Not fed up

[Trantor]

Chani a dude? Manboobs galore...

[Chaos-Shaman]

hahahahaha, she needs a few more coloured pixels to look femanine.

[Jan]

Or just fewer yellow pixels?

[Chaos-Shaman]

hahahahaha, i've seen bigger manboobs. truly she was my fave when i first played it back in 88 or was it 89. she gained levels quickly.

[slide]

OK. I thought I'd give the group an update. I'm pretty well stuck again. I've had the dickens surviving in the twisted maze due to the regenerating eyeballs which are at least as potent as the ones in the hallways. After dying maybe 20 times, I figured out that I can use the corners to melee with them before they can bring their fireballs to bear.

I managed to make it to two doors with an inscription something like choose a door. I can't find the key to either door. I have been over the area many times but no key. I thought maybe the key is held in a secret place like a fake wall, but I can't find that. I can't find a push button. I thought maybe the trick was that the eyeballs are carrying it but I can't find it after killing (by now) maybe 50 of them I did kill a skel but I can't find a key he dropped. I hear another skel but can't find it.

I am open for an outright spoiler now. I'm weary of this twisted place & the eyeballs (again!!) & just want to move on. How do I open one or both of these darned doors? BTW, is there a back door cheat here allowing me to advance the game to me being beyond these doors? I've been over the twisted maze many times & I can't find the key or a hiding place. Thanks.

[slide]

hahahahaha, i've seen bigger manboobs. truly she was my fave when i first played it back in 88 or was it 89. she gained levels quickly.

I will if I ever find one & I'll also check the stats out on the jewelery.

[Ameena]

According to my map, the key you need is

Spoiler

a Key of B, found on the floor in the square directly between the two doors (which presumably is the same square as the "Choose a door" message, but wall text isn't shown in my book so I can't say

.

[slide]

Thanks. I'll check again. Looking backward at this thread, others have said how difficult it is to find gray keys on the gray floor in RTC. I"m agreeing very much so.

[Trantor]

If I am not mistaken, one of the Wizard Eyes carries the key. The key is definitely in that area, not hidden behind a wall or something.

[Jan]

Trantor, you're talking about the Wizard Eye

Spoiler

inside the right passage / behind the right door - it does have the second key

. Slide was asking about the key to enter any of the passages - and here, Ameena was right - the first key

Spoiler

lies in front of the doors directly in front of the "Choose a door" inscription

.

[slide]

I found the key per Ameena's spoiler which I was very grateful to have. I found it almost impossible to detect even looking closely just where it was. I walked over and looked at that area at least 10x before. I'm now moving again. I keep getting on some sort of conveyor belt & then tossed back a level but I am not looking for more hints. All I care about is I"m moving.

Spoiler

BTW, there were two more keys one of which was in an eyeball.

[beowuuf]

Glad you are having fun with it!

[Ameena]

Yes, there are two more keys (one, as you mentioned, in a Beholder, the other

Spoiler

in a scorpion through the other door

). But you can't get to either of them until you've unlocked one of the doors with the first key, so I saw no reason to mention it .
Ahh, good old "Zoooooom"...fun times .

[slide]

Hi All,

I thought I'd give an update on my progress or lack thereof.

I have found the going to be much together from the rat area / level. It's almost as if this is another game. I sort of cruised through things until I hit the eyeballs and then hit one eyeball after another experiencing a good deal of difficulty each time. I have to say that this form of foe has gotten tedious. I venture to say tha the designers of RTC DM over did the power of these things and also the number of them.

Anyway, moving slowly and saving very often, I managed to move my way downward. Not only were the monsters more challenging, but the layout seems a good deal more complex. Well, not all monsters were more difficult. At one point I encountered what I take it to be huge yellow scorpions which were very easy to deal with because they exist in places where I can hit, move, hit, move and so forth. Shortly after this, I went into a place where I had to walk backwards for a while. I never did figure out how I managed to get out of there. I just ran forwards and backwards like crazy and eventually found the keys needed to open a way out up. I can't even write a spoiler for that place.

The next area was difficult because I ran into a new sort of problem in the form of angry water puddles. For a while I couldn't figure out how to hit these things but then remembered those wiggly black swords which seemed to work more or less. Still, they were tough. OTOH, they don't hit very hard.

I'm now past them on a level with guys in ancient armor. These are, so far, the easiest foes to deal with since the rockpiles. I mean these guys are sloooow. They are the first in a long while I can get behind, whack twice, and then run around to be behind them again and give them another two whacks. I've taken on two of them and between them, they haven't gotten one hit back on my team.

I proceeded on, found another RA key and then ran into some floating squids with huge heads. I ran away from them because I have no idea what this may be. As I'm almost out of water and food, my plan now is to retreat back using the skel key passage. I'll return to the rat nest and re provision.

If I never see another *&#&#& eyeball again, I"m ok with it.

[Ameena]

Well, if you want to know whether there's more Beholders in store for you, the answer is

Spoiler

No, not unless you return to either of levels Six or Ten, so you can breathe a sigh of relief there

.
Meanwhile, it sounds like you've got to level Twelve, so gratz on that . For the levels you've just done, the Scorpions on level Ten are probably the enemies with the scariest attack noise, I think. Still, a few good Mon-level fireballs (or whatever I can usually manage to cast by that stage) tends to deal with them so I can usually get past them okay .
That bit you say about having problems with running backwards and stuff I'm guessing is the start of level Eleven, with the "Clockwise" and "Turn Back" bit, where you're running around a large square corridor and keep getting teleported between abotu four different versions of it and eventually you find a door and a all opens behind it and stuff. Yeah, I have problems there too, lol - just end up pretty much doing what you did and running around until I get attacked by a Giant Wasp, in which case I know I've got the way through opened . For the bit just after that where you have to choose one path, I always take the one with the Blue Trolls, 'cause they're the easiest to kill (the other two have Wasps and Water Elementals, respectively - from the sounds of it you took the latter). It doesn't really matter which route you take, as none of the three has anything particularly special down it so you're not really missing anything in the paths you don't take.
And as for Level Twelve...Knights are kind of annoying...I like to use the hit-and-run technique, though there's a couple of places where killing stuff is made much easier on that level - if you want to know, it's

Spoiler

that there are a couple of spots, both on corners, which monsters can't pass, so you can hide around the corner and just keep poking your head round and donking them with something and take your time about it

. The "floating squids" you mention are

Spoiler

called Spell Vines, though some people know them as Materialisers. I find them by far the most annoying of themobs on that level.

. There is another type of monster on level Twelve which you've not mentioned -

Spoiler

Giant Spiders, also known by the really weird name of "Oitu". Alright so they only have sort-of four legs so they're not really arachnids, but as it's the name I first learnt for them, it's the one i just stick with

.
Going back to resupply if you're running low is probably a good idea (because, you know, you don't want your team to starve five minutes from the end of the game or whatever ), although

Spoiler

you'll be coming back that way fairly soon anyway, depending on how much trouble you encounter during the rest of level Twelve

. This is because you now only need

Spoiler

one more key, which you should hopefully recognise when you find it as being important - it's the last of the four keys you need (you've now got all three Ra keys, I gather) to open the way through back on level Seven

.
Regarding the Central Stairwell (the Skeleton Key one), if I didn't mention it before you might want to know that

Spoiler

there is one key too few in the game, so you can never fully open the stairwell all the way down to the bottom level - the one I tend to miss out now is the one on level Twelve (where you are now, with the Knights and stuff), because that level is such an arse

.
Hope you get on okay with the rest of the game now - it sounds like you're having a much easier time of it in the later levels .

[beowuuf]

If you found the RA key and the odd guys, then you are so close to the end! So yeah, restock, and then hopefully onwards to the end of the game (well, with one or two diversions first)

[slide]

Thanks, Ameena for the hints. I haven't opened any yet because I'm still making progress. Yeah, I'm probably missing some things. I did also hit a giant crab (orange) in the armored guy (12) level but only one. I dropped a door on it & hit it with a few fireballs. Easy stuff.

Oh, so the blue things are blue trolls. I figured they were blue cavemen. I've been throwing that same spell as harmed the green ghosts at the water puddles. I think it is working but not sure.

Besides needing to restock, I want to see how many more RA keys I need to get behind the rainbow barriers on the level above the big room. I was a bit disappointed that the RA key I found didn't do anything but reveal another rainbow. Well, I'll see what I get when I get there. No, not looking for a hint. As I said earlier, as long as I'm moving along, I'm happy to try this alone.

I am beginning to think that this would be easier with a duo. I have only one master at this point. I'd guess if I did a solo or a duo, the natural progress would have me at a higher level for the solo or duo plus less issue with food and water. I'd not have made such fast progress down to L6 or so, but by the time I got there, I'd be at better levels. The idea of training for hours and hours in the plant or rat room just doesn't stir my blood any.

When you experts start a new game, do you duo, solo or full team?

[beowuuf]

Solo usually, unless I think the dungeon needs a full party. Other people good st the game seem to like the duo. I can never stress this often enough - even if RTC, a solo or duo party lets you spin out of the way of single spells. So very, very cool

[slide]

Spinning out of the fireballs thrown by eyeballs would make this a lot easier. If I do another, it will be a solo or duo. I'm thinking Tiggy and Wuuf or just one of those guys. I figure it's easier to start with a lot of mana than an ability to whack.

[beowuuf]

Oddly, I play the other way and have solo'd low magic guys (and no magic for DM) first! I find their higher health/stamina and ability to always do damage better than needing to recharge your mages and run them away from danger all the time. Depends on playing style, of course.

[Jan]

I almost always play solo - usually with a relatively balanced character like Chani.

[slide]

Interesting POV's here. I may be all wrong, but I gave up on Ninja powers long ago because these attacks didn't seem very effective and it's tedious to reload. So I use magic exclusively for ranged attacks and also use ranged attacks whenever possible. That led me to a strong magic user as my duo or solo.

I wouldn't have supposed the game is possible w/o magic. That is, I can see a non fighter getting to where I am, but not a non magic user.

[beowuuf]

Some weapons use ninja levels, punching also uses ninja skills, and its free health/stamina (if you use thrown items when you can and punch damage resistant critters)

There are one or two areas where you need magic (some optional), but because certain items gift mana, you can gets your non-magic or low magic fighters to a decent level in magic by the time it really matters!

It's a minor thing, but in RTC (can't remember for DM itself) damage grants fighter experience, so going toe to toe can give you benefits if you can keep up healing!

[Sophia]

It's a minor thing, but in RTC (can't remember for DM itself) damage grants fighter experience, so going toe to toe can give you benefits if you can keep up healing!

In DM, being damaged by monsters grants fighter experience. RTC used to (and maybe still does) give you fighter experience for falling down pits or bumping into walls, which is not the same as DM.

[Ameena]

Lol - "Orange crab"...yeah, those are the Giant Spiders (also known as "Oitus") I mentioned, with the weird legs and the body in the middle and who make the same screeching noise as Screamers. Various monsters are known by different names so you might find some things referred to in different ways by people on here .
That spell you mention using on the Water Elementals and Ghosts is the Harm Non-Material Being spell, if that name's enough of an indication as to what it's used for .
Regarding my usual style of play (though I wouldn't call myself an "expert" as such ), I always used to play with the full four, before I joined here and saw people taking about doing solo runs and stuff. I'd never even considered the idea of using less than four before then - it had just never occurred to me. So after experimenting a bit I found that two is my preferred number of characters to take - one isn't enough for me because I run out of inventory space and mana and stuff and can't quite cope with it. Three's just a weird number and I can't see any particular benefit from it. Four is, of course, generally the standard but you have four people to share the exp and stuff between. But with two, there's enough inventory space to be getting along with, enough mana to cast spells to kill stuff before needing to run away (I never bother training - sod that, lol...I just get all my exp as I go), and I have the option to do the "turn sideways" trick to avoid incoming spells, on the rare occasion that I actually think of it . My usual duo is Ameena Shadowscale and Fippy Darkpaw, as reincarnated from the creatures formerly known as Hissssa and Wuuf .
If you take characters who have no mana (or not enough to cast a spell to gain levels), as mentioned there are some items which increase the character's maximum mana when equipped - you can have them cast stuff whilst holding/wearing one or more of these items until they start gaining Wizard/Priest levels, which increases their mana until you won't need to equip the mana-granting items any more because they can cast spells with their natural store of mana .

[slide]

@Sophia - guess I'm better off in RTC then because I sure bump into many walls looking for fake walls or just being clumsy or running away.

@Ameena - I'd think that after you've been through you know what materiel you need at each place so you can only keep those things which are useful. Like I needed what I suppose is a magnifying glass at one place & didn't have it. Beats me if I ever had it but if I did, I probably dropped it along the way.

I don't doubt I can take a PC with 0 mana and build it up by holding things but this smacks a bit of spending days in the little tree room. Also I've found that this place really opens up but from the bottom. So now for me to get to the little tree (screamer?) room, all I need do is climb some stairs and then do a level or two. The blue curtains make things even faster.

While roaming about the level with the gray giants, I stumbled upon yet another passage connecting to the skull passage. Down a few levels I found a guy dressed like batman. I figure maybe this is an NPC who will tip me off about what I'm about here. No - I don't want a spoiler. I just ran away and am now trying to get to the center of the odd circular sort of maze to see what's in there (firestaff?). Maybe I'll find Superman and Wonder Woman guarding it now that we have Batman on the scene.

[beowuuf]

It's not really a spoiler, RTC doesn't come with the full manual so you might have missed this is Lord Chaos - the guy you need to beat!

[Ameena]

Rofl, a "guy dressed like Batman"? Omg that's fantastic . You might want to possibly go to the DM Encyclopaedia (website is dmweb.free.fr) and find the DM manual and just read the intro backstory thingy, which is about all the info you ever get on wtf you're supposed to do in this game .
With regard to training warriors in magic, no, it doesn't take long - you can tell which items give you free mana by watching the mana bar when you equip it - since the item increases the maximum mana, the person's mana will appear to go down when you equip an item because only the maximum is increased, not the current mana. So if someone only has two mana points and you equio something which gives them an additional three, their max will go to five while their current will remain at two until it regenerates, so their mana bar wil appear to jump down to just below half when you equip the item. Then just cast spells (Lo-Ya potion is the cheapest spell, but Lo-Ful is good too) until they gain a level in whichever caster skill you're practising - yes you will probably have to sleep a bit but once you gain one level that will hopefully get them enough mana that you don't need to equip the thing any more. The items that give you free mana are magic items, the kinds of things you would associate with a wizard or a priest holding. I think one or two characters may start off with magic-granting items at the start of DM, but failing that there are several you can get hold of over the course of the first couple of levels.

[slide]

Good point. I thought that I'd just wander through and at the end of the levels either fight the foozle, wear the foozle or something obvious when I get to the foozle. I now realize that I set off just to go and see what this legendary game is about. I have no idea why I'm fighting everything along the way. I figured maybe I'd hit a few NPC's who'd tip me off about why I'm doing what I'm doing, but now realize that it's pretty far down & no NPC's so far.

@beowolf - OK, so that isn't Batman after all. I didn't really think it was but that's the only way I could describe the guy. So I need to beat him. I'm guessing that the magic staff is part of it so for now I'll concentrate on trying to figure out how to get that out. I'm reprovisoned after my trip to the little screaming tree room so ready to once again descend.

[Ameena]

Hehe yeah, there are no NPCs - the only indication as to what you're supposed to do is in the intro story thingy in the manual - basically, this dude called the Grey Lord was experimenting with a staff he'd made called the Firestaff and it whoopsied up a bit, and now he's disappeared and there's two new Lords - Lord Order (aka Lord Librasulus) and Lord Chaos. Lord Chaos is the "Batman" chap you've already met, who's basically taken over the grey Lord's subterranean realm (inside a mountain called Mount Anaias) and twisted it and stuff to change the layout and create all the lovely monsters you've been meeting. Lord Order is on the surface, and can't enter the dungeon so he's sent you down instead to get him the Firestaff while he waits back just outside the dungeon entrance. Level Seven (with all those Ra doors and the Stone Giants) is the Grey Lord's lab where he did his stuff with the Firestaff and it contains, among other things, stuff from his experiments, including notes on the nature of the Firestaff itself.