DM finished! At least...

[Adamo]

Played DM on CSBwin, reincarnated Iaido, Zed, Wu Tse and Elija on non-DM rules:

Code: Select all

Killed     21 Scorpion(0)
Killed     57 SlimeDevil(0)
Killed     63 Giggler(0)
Killed    167 FlyingEye(0)
Killed     64 Hellhound(0)
Killed      4 5(0)
Killed     86 Screamer(0)
Killed     21 RockPile(0)
Killed     40 Rive(0)
Killed      5 StoneGolem(0)
Killed     63 Mummy(0)
Killed     18 BlackFlame(0)
Killed    132 Skeleton(0)
Killed     11 Couatl(0)
Killed      4 Vexirk(0)
Killed    102 Worm(0)
Killed    102 AntMan(0)
Killed     36 Muncher(0)
Killed      7 DethKnight(0)
Killed     35 Zytaz(0)
Killed      8 WaterElemental(0)
Killed     28 Oitu(0)
Killed      6 Demon(0)
Killed      0 LordChaos(0)
Killed      1 Dragon(0)
Killed      0 25(0)
Killed      0 GreyLord(0)

[beowuuf]

Wow, that's pretty high ranks for DM!

[Adamo]

All in all, when we`re talking about monsters, DM ones were extremally EASY (CSB was a lot more challenging), in contrary of some riddles, which were quite hard, that`s why in some situations I needed to take the answers from Ency - how else should I find the answer for "Grave of King Millias" riddle, that you need to put a coin into a wall crack? Generally I spent a lot of time tapping walls and searching for keys, but most of the time (90%) I were just wandering around permanently getting lost in a dungeon (which level I`m in and where were these damn doors?). That was annoying. But it`s my fault - levels were very big and twisted and I didn`t have maps! My problem with such games is that I get lost easily without maps and I can spend, say, 1 hour, serching for a priopriate door. In this case you need maps! That`s for the games with one, "regular" wallset. In games using various wallsets and many diversed decos, like Conflux, things are a lot easier; you know more or less which level or section you`re in, so you don`t need to spend 3 hours searching the path to the corridor on level 7 you wanna get.

Well, I just found there`s "double hard CDB dungeon" somewhere.

[oh_brother]

I remember getting to the tomb of King Milias the first time...actually I thought it was the easiest of the three puzzles near there. I got it fairly early, but the random button pressing (random for me at least) and the pit/door/teleporter were more difficult.

When I won for the first time of course there was no encyclopaedia or internet, so we were on our own. Looking back it is impressive how much patience we (my two brothers, a friend and I) had, we could have spent weeks in a particular area, forget about the game for awhile, come back try again, and eventually get through to the next puzzle. I don't think I would have the time or patience for that now.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, a group of us played at one point. Cool to have people able to give other people hints. Now the internet has too much information!

[Jan]

Congratulations, Adamo!

Looking back it is impressive how much patience we (my two brothers, a friend and I) had, we could have spent weeks in a particular area, forget about the game for awhile, come back try again, and eventually get through to the next puzzle. I don't think I would have the time or patience for that now.

Yeah. It's really interesting how much time we were able to spend playing one game when we were young. All the RPGs and adventures - with no help or walkthrough, these were really months. I would definitely have no time or patience for this now - and I really wonder if the kids nowadays would have the patience - perhaps no. Everything is so fast now, with the internet - they must have everything right NOW.

EDIT: Damn, BW was faster, again!

[Adamo]

Congratulations, Adamo!

there`s really no reason to congratulate; in fact, I got lost so much, that from some point I was cheating - I started to use Rick Gast`s maps
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/901

DM was (is) a really good game, but I think most of its most powerfull weapons you find at the end, when they`re not really needed. That`s why I would make deeper levels a lot more challenging and frustrating (hordes of ultra-fast demons, etc).
From all of FTL games (DM, DM2, CSB) I think CSB was the best and toughest one (I haven`t played Theron`s Quest yet).

[Jan]

I think most of its most powerfull weapons you find at the end, when they`re not really needed.

Indeed. I was always sad that The Inquisitor came so late. On the other hand, the Rapier and the Delta were also great. These are my favourite weapons. What are your favourite weapons, Adamo?

[beowuuf]

Well, they still come just before powerful foes, and give enough time to use them and perhaps drop them. The diamond edge before the knights and golems, and of course the inquisitor comes before not only the golems, but more importantly before the dragon. Good to have two berserk attacks for that!

[zoom]

Hardcleave has a good position. Level-deepness - wise(lv10) Could be a bit earlier(it is never too early!) to hack at the scorpions some more.
when you enter the scorpion area, you have to run and get it quickly. Sad that the next level has more incorporeal or ranged monsters and no real melee enemies, so not much use there..
Rapier is good against worms and has the perfect position. Not at the start of the worms, but some way in..Axe is found at the start of the wormarea(LV4)
the sword (hidden , really hidden at the very end of level 3) has positively the most shitty place to put a weapon ever.
You would need it , but not so near the axe.. before, for all the level 3, really you would have a use!
well, I could go on, about fury+ diamond edge(well...) morning star(bad place to put it) but enough..

[Jan]

Interestingly, I never use the Fury and the Diamond Edge. Somehow, I don't trust them. I just stick to the old good Delta. I also never use the morning star, and I rarely or almost never use the axes.

[beowuuf]

Level 11 has wasps and trolins. Especially the trolin path, you need decent attacks to clear it out!

Remember also you have to equip two characters usually, so the axe only does one. The fact the falchion and sword appear identical to play (not sure their differences mechanically) means it''s just a flavour thing ot dump the falchion for a cool sword.


Fury is placed right before you need to clear wasps and trolins. Or can be saved for the Oitus downstairs, or even the deomns/dragon.

I guess the problem with the variant weapons (like sabre, morning star, etc) are that melee option aside, they never appear to have any reason to go to them other than coolness factor of a new weapon. Still, just liek the various outfits, that might well be reason enough. And I guess its not assumed you will find all the weaposn - so two different weapons with melee, to balance gettign the axe with melee, might be reasonable.

[zoom]

Interestingly I do not use delta very much.. it is in such a contrived area and somehow I remember using other weapons **;)
but it has some power in it. anyone use mace ? or mace of order? Stun attacks anyone??!(is it the same hiddenskill like berserk)
**I think it was the vorpal blades for all the ghosts down there. Makes me remember, all levels have a unique feel. The wide and barren 8th level with ghosts, pit and lever contraptions on all the walls with a very large space in the middle, hidden pads , side halls. Mummies, appearing out of nowhere, fireball shooters-introduction to the gigglers- Ghosts.Scary level!



true, you could miss the hardcleave easily(but a bit of exploring would not hurt--oh well there are scorpions, riiight!)
and then the morning star could have with melee option some use. By that time, really morning star does not cut it.
But if you consider it is right in your face (you cannot miss it at all) it is the downgraded version of hardcleave.
Maybe it has some use against knights. whatever. The time you can enjoy the morning star is very limited.. For wasps it is too slow, and you find fury and if you survive it the diamond edge...

the sword, it is a cool weapon.(sword is the standard fighter weapon, no?) You do get the sabre earlier(again: probably(not)) Sabre has melee. (which you very likely cannot use yet at this point)You cannot grasp the sword earlier because you really need nearly all the gold keys to get to it. But cool ambush-mechanism, when you get to the sword- if you do not miss it


yeah, the fury is against the wasps for sure. I do not remember the trolins to be any great threat.
normally I do not bother with fury(or did not, since it has been a long time playing dm!)
, I dump it somewhere where all my stash is. I do not use it for oitus at all.

A recharge option for fury-or similar - would be super super cool...

Spoiler

much like mana potions work.
prepare the spell in advance , then use it for later. If done balanced.
bad mana ratio, set max amount of store-able fireballs.
could make it unrelyable have a set amount of mana stored and different power levels come out of the sword when you activate it.
(or: failure rate with noob - usage). more something for the endgame

what about the flame mitten? Maybe used by Lord CHaos to open his ful-ya oven or something...

Spoiler

or he forgot to put it on, he would then use both hands for attacks!! double-attack- Chaos..

[Trantor]

I'm confused. Was this the first time you finished original DM Adamo?
Nice stats anyway. Oh, and I agree with oh_brother that the Grave of King Milias was the easiest puzzle in that area.

[Bit]

I'm very surprised too. You are such an insider and care so much for the games and still didn't play the very basic one?
Or just not finished it? (for whatever reason)

[zoom]

I am not surprised. Adamo said it some time ago(few years?)
there are quite a many people who never completed the game

[Bit]

Do they save the best for the end?

[ian_scho]

Actually I never completed DM.... Sat with a friend and watched him do it!

[Jan]

Actually I never completed DM....

Ha! Gotcha! Tsk tsk! What a shameful shame!

[ian_scho]

Hey, I was the one that solved "I arch yet I have no back"!!! I'm heroic... Or at least in my mind I am

[Adamo]

well, I played both DM and CSB long time ago on Amiga, but never finished it before. Actually, I haven`t even go too far with DM. As far as I remember, I was stuck on the

Spoiler

bow/rabbit`s foot/gold coin

riddle, but I`m not sure..

[zoom]

So one Question remains:
why have you
Killed 4 !! 5(0)´s,
but no not a single one of those 25(0)´s ?

After all, you managed to defeat
64 Hellhounds(0),
Killed 132 Skeletons(0)
and 102 Worms(0), which are not few!

(what are those 25(0)´s and 5()´s ??)

[Jan]

Yeah, I had the same question in my mind - 167 Flying Eyes is a nice army...

[beowuuf]

Hey, I was the one that solved "I arch yet I have no back"!!! I'm heroic... Or at least in my mind I am

You will forever be a hero to me

[Adamo]

(what are those 25(0)´s and 5()´s ??)

These are so-called "unrecognized types", because the code doesn`t have names for them. 10 dollar question: which monsters are missing here on the list?

[Zyx]

rusters and Lord Order.
And congrats Adamo!

[zoom]

afaik, there is only one ruster?! Really weird numbers there Adamo..

[Adamo]

Zooom, there`s one type of ruster used in DM (CSBwin can use 3 alternate bitmaps for one monster type); i killed 4 of them during the game.

[zoom]

Yeah, I still do not get it: there is one type of ruster, only one ruster and they do not respawn.
you somehow managed to kill 4 of them, aparently using each time a different bitmap!!
I thought Alternate monster graphics was for custom dungeons only. It is only confusing now...

[beowuuf]

No, there isn't only one ruster. There is one in the initial corridor after rock/not rock, I believe a second in the room off that corridor, another one beyond the fireball corridor, and the fourth is ...somewhere ... They do not respawn, but there is not only one.

And the number in (0) tells what graphic they had. If it said 1 ruster(0) 1 ruster (1) then it would mean 1 ruster killed wiht original graphics, and 1 ruster killed with alt graphic 1. However, it says 4 'ruster' (0), which means the original graphics only were used.