get experience but keep in mind that it will take some hours for gaining the last levels.
I'm happy that someone is trying my path, feel free to ask me you have more doubts.
Bye bye

Valerio