What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

thanks terkio, i've had these numbers before :)

problem is with the 97% scientists, they are paid from the gov. they'd have to pay the public to get the same results, i've learned through the course of studying psychology how the mind works. the (don't knows) should be 97%, they really don't know. the scientists, being human and go home to use all the things they know they shouldn't won't come forth, they won't get paid and it works against them. speak up and you lose (cloud) respect and they chop their own foot off, the rest of them will be glad to chop them up to bits, it works against what they're saying and puts their beliefs (that which pays them) in hot water :)

that said, check out stats on our sun these days, also check stats (volcanic activity) check out magnetism and how things are not as we'd expect. i have said from the very beginning of this thread how we don't know enough, but what we do know should not be a nail to kill off human kind because we can't use oil or coal. try and cut that off and see the human loss of life begin. i am not for mans suffering through draconian measures that some believe will save the planet which i can tell you it does nto need saving. nature will do what we think needs to be done. and MONEY is the shit of it all. we made it to grow, we made currency to help trade, it was not made to control our public through fear.

now that being said, that's why kyoto, the dumbest plans of all have failed. countries really suffer with it, just look at Japan, mostly nuclear but has had to put a door stopper on it, and boy are they feeling the pain, they now have stepped back on their emissions goal because it is a human disaster waiting.. so what do they do, they're buying carbon credits so they can pollute. this shows that no matter what, we're going to burn coal and oil for as long as it exists. the whole idea of controlling it is stupid. Japan shouldn't even be the 4th largest industrial nation, it can't even produce its own energy, it has no natural resources. i mean, that's pretty stupid for humans to do that right, create an industry with no natural reources right. they're eating their words, paying through the roof. a country that is still suffering for the last 15 years from gov control, now has an energy crisis that they nailed themselves to. it isn't difficult to see that Japan should not be the 4th largest industrial nation. i hope you see my point here.

lastly, there is no way this gens scientists have nature figured out, again i can state the obvious here, WE THINK WE KNOW EVERYTHING, far from it man.

thanks for the reply terkio, i enjoy the efforts towards understanding :)
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by terkio »

There is actually 2 "Global Warming" debates.
The debate among scientists.
The debate in the media.
My post was about the tremendous gap in between.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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i enjoy chatting about it, i really do. almost every day i am in a debate with others, pro and con, most of the time it is the same story, so i hear read it over and over, much of it is the same people, i can follow their histories and point out the repeat of same copy and paste from the same gov sites. they did not step out of the box in their thinking, that's the advantage these days, you can study what others say to see how consistant they are. i take no pleasure in telling people what they don't want to hear, i only get bad vibes, but somebody has to open the box for them. most of the time they are just kids, brainwashed heavily by others, like Al Gore with some kind of prop, whether it be a polar bear on ice or some bucket showing a hockey stick. i usually see the same thing over and over, quite normal when they want to brainwash you, that's what they'll do. i mean that is just the same as a TV commercial, they want to do the same as well. there is a great show called Brain Games, shows how easy it is for people to want to belong, want to believe especially in this case, where the goal is a desired one. who doesn't want a green thriving world if you know what i mean.

what bothers me the most is the ignorance i run across, mostly in the form of that those who don't believe in it are uneducated and don't know a damn thing or we're being paid by an oil company, quite the opposite to that but i still get off on letting them think it.
i love to hear what others have to say, on both sides. seems i have read just about everything that supports AGW, now they come out with how this is dying, and this is dying, no more science being put out, just sob stories. AGW deneirs keep handing out new science, like the article from the geologists that SUGGEST (i see this on both sides of science articles) i mean, who was around back then, they suggest that the oceans were much warmer than they are today, yet the air temperatures were cooler. this is pointing away from CO2 as the culprit, not towards. these guys are scientists, just as credidble. i think the scientists will be coming out of the box once we don't warm anymore, like this year, it is freezing pretty much for much of the N hemisphere. i think people need to freeze to see the dangers of NOT using coal and oil, we need it more than we think, just need a couple of bad winters to show them how important it is, they'll be begging for the greenhouse effect.

i love debates, thanks terkio for the links.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/long-invisible-re ... 04355.html

well, this group of scientists are letting the CO2 out of the bag, they admit we know little about volcanoes and its gas emissions, of course most are under water and we don't know when they are going off or not. we need to study so much more before we make a 95% assumption that it's all mans fault, poppycock. we need at least 100 if not 1000 years of study and satellite data, not 30 years at best data, sheer nonsense and is not scientific to not study all the possiblities before making the Al Gore assumptions. we think we know, but a true scientist knows the more they know, the more they don't know. earth has been falling in temps for 17 years, how many more years is needed before we as a sane bunch will finally speak up and say, "hey, we're still getting cooler"

yes the Arctic is melting, we all know that, but it's melting from beneath and by black soot on top and not so much from CO2 heating it up.

fact, this year the Arctic has gained more sea ice than any time previously recorded so far.
Ironically enough, the Antarctic gaining ice can actually be a sign of warming temperatures there, as the intense cold makes the area a desert in terms of annual precipitation, but when the temperature warms up there a bit, it's still cold enough for ice and snow to occur, but warm enough for more precipitation to occur also, thus more ice forming. In the long run though, such warming would eventually lead to shrinking ice caps as summer melt begins to exceed winter snowfall.

As for volcanic activity, yes it can melt ice in a localized area, where the activity creates enough heat for this to happen, but for the effect to be truly wide spread there would have to be a super-volcano of the magnitude of, say, Yellowstone Park, to cause effects over a very large area, or a new rift forming, such as the Rift Valley in eastern Africa, but those form very slowly over millions of years, not suddenly.

Most likely there are more forces at work melting the major ice sheets then just volcanic activity melting them from below.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:thanks terkio, i've had these numbers before :)

problem is with the 97% scientists, they are paid from the gov.
... and the gov. is heavily lobbied by big industries like heavy manufacturing and petrochemical, who have a vested interest in the climate not changing, and if it is, keeping such knowledge fully suppressed. To have knowledge that human activities, and particularly their activities/products are a major contributing factor in the problem would cause a huge hit to the profitability of such industries, especially the petrochemical, as people, out of necessity start finding cleaner ways to do things, and using less of their products (eg oil). Gov earns huge taxes off of the petrochemical industry and the politicians who form gov, get huge campaign donations from this industry as well. Gov and big business mainly have a vested interest in there not being any global warming or rapid, human caused climate changes of any sort.

So scientists who are proponents of global warming/climate change as being human caused and happening would actually have a harder time finding work and funding from the big money interests then those who deny any such thing is going on. That's why the data was there as early as the 1960's that we are royally messing our planet, and home up, but very few talking about it back then, let alone working on any sort of solution. It hasn't been until the late 1990's that global warming or climate change of any sort was really given mainstream credibility and even then only because the signs were becoming so blindingly obvious that the scientists just couldn't ignore it or remain silent any more. I'm talking about the trend of warmer temperatures, increasingly sever and frequent storms, increasingly common unusual weather such as droughts where it should be wet and flooding where it should be dry, etc.

I don't know where you're getting your data on average global temperatures dropping over the past 17 years, but according to the readings shown on siteNASA GISS Surface Temperature Analysis site global temperatures have risen by almost 1.5 degrees Celsius since 1880, with no 17 year cool-down period at all. In terms of geological time, that's faster then the speed of light, unheard of for temps to change globally that rapidly.

The data doesn't lie, temperatures, on a global level, are heating up rapidly. That's not to say there aren't areas that are locally cooling off, there most certainly are, but overall, the average temperatures across the planet are warming up.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Ironically enough, the Antarctic gaining ice can actually be a sign of warming temperatures there, as the intense cold makes the area a desert in terms of annual precipitation, but when the temperature warms up there a bit, it's still cold enough for ice and snow to occur, but warm enough for more precipitation to occur also, thus more ice forming. In the long run though, such warming would eventually lead to shrinking ice caps as summer melt begins to exceed winter snowfall.

As for volcanic activity, yes it can melt ice in a localized area, where the activity creates enough heat for this to happen, but for the effect to be truly wide spread there would have to be a super-volcano of the magnitude of, say, Yellowstone Park, to cause effects over a very large area, or a new rift forming, such as the Rift Valley in eastern Africa, but those form very slowly over millions of years, not suddenly.

Most likely there are more forces at work melting the major ice sheets then just volcanic activity melting them from below.
yes, i just watched a tv program on yellowstone and its impact if it goes off, and they say it happens every 600,000 years and the last one was 630,000 years ago, we're over due.
if we take a look at the Arctic oceans floor, you need a map that does not show the ice, we'll see volcanoes all over the place, they especially run between Iceland and Greenland and run right to the N Pole. while watching a documentary on Arctic sea ice, a team of scientists were diving under the ice to have a look at what was going on. what they found was long upward pockets of ice being melted from warm rising waters. there were not expecting to find this. there were also methane and CO2 and other gasses built up under the ice, if you put a hole in it and ignite it, it'd catch fire real easy, flames shooting straight up. there is no land to be found, yet all these gasses were there, warm gasses melting ice from below. then i read another interesting article on how volcanologists were saying how there were a plethroa of active ones under the Arctic sea ice, it didn't take me long to deduce that the earth which also goes under changes at its poles had been warming the Arctic in places. so even if the ocean floor warms 1C, it would be enough to release the trapped gasses that are found in the ocean floor and this in turn starts the engine up, the cycle. most of the oceans floor contains a lot of methane, as we know methane is a strong greenhouse gas as they put it. there is a microbe that eats CO2 and Methane (learned that from an Antarctica article by drilling into a lake kilometers below the ice). the microbes can't ingest the rapid increase in gasses that are being released, the excess finds itself to the surface and into the atmosphere. this increase is why we're seeing the dramatic rise in CO2 gasses, even though it is still a very small miniscule number, the parts per million are LOW. of course we produce some of the gasses, but the planet is capable of flushing it out over time, and it will.

and i think why the ocean floor has warmed is due to magnetics, it allows magma to flow upwards to the earths crust, it melts it away until we see an eruption which we won't because it's on the ocean floor, now the science pics i have seen, even from David Suzuki shows how vortexs of polaric disturbances (more than one pole in the North) can give rise to changing conditions, in this case the sea warmed enough to allow warm gasses to escape the oceans floor, melt some ice and escape to our atmosphere. this is happening because the sun is doing some odd things, it's 11 years cycle has its ups and down. Al Gores melting planet was during an upward in temperatures 11 year cycle, and according to some scientists the sun can miss a cycle or two or more (known as ice ages). now we don't live long enough to honestly say we are 95% sure it's man faults for whatever it may be, if we were freezing to death they'd still say it's mans fault, because that's what people do, they for some reason can't find themselves in nature, only see death, seem to miss the point that death comes life. called self preservation, which is good but as soon as they mix money with it, you end up with billions of dollars based on fear, which is incorrect. now, i read an article yesterday how GreenPeace was using Sata Clause as a way to scare kids into being green minded, that Santa needs the snow. that has to be the worst psychological attack we could ever place on our children, i just couldn't believe what they were trying to do, they should be thrown in jail for such things. so you can see what happens when money and fear get together, it's a disaster of epic proportions on the human psyche.
do me a favour and just ask the many AGW believers, you know the every day person who does not study the planet, ask them why they believe in AGW, which i have been doing for more than 20 years now, you see 20 years ago i believed because i didn't spend the time to go through the possibilities, didn't spend time to check the psychology behind the reasons why they beleived and didn't know anything about the planet. so most who i come across only believe what they hear from the TV, some the internet, but still they have no knowledge yet they still beleive. i do not consider that a good way to come up with the correct answer. what's really weird is i asked my mom, she flat out said no i do not believe it, and said the earth will do its own thing whether we like it or not, i agree with her. she's seen warm winters, blustery cold winters and she seems to have the time factor figured out, we won't be here forever anyway, especially if yellow stone or an asteroid/comet or sun output change occurs, and it will. so all that money and protection and what not goes out the window, that was her point, and she is right.

money is not going to save the life on the planet, nature will come up with its own ideas when we're gone, it does not scare me at all :) life will continue without us.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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as for data, i can tell you this, i've seen both sides of the data, i have read 3 books on climate data accumulated. do i think the data is correct and accurate, NOT A CHANCE IN HELL is it accurate. i am sure my spuse bought me a couple more books for christmas to read. here is how i see... the world was 95% sure that Iraq had CW, and that we needed to bomb the country, everyone believed it in the west, not Asia, not Russia, but most of everyone did. they were tricked into thinking it's what we should do, get these weapons and destroy them, it makes sense, but in the end, after the war, none turned up. we fell for it. we took one asses word for it (BUSH) due to the long history BUSH had with Iraq and we fell into the fear cycle. this is exactly what they are doing with GW. i mean really, if it were that bad don't you think they'd stop pumping out deep voiced commercials that have RAM trucks destroying our environment. if the gov was serious don't you think they'd curb energy use by putting a stop to the things that use it. Canada puts out energy commercials all the time, the gov is 100% behind the extraction of energies such as oil,gass and even coal, the states have commercials about how their coal burns cleaner as well, so where does one draw the line, we can't take both sides, in other words, buying a product that says 20% reduced of some sort of pollutant does not help anything because another company will do the same, so it did not curb anything, it just side steps what we need to do if we believe in such things. in my opinion, if anyone wants to make a difference, stop buying and supporting the things they believe are causing the problem, i stab everyone with that one, there is no escape from that truth, NONE. they'll still buy and do what they want even with a guilty concience. i prove that theory every day, non stop.

here is waht everyone misses, could it be possible that what we do is what we're suppose to do, that it is our nature to burn fuels, to fight amongst each other. death and destruction IS nature, that's how we got here and we'll go down in an explosion or flames, maybe even disease, but don't let it scare you, that leads to the wrong path, we'll acept being hearded like sheep and won't ask or question anything, that won't be me. you don't get out of the box if one thinks that way.

i accept what we are, we're not evil, we're human beings that fart and burn fuels and destroy and create, we live, we die, no need to worry about that. don't worry about the earth either, it will be around when we're gone. trying to preserve life the way it is is not practical, it is impossible, so everyone should get use to change. some poeple hate change, the older we get, the more we don't like it. i have a few brothers like that, they think everything should stay the same, hehehehe, it comes with age.

i look at all kinds of data, and as i said before, the data is skewed to match the consensus and to further their agendas, i do not trust data becase there is MONEY involved, money ruins everything. we were better off as a whole building a pyramid than we are today. i think tv(brainwasher) and fame(vain) have really taken its toll on man.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Sophia »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:do i think the data is correct and accurate, NOT A CHANCE IN HELL is it accurate.
[citation needed]
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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i didn't know it was so praiseworthy :) yeah, i had a few to drink. not finding it too funny right now after this major ice storm, 100,000s still with no power and it's cold.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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here on the wet coast we got a bit of snow over the weekend, then it turned to rain and it's been raining off and on since.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Ameena »

We just had a very windy night...actually it was pretty blowy for most of yesterday too, and rainy. It looks like the winds have finished now but it's still all wet out there. Trains are being delayed and stuff and I have to go to work in a minute - I'm gonna phone ahead and let 'em know I'll probably be late though ;).

Edit - Woohoo, no trains, oh no, that means I can't get into work today, which means that, sigh, I have four days off in a row this week and will only be workign on Friday. Gasp! :D
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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UK is getting a dose, pyramids of Gizza just had snow, weird to look at them with a camel and snow and the pyramids in the backdrop, last time that happened was 112 years ago, no person alive today that can say they saw it.

SU, BC gets very little snow near the shores, but they did this year, a few times now, and before winter, kinda odd i'd say. could be a snowy one for you guys if there is any more Arctic flows. please do have a look at the maps available to see how cold it is in the N hemisphere, it's not dipping here and there, the ENTIRE N hem is experiencing this cold air. we had frost here 2 weeks before summer ended, we had snow in late May of this year and frost in June. i think we'll need a 100 years of brutal cold weather before any minds can be opened up for other possibilities as to why these things happen, we've been so conditioned to blame ourselves and CO2. i do not expect climatologists to be able to explain it with CO2 emmisions if we find ourselves in a cool down for a few years. new science will come out of the closet it's just a matter of time.

it's gonna be a white Christmas in many places this year
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Right now it's not looking good for a white Christmas in the Vancouver area, unless you count a few slushy piles of plowed/shoveled stuff still hanging around.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Ameena »

I heard about the snow in Egypt - my sister has a friend over there who's been telling her about all the snow he's been getting. And over here it's barely even properly cold! We just have crappy wind and rain. Where is the snow, and morning frost and all that stuff? :P
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

certainly isn't here. We're getting pretty much the same sort of weather where I live.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Seriously Unserious wrote:Right now it's not looking good for a white Christmas in the Vancouver area, unless you count a few slushy piles of plowed/shoveled stuff still hanging around.
i think Vancouver has a 5% chance of a white Christmas, that ocean just doesn't allow it very often, but it was close SU, you have to admit it has been crappy out there up intil now.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

right now, more than 50,000 still without power in Toronto, some of my relatives are still without power, 4 days of it, 2 of those days were below -20, it's a winter wonderland today, the inch of ice is still on the tree branches and is now covered with an inch of snow. we have a foot of snow on the ground. forecasts for our area is to remain cold for the next month anyway, mild for western Canada, the chinooks are at work.

Ameena, what part of EU are you in? east EU has been VERY cold.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Ameena »

I'm in England. When it was all stormy the other day, the south/southeast got pretty heavily flooded, and still is - Maidstone, a few miles away from where I live, has been flooded but the worst is in erm, Surrey , I think. There were about 24k houses without power but about half of those have got it back now. More stormy weather is predicted for tonight, I think, so the overflowing rivers will continue to do so for a while yet if that happens. It's not been particularly cold - the sun is out right now and basically the weather over the last couple of days has been alternating between sunny, cloudy, and raining a bit (the big rain was throughout Monday, day and night). So basically it's about the crappiest Winter I can remember having - we had one morning where it was pretty icy outside (the ground was a bit slippery in places when I was walking to the station to go to work) a few weeks ago but that was it. Mostly it's just been kind of chilly and sometimes rainy, but that's it. No snow. No freezing temperatures. Bleh.
Usually, though, while it tends to be cold in December, if we're gonna get any snow it doesn't tend to happen till January/early February. So there's hope yet ;). But with these temperatures, no chance at the moment :P.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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UK doesn't see a lot of snow, i've been told it's like BC coast, moderate and wet with spurts of warm dry periods. plant indexed at zone 5 to north 9 to south, green most of the winter. where i live is zone 5, things don't grow all that well. how much snow is normal for you Ameena? when i was a kid i remember the snow banks being like mountains digging tunnels n stuff. i guess it seemed more back then :) it feels like winter this year, had the shovel out quite a bit. what's with the power going out though, it hurts. when it's bone chilling cold and no power, we feel it. a couple dozen people so far have died from CO poisoning from bbqs indoors to stay warm.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

After reading about all the power outages and other weather related mayhem going on elsewhere, it's making me feel lucky for the bland, lackluster weather of the wet coast.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Ameena »

We don't really get much snow, really - it tends to snow roughly once a year, usually around Jan-Feb. It snows once and is deep enough that cars can't be driven and all the trains are cancelled but it's never really very deep - maybe, like, ankle-deep, if that. If anything, the day after the snow day is worse - it'll snow at night and on the next day it'll all be nice, untrodden snow. On the second day, however, all that snow has been trampled down, flattened, and then has frozen over during the night to become horribly slippery. So that's not good for the areas that haven't been gritted. Within a week or so it's usually all melted and there's no sign there was any snow at all.
But this is in the southeast of England, probably the most sheltered area of the country since most of that kind of weather comes in from the north Atlantic, meaning it has to cross the whole rest of the UK before it gets to where I live. If I was a couple of hundred miles further north and/or west, we'd probably get a bit more snow and it'd last a bit longer. But probably not by much.
It's looking like my trains are probably (hopefully ;)) gonna be cancelled again tomorrow so I'll get yet another day off work, yay ;).
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

I'm guessing the main reason cars are undrivable in the snow is a combination of lack of snowplows, no winter tires on the cars, and the drivers don't get a chance to become experienced winter drivers, if you're only getting about 1 snowfall a year, and it's usually not more then 5 cm deep.

A friend of mine used to live in a town in the interior of BC, the province I live in, that would get a snow pack from about December to February or early March and being in the mountains all the roads were very steep, yet most people could still drive their cars no problem. Of course, that's an annual thing there so drivers learn to change to proper winter tires, have chains and weights handy in case they're needed for extra traction and learn, out of necessity, how to drive in the snow without getting stuck in a self-made rut.

Most problems with snow driving come from people who aren't used to such conditions panicking and gunning the engine, causing the tires to slip on the snow, which also gets forced out from under the tires, friction can also melt it and cause some to also re-freeze back into ice, so now the car's in an icy rut and the driver now needs to have some of the excess snow in front of the tires dug away, and most likely be given a push while carefully applying the gas. The other major problem comes from, again panicking/not compensating for the slippery conditions and slamming on the brakes when needing to stop or starting to spin out. Slamming on the brakes when spinning out is about the worst thing a driver can do, your wheels just start slipping out of control and you are now just sliding along with no control.

When starting in the snow, what the drivers really need to do is slowly apply the gas so the tires have a chance to grip the snow. When stopping, instead of slamming on the brakes, carefully decelerate into a stop. If starting to spin out, turn the steering wheel in the same direction as the car is spinning out in (ie: if the car's back is starting to spin out to the right, turn the wheel to the right, keep up on the gas and you should recover back into the direction you want to go in, you may need to slow down by letting up on the gas, but if you do so too fast and while still in the spin out, the weight of the car is thrown forward by the deceleration and you get even less grip from the back, enhancing the spin out, that's how a stunt driver would do a 180, so if you do that, you'll be doing an unintentional 180, 360 or whatever, not something you'd want to be doing in any case. The reason I say you might want to slow down is that you probably started to spin out by taking a corner too fast for the conditions, but you'd need to wait until you're back under control, or slow down very gently, so as not to set yourself up for an unintentional 180 degree or more spin.

Remember these things and if you ever get a car, you can be laughing as you drive the undrivable snow while everyone else can't.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Ameena »

In the area I live, steep hills are another big problem for drivers ;).
But you're right about the whole "we hardly ever get snow so we don't know how to handle it" thing - one overnight snowfall of a few centimetres and the whole country grinds to a halt, lol. It's not like, say, Norway, where they're guaranteed epic huge snowfall for months every single year or whatever, so it isn't considered worth splashing out on huge snow ploughs and all that other stuff because it's not even guaranteed to be used once a year.
There was an episode of Top Gear a couple of years back where they attempted to combat this problem by suggesting that combine harvesters, which sit idle in the winter as there's nothing to harvest, have their harvesty bit swapped for a snow plough and go out onto the roads and clear them on those rare occasions when we actually get snow. Naturally, they built one themselves (calling it the Snowbine) and found a place with snow where they could test it out ;).
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

i think you both will see more snow this year. it's very early on in the winter, first week was a bad one for us. we've had winter conditions for 2 months now, so we just might get an early spring.

SU, i agree with how to handle a car in winter, and considering you don't drive i would have thought you were an avid driver.

we still have thousands without power, day 7 now. the ice is still on the trees, suppose to go above freezing this weekend 2c for two days and then back down to a high of -10 for the week. average conditions are 0, -1 for a high.

Arctic has had such a rebound of sea ice this year that it is already trapping vessels. that Arctic passage that is sought after looks to be put on hold.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

That's definitely a piece of good news there, just as long as the sea ice rebound is not just a downward spike in a trend going entirely the other way or the beginnings of something like this:
Image

:P
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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hehehe, who knows :)

if the volcanoes beneath the Arctic sea go quiet, we might see the ice return. GW will be GC, and the colder the air to the north, the more powerful the summer storms will be. GW actually reduces storms, think of it like this, if there is less contrast in temps, the storms will be not as intense, but when it gets real cold, the hot steamy Equator churns up storms that track toward the cold areas, like where i live :) this summer is going to be interesting to see how it turns out.

we have not warmed up that much in the last 17 years, we're still coming out of an ice age too, the planet is suppose to warm during this period. i can go on 4ever on this, and you know i like to debate, it's the only way ;)
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Actually, paleoclimatologists' research has shown that milder weather prevails in cooler temperatures, as does climatology and meterology. Storms are fueled by available energy, and hotter temperatures mean more available energy to build bigger, stronger storms. Cooler temps, on the other hand, result in less storm building energy, thus smaller, weaker storms.

This is also born out by the fact that the most powerful storms on Earth form in the warmest parts of the Earth.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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yes, storms are fueled by energy, but there also has to be a temperature difference. it does not matter how hot it is if everywhere is the same temperature. thermaldynamics needs the temperature difference. hot travels to cold, hot can't travel to hot very well, it is dormant, nothing moves. get a real cold spot somewhere and you bet the heat is going to chase after it. so what i am saying is if the Arctic is warmer it reduces the temperature contrast therefore reducing the storms punch. we had no hurricanes this year to speak of, NOAA had it all wrong. 100% miss on prediction and they were wrong about our fall too.

Antarctica broke a new low temperature record last month, -95c.. with that temp you can't even breathe. here in our country we have broke a lot of temperature records this fall. like i said let's see how the summer turns out. i love hot dry summers, it is great for gardening, i've had a crappy garden since 2007, it has not been warm where i live. sure we had a few hot days. this year was very humid here, and i don't like humidity.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Here, where it's supposed to be humid, the summer was ridiculously dry, we broke a record in July for lack of rain, and did so again in October, which was about the driest October on record.

Yes contrast with hot and cold does help fuel storms. So does differences in air pressure. Low pressure creates a flow of air (wind) into it, which allows moisture to build up, creating one of the important ingredients for a storm. However, temperature contrast is not mandatory for storms to occur, if that were the case, very few storms would occur in the tropics. That's simply not the case, the biggest, most powerful storms the Earth can create form there, where the temperatures are pretty uniformly hot. Yes, I'm talking about the hurricane.

The interaction between hot and cold does create a specific type of storms, namely the thunderstorm cell. This is mainly because the interaction between hot and cold air destabilizes the weather, so sudden changes between clear and stormy are more likely to occur. Add in a temperature inversion and you now have the formula for the most severe of the thunderstorms to form, the supercell, which is the most likely to form tornadoes.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

it's darn cold right now, another killer storm is on the way and will hit the east coast. the reason for the big storm is because it's real cold here. they are going to get buried this year it seems. almost all of Canada is in a deep freeze except you out there in BC you lucky dog, much of Russia and China as well. this is turning out to be a nasty winter. where there is summer in the Antarctic, the dumb GW scientists are stuck and three attempts have been made to get them free. haha, serves them right for breaking up the ice in the first place. what the scientists wanted to do was get far in towards the south pole, make a claim that it was melting (info gathered from reading many articles) but they got caught. i don't feel sorry for them at all, dumb arses. what is making me chuckle a bit is this is coming off the back of this years claim that we are responsible for 95% of GW. nothing like a slap in the face to wake them up. to make a claim like that was irresponsible.

UK is taking a beating too, poor citizens are being drowned and it's not warm either. you're lucky so far SU, but i have a feeling you'll see some big storms coming your way too. of course there will be those who will blame it on GW anyway, it never fails. those people i hope they experience the freeze the most.

almost everyone has their power here restored now, thank goodness. even Lake Ontario is freezing up far from its shores, and i was a kid the last time that happened, i fish it even in the winter, but there is no way one could do that this year.
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