stuck going for firestaff

[wu tse]

Hi to all, i am new to this site and forums. I started playing Dungeon Master last summer but i couldn't complete it. I kept my saved games though and i started from my last save. I find it a really great game, even compared with today's games in terms of atmosphere and gameplay mechanics and it was a shame that i didn't have the chance to play it when i was a kid. I am stuck in the game and i could really use some help. I want to head to the firestaff level but i can't find the way up. I collected 2 ra keys and the master key from the knights level, i used a skeleton key in the central stairway but i can go up till level 8 i think, that with some locked rats behind a closed metal door. I passed through the fireball room in that level but no luck from that point on. It's the same level where you go down the stairs and you see a message on the wall saying: "Beware my twisted humour, the deceiver the snake". But i am right up from this place. I want to finish this game, i don't know what i am doing wrong, thanks in advance for any help and keep up the good work on the site!

[beowuuf]

Welcome!

If you've got to the end of the knight level, and have the master key, you should be set. At the end of the rat level, in a small 2 x 3 room with a water fountain, is a RA key. Near there is also a corridor which ends at a skeleton key lock. If you did not unlock the skeleton lock on the level above (level 8, with the huge open area and skeletons, mummies and ghosts) then you won't have a short cut back I'm afraid. You'll need to walk all the way back through the rat level (passed the fireball corridor, through the mini-maze, etc) and then walk throug hthe huge open room in the level above to get the the firestaff level again.

With the three keys, you should be able to then open the firestaff level. There is one final key you need - the ruby key from the end of level 11, that requires an item from the end of level 10. If you've opened the skeleton stairwell, you should be able to quickly backtrack. If not, you might need to fight your way through again to those areas first I'm afraid!

[Jan]

Hi, Wu Tse, and welcome to the forums!

If you cannot backtrack from the level with the rats and fireball rooms, don't forget that you have entered that level in a special way - can you remember how? It was

Spoiler

through a fake wall (at the "When rock is not rock")

.

[wu tse]

Thank you for your fast replies! First time i unlocked a skeleton lock somewhere in the knight level and when i tried to go in the firestaff level i couldn't do it. Then i tried again and i unlocked a different one, the one that unlocks user chaos5482 on youtube (he must be a member on this forum). It's a speedrun but i clearly saw which lock he unlocked. Still no luck. Maybe i didn't unlock the skeleton lock on the level with the ghosts, if i knew i would do it! So if the firestaff level is number 7, i am at level 9. I will try again going through the fireball room. I don't really remember how i entered this level, it's been a year! But i remember the fake wall and the "when rock is not rock" message. It's good that i am not missing any keys, i have 3 ra (i used 1), the master and the ruby. I hope i can do this, i will let you know. Thanks again and cheers from Athens!

[beowuuf]

The skeleton stairwell needs unlocked from the outside in multiple places, and simply lets you get back upstairs quickly. The levl 8 way still needs opened up from level 8, etc.

Yes, if you have those keys, you are almost there... is Just need to get back through the ghosts, and you will be on your way!

Good luck!

[Gambit37]

If you have three ra keys, the ruby key and the master key, you can open the firestaff room. Although you need to open the ruby key room on the firstaff level to find a fourth ra key too. It sounds like you're simply lost -- where EXACTLY are you at the moment? Have you looked at the maps, see here:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=taxonomy/term/17,42
NOTE: The maps shown here start numbers at 00, so the rat level which many of us call "Level 9" is actually Level 8 on that web page.

[wu tse]

I have maps and i think it's time to use them. The above link is more helpful because these maps you provide are more detailed than these i have. I am exactly at the fireball room of the 8 level according to the dmweb site maps and i will try to find stairs up. Thanks again!

[wu tse]

I have managed to do it mates! My problem was in the water fountains where you move backwards and you pass to the other side of the wall and you read "when rock is not rock". I wasn't moving backwards there and i was ending up at the same place. I am one level away from the firestaff level now. I wish they make so good and addictive games in our days. Is Chaos Strikes Back as good as the original? Then i will give it a try after i finish this one. Thank you.

[oh_brother]

I thinks so, though it is different. Not as linear, much more easy to get lost. You need to figure out the basic layout of the dungeon for it to make sense, it only clicked with me when I played it last year.

But it is not as hard as I thought it was when I played it first, if you keep at it you can make it.

And it is a really great game, especially if you bring your champions from DM!

[Adamo]

Gambit is right, check out the maps. Apart from the maps, Rick made a walkthrough; this might help you a lot:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/901
http://dmweb.free.fr/files/DM-Walkthrough-RickGast.pdf
As for the Chaos Strikes Back, it`s even better, harder and more exciting to DM!!!

[wu tse]

I have Rick's walkthrough and maps and they are helpful, i just couldn't remember backtracking near the fountains and looking for the hidden wall. The only thing that bothers me on this game is that i easily get lost without maps but i think i'll try CSB, especially if i transfer my champions from DM. That would be cool but it could create unbalances if the heroes were very strong from the start. Maybe i am wrong, i am not so experienced.

[Adamo]

Importing champions from DM is not good idea. It would make the game a lot easier. Reincarnating CSB heroes would be better. They should gain experience very quickly, as CSB levels has high XP multipliers. By the way, when you`ll finish CSB, try Conflux III - the greatest custom of all!

[beowuuf]

Uhuh, how about playing with the ressurected characters until you get the dungeon? Fighting three worms with zero level (reduced, don't forget reduced) character stats is not fun! Not at first, anyway

[Ameena]

Yeah, I would say take your DM characters through to CSB - it feels better, somehow, to complete it all with your original team you took from the very start of DM . If you're getting lost in DM, I imagine you will find CSB to be completely and totally confusing and you'll get lost even more and be rather clueless most of the time...but don't worry - that's how pretty much all the rest of us originally found it, too . You can just ask us for hints or whatever if you get totally stuck.
Oh, hello and welcome, btw .

[Gambit37]

Importing champions from DM is not good idea. It would make the game a lot easier.

Well that's not true at all: if you didn't excessively train your characters in DM, and then just played through normally, then they are not too powerful for CSB. If you ended up with a few LO master skill levels and health around 300-400, that's a good yardstick for being well balanced for the CSB dungeon.

[zoom]

Gambit is right, CSB - Champions have , btw the better stats. Who starts with 120 Health or 40! mana in DM?
Mana is much much more in Csb than dm

[Trantor]

Welcome to the forums from me too! Great to hear from other people who love this game!
Definitely go and play CSB after you finish DM! I think it's even better as a game, though much harder and intense. It's also very easy to get lost, though the game is a bit smaller than DM. Do NOT listen to Adamo with importing champions! Definitely use your DM-proven heroes, you are going to need them! Let us hear how it goes, we will gladly answer any questions you may have!

[T0Mi]

Have fun with CSB once you're done with DM. I've only finished CSB once in my life, back on the Atari ST and it took almost a year. Rumours were spread it is possible to finish CSB in something like 7 minutes. I'm sure there were strange relativistic effects involved in this.

Back when I first played CSB, I've imported my chars (Hissssa, Sonja, Stamm and Halk) from DM and used the avatars representing their increased experience. It really felt like continuing the story. But since they were at the end of their career, there was almost no more leveling going on, so I took newbie (reincarnated) chars from the CSB prison and restarted. They gained levels like crazy.

You can train in the prison before entering the main dungeon - there are 2 illusionary walls and a level below with mummies and rockpiles, making the initial worm room alot easier. You can still use the pictures of your favorite chars from DM if you want, you just have to replace the character graphics (using ADGE).

Be sure to check out the custom dungeons. Conflux for sure, but there are a lot of other dungeons really worth playing. Many of them can easily compete against the original ones + almost all of them feature custom wallsets. (Just in case you got bored by the same grey walls over and over again)

There is one major difference between CSB and Conflux though: in CSB finding yourself back at the beginning (at the Junction of the ways), you think:
"Ah, no. *sigh* I'm back where it all started" while in Conflux you think "Wow! I made it back intact and I'm not cursed, poisoned, insane, deseased and most of all still somewhat alive." However, this thought is the last just a moment before you die another twisted death.

[wu tse]

Well, thank you all for welcoming me and giving me an idea of what to do, i am glad that a community about an old game is strong, we must not forget our childhood I am close to complete DM, in a week i will have more free time to finish it. Then i will play CSB and according to your comments i might try to use Wu Tse, Syra, Iaido and Zosis (i renamed Halk) from DM. They are relatively strong by now but i think this sense of continuation from one game to another feels right. I am a bit confused with terms like "import","resurrect" and "reincarnate". If i want to keep my original team with full statistics, my choice would be resurrect, am i right? When the time comes i am sure that i 'll have something more to ask you.

[beowuuf]

For CSB, you can do two things - choose new champions, or import your old champions. If you import your old champions, they have the stats they had in your last saved game. If you select new CSB champions, you have the same options as in DM - you get to take them with no skills (reincarnate) or their old skills (ressurect). CSB champions are much more powerful than the starting DM characters, but because of this, if you reincarnate them, you will find their base stats actually decrease. In DM, reincarnating actually gained you a few sub-stats and change in the base stats.

[wu tse]

Oh, i see, well i think i might use the "import" option. I saw in dmweb that Wu Tse has a "steal" skill but i don't see an option in the actual game.

[beowuuf]

The 'steal' skill is just the name given to a sub-set of experience points for ninjas. I don't believe its actually used anywhere, it's not a real skill as such.

[wu tse]

I was away for a week and i finally finished the game It's never too late, right? I managed to kill the dragon and it wasn't that hard as i had read in that walkthrough (not by Rick Gast, the other), i was just circling that column chasing him or he was chasing me and i was hitting him and moving backwards. So, some of the fire elementals were not dying, they kept popping out, that was unfair, a small complaint here. Lord Chaos was stepping away from the fluxcages but i pushed him in a corner. Is is a way to see the alternate ending? Oh, when i went all the way down the central stairway i saw a wall with a keyhole. Where can i find that key and where does the corridor leads? Have a good month all, i hope not so hot!

[Trantor]

Congratulations on finishing DM!
You can see the "alternate ending" of DM if you take the Firestaff without the Power Gem all the way back to the entrance of the dungeon. Once you add the Power Gem to the Firestaff, you cannot go back up, however, as walls will block your way out of level 13 (the one with Lord Chaos). You can sort of cheat if you throw the upgraded Firestaff out of the room where the Power Gem is located. That way, the walls won't close.

I suppose the keyhole you talk about has the IR rune on it (looks like an italic E). You can find the corresponding key (the Winged Key) in level 7, the Firestaff level. Behind the Ruby Key door (in the area with all the items and scrolls) you can find a button on one of the walls. A passage will open up. In there, in a long corridor, there is another well-hidden button that opens up a wall where the Winged Key is. You can also find a second long stairway there that leads to level 13.

Now, have fun with CSB!

[Jan]

Oh, congratulations, Wu Tse, well done!

Trantor answered all your questions with the illustrious German precision, so I cannot say anything else.

[beowuuf]

Congratulations!

[wu tse]

Thank you mates, you've been really helpful! I was wondering if my ending sequence was right, i mean, without a bug or something. When i defeated Lord Chaos a cinematic played where an old man threw the firestaff in the fire and some folks from Viborg village were happy. But in the speedrun of a youtube user (i have mentioned it above) when Lord Chaos was defeated, an old man appeared in front of the warrior (it was only one, not a group of four) and he told him something appropriate for the end, then the user saw his warrior in the hall of fame and there was no cinematic or the user didn't show it to the video. Either way, i didn't have the chance to chat with that old man and see my group in the hall of fame. Bug or what?

[Lord Firestaff]

Thank you mates, you've been really helpful! I was wondering if my ending sequence was right, i mean, without a bug or something. When i defeated Lord Chaos a cinematic played where an old man threw the firestaff in the fire and some folks from Viborg village were happy. But in the speedrun of a youtube user (i have mentioned it above) when Lord Chaos was defeated, an old man appeared in front of the warrior (it was only one, not a group of four) and he told him something appropriate for the end, then the user saw his warrior in the hall of fame and there was no cinematic or the user didn't show it to the video. Either way, i didn't have the chance to chat with that old man and see my group in the hall of fame. Bug or what?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think the different versions have different endings.
The Atari ST version, which was also used for CSBWin, has the ending with the old man appearing and talking to you, and the ending screen with your champion's stats.
The Amiga and PC Version have this animated ending sequence where the old man thows the firestaff in the fireplace.

[Trantor]

Almost right Lord Firestaff; the cinematic ending sequence was for the PC only. The Amiga version also has the Grey Lord congratulating you in simple plain text, just like the Atari ST version.

[wu tse]

Oh, then it makes sense. That must be the amiga version, it looks identical with the pc version.