Escape from Order's Prison: HINTS & TIPS (Spoilers)

[Soaponarope]

Just thought I would let you know that at least one other person is suffering through your prison.

Is this tongue in cheek, or are you finding it too difficult and are frustrated?

[lbk]

No, I don't think your dungeon is too difficult (at least not so far). I have gotten to the

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fork in the road and gone down a few of the paths, so I am decently far into the game.

There are parts that are frustrating

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(Like how the ant-men keep on regenerating, its not so problematic now as when my guys were weak)

The

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invisible maze

was difficult too, I might not be strong enough for that yet

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(Although I did find the square key and get back out, that was really the only thing of value I found in there. I need to go back and see if the eye things denote key holes, I wasn't sure what their purpose is)

The thing that could be most frustrating for someone who is playing your dungeon is that in order to find some things or solve some puzzles you need to do something that is not intuitive. I agree with DM_Player that seeing how you programed the game helps a lot in finding things,

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I check all the long hallways now and always keep an eye out of keys.

But there are some things that I probably would not have been able to figure out if I had not messed around with the RTC Editor.

[beowuuf]

Obviously, until I play it I can't weight in too much. Obviously many newer games these days cater to a 'play it then done' thing. A difficult game that requires some investment is perhaps not what people like anymore (especially some of us who find themselves with less time) but that doens't make it a bad design.

It's always such a knife edge between rewarding difficulty and frustration that I wouldn't rush to correct it just yet. There's a great range of custom dungeons, and if yours caters to a mindset that isn't catered to as much, a mindset you enjoy, then perhaps wait until more people have had a chance to check it out before working on how to tweak it.

Certainly there are some easy ways to smooth out certain things - reductions of generation, and small warnings before dead ends and deaths, or clues that places are important - that can make a huge difference when a game is on a knife-edge of reward/frustration

[Soaponarope]

Ibk,

Thanks for the feedback. The

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antmen respawn rather quickly(20 sec)

so if you enter this area a lot it can make a bunch of them. They have a limit, but yes this may be too hard for so early in the game.

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It was intended to give the player a panicked feeling as they come from both sides, though with another path to escape from them. If the player stays in the center on the tile that spawns them to fight them off, more will come.

Some places in my game are designed in which the best option is escape, and finding a place with a tactical advantage or trap to kill the monsters. This may be new to dungeon master players, and thus things could be more difficult.

With monster spawning in general, when I played I didn't get lost of course, so likely end up fighting a lot less monsters. Going back and forth over the same areas you can spawn quite a few, though this was true in the original games as well. Most spawns wait around 3 min or so and have limits on them(often 12 or 24 monsters). I found that in the original games there were actually no limits at all. Of course it's not my intention to have players actually fight this many though, as they would have to wander back and forth over a long period of time.

The

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invisible maze

is indeed a difficult area. At this point in the game I wanted to give the players freedom to enter some of the more difficult areas and decide for themselves whether they can handle it. In this case, there is likely an easier path to go first, if it's too hard at the moment. The eyes

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in the invisible maze are there simply to show the projection of illusion(a couple of characters talk about this earlier in the game) and to act as markers.

I can think of a few places where I will add hints, such as a character saying that something feels off or a feeling of deja vu. I did this in the

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spider maze, because I thought it was too hard to find the buttons, so I had the characters spot them for you if you walked by them a couple times rather than make them obvious.

This allows advanced players to find them themselves before hand, while helping others not get stuck.

[Soaponarope]

Beowuuf,

It is certainly not my intention that you have to map out the dungeon to get through it, though I think it's cool that they did. I've never mapped out dungeons myself, though I am a core gamer and more patient than most gamers today. I did however have a friend play before posting on here, and waited until he was through the linear parts of the game. He is a casual gamer, and though has some questions, did not have too much trouble with it. So I thought it should be alright.

I was planning to make tweaks anyway, and stated in my first post on the game that it was difficult and I need testers for gauging this. I want the game to be enjoyable by all, and this may mean releasing multiple versions as difficulty levels. DM player and Ibk seem to be more meticulous gamers like myself and any parts they think are too difficult, I think I will tweak. Beyond this, I will wait until more people have had a chance to check it out before working on how to tweak it, like you said.

I am just bummed out due to the lack of interest, and master's seemingly overnight 180 on enjoying the game. Most of the stuff that I think is really cool is later in the game, and it's disappointing if only a couple players play through it.

[the master]

Soap
I think that the crux of the matter is that gamers should be eased in gently, and then later in the game when they have worked out your planning style hit them with more difficult stuff. I was enjoying it up to a point in the game and then came all the moving walls etc. I think sometimes that dungeon designers think that when they play through the dungeon themselves they know exactly where they are going and what to look for and don't take into account the fact that players are going to take sometime to work out puzzles and all the time they are using up food and water, regenerating (my pet hate) creatures all over the place. Don't get me wrong I appreciate all the time and effort that designers put into their dungeons but I am sure that they want players (and lots of them) to play, enjoy and finish their work. It looks at the moment that only 2 people are playing, not much of a return for probably months of work. I love DM but I like soap don't want the effort of having to map out a dungeon to play it, thats not what its about. Perhaps a scroll map may have helped so that you could see what was happening when you pressed a button.

[DM_Player]

Soap,

On the

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black flame level of the fork in the road

what method do expect players to use to kill the

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hell hounds and horned demons

?

For the initial

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hell hounds that are released when you lockpick the master key keyhole, there were far too many to fight as they do too much damage. So, I went to the dragon door and dropped them down the pit

, which took awhile, but worked okay.

After solving the

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teleporter puzzle and opening the area with the horned demons, I found that once again there were too many to fight as they quickly surround you. So, I started leading them to the pit to drop them in as well. After about two hours of doing this, with no end in site to the regenerated demons, I gave up.

Is there a special weapon that easily kills these monsters that I missed, are you expected to fight them, or did you think that players would

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drop them down the pit

? If it's the last method, then I'd say that the regeneration needs to be toned down a couple of notches as the method is easy, but it quickly becomes boring with so many regenerated monsters.

[lbk]

I feel that maybe I am missing something, hopefully a large area that I have not found because every fork I take now leads to a battle that I am not strong enough to fight. (Warning, this is a long post)

I believe that I have solve the far right fork,

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I have a RA key thing and have connected it to the no magic area.

The second furthers fork to the right I have figured out most things (I think).

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There is one place that I can put the doctors key in and get teleported somewhere but then I need the doctors key when I get there. Still working on how to accomplish that. Also, I have been in the kill yourself pit and looked around with the window spell to see that there are a bunch of doors down there, but clicking on the thing and teleporting out did not open the walls. I might try and do it mutiple times to see if that does the trick.

Thrid furthest to the right is the

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Ring of Fire. In the Ring of Fire fork, I too have gotten past the teleporter puzzle and am finding it hard to deal with everything that is in the maze. There is an area that I cannot seem to get to, no matter how many small buttons I push. And all I have been able to find is scrolls telling me how to make a ful bomb (Which is nice to have the extra rune, but it comes with near death.) There is one room that I cannot get through, it is full of hellhounds and I have tried very hard to make it past (As I feel this is where the treasure of the maze lies) but even by freezing time, bombarding them with chaos boxes and using posion (The only thing I have found to kill hellhounds other than a good old fashon beating) I can't get through. I did notice that there is a dragon I have not fought in this particular fork as well. He is behind a wall, so I probably just can't release him. Also the puzzle where the answers are "right in front of me", used the conduit to see what I needed and I didn't have 4 of them (Probably located in a cave somewhere)

Next one over is the

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Gauntlet, I probably have some stuff to do in the invisible maze still but I can't fight 2 Death Knights at once yet so I am leaving that for later.

Then there is the middle of the forks, the first one on the left is the

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pit maze one. Killed the flying chest, I have also collected all of the items I can find. I am now at a point where there is a giggler that randomly opens/closes holes and at the end of a hallway of such holes there is a room that consists of 12 holes that appear and disappear based on where you stand. I feel that you must choose the right path to solve this puzzle, but have not found that path yet. At the end of the puzzle there is a Master Key hole which I think I could lockpick if I got the chance. Important to note that I got a spiked key in this fork.

Second to the left is the

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treasure room, I have clicked the switch wall item thing but don't know what it does. I don't have the correct key for this part so I moved on.

Next over is a path that connects to the

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Ring of Fire level.

The last fork

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takes you to the beginning.

I have read the scroll that tells me there are in fact more forks than meet the eye. I found that there are

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fake walls connecting some of the forks

, but have not figured out how to reach these extra forks.

I used the

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spiked key to get into the Crypt. Unfortunatly I have not been able to get back out of the Crypt I entered the Lich's lair, went through the fake wall maze, didn't have a compass but was able to get through. I stood my ground in the hallway and made it to the jail room. Killed the sneaky jailor and all the other mosters, then went into the cave to test my strength. I was not strong enough. So I went back out to check other things. I couldn't push a monster into the pit that required one more life and I was able to die spectacurly when I fell in it. Decided to go the third path, with all the doors. Got through that and into the invisible ghost area. I think I tried most combination of disabled teleporters but could not get anything other than a sword hilt. Currenly, I am starving to death on that save file.

I have some keys that I cannot use and some coins

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(Never seen a Sar coin before)

that I havn't found a use for yet. I havn't found the gor rune anywhere, which means I can't use the

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teleport spell (Or what I believe is the teleport spell in the "safe room")

Right now I am just working on finding some extra forks in the road and leving my fighters up

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to try and kill all of the hellhounds in the Ring of Fire level or kill the Death Knights in the Invisible Maze. I think that I need to complete the Ring of Fire level to go on, but will keep you updated with any progress that is made.

[Soaponarope]

DM player,

I did not even think about using this

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pit to kill those enemies, as it is a good distance away and was really just intended to act as a trap set off by using the lockpicks.

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Yes there can be quite a few hellhounds at this spot if you have passed this way a lot before opening it up. Hellhounds are tough monsters, however for a strong party, they shouldn't be too hard to fight. The reason they do so much damage is because they are doing fire damage. This will ignore your armor, however if you put up several fireshields before fighting them it's drastically reduced. If you want to keep away from them and use spells, the lightning spell works well if you have it. They take full damage from lightning and all physical attacks, but are immune to fire and resistant to poison.

The area with the

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respawning pit spawn(horned demons) is perhaps the hardest combat zone in the game.
It is also one of the few places where the monsters have no limit. This area is always dangerous and the idea is to get in do what you need to do and get out. The monsters in your way are meant to be fought, and I would recommend leaving this area until you can battle them fairly well. The pit spawn only generate when you enter the area and on one special occasion, so try to avoid going in and out a lot. It will spawn 1-4 of them at two locations, though has a decent wait in between. The problem is, in luring them all the way back to the pit, each time you came back there were always more because of this. Once again lightning and physical attacks are what kill them.

Overall this level has

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some of the hardest combat in the game, if you can't handle it at the moment, there should be much easier paths. There are some very powerful items and spells in this game which will result in your characters being drastically better even in they are already high level. Running into exceptionally hard parts can be part of the non linear design, though your troubles here will likely result in me toning down the monsters in this area.

If something is becoming tedious, then it's not the solution I had intended. This is my error of course, as players can't read the designers mind and don't know things like where spawn points are.
I figured others may spawn more monsters than I would playing through, but not like this. I am reexamining the monster generation situation, as I don't want anything to be repetitive and boring. Perhaps it is for the best few are playing, as this is a first version, and the difficulty seems to need polishing. Thank you for being a good tester.

[Soaponarope]

Ibk,

I'm going to have to break down your post and answer each part tommorow. There are still many ways you can go though, and you don't have to go to the

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fire level

to go on. I would recommend waiting on this one.

[lbk]

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Yes there can be quite a few hellhounds at this spot if you have passed this way a lot before opening it up. Hellhounds are tough monsters, however for a strong party, they shouldn't be too hard to fight. The reason they do so much damage is because they are doing fire damage. This will ignore your armor, however if you put up several fireshields before fighting them it's drastically reduced. If you want to keep away from them and use spells, the lightning spell works well if you have it. They take full damage from lightning and all physical attacks, but are immune to fire and resistant to poison.

Gah! I had been trying physical shield spells. With this new technology I mow down

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hellhounds and was able to get the blood key! Went into the cave area (Very dark area) and learned what a reflector haze looks like before killing myself

[money]

Just so you know, you have 3 players. This dungeon is tough and I have found myself wondering round aimlessly looking for a hidden wall or switch I missed. Currently close to the 2 vortex things, loving the rats for food and currently playing with a single character. 1 Question, there are a couple of characters with ghost keys... And, a ghost keyhole before the pits/spider zone... Is this the only way to get in or more keys. As I'm playing solo not important, but just curious. Not looking for solution, just yes or no will do.

[Soaponarope]

Ibk,

I believe that I have solve the far right fork

Yes, that is all there is here.

The second furthers fork to the right I have figured out most things (I think).

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There is one place that I can put the doctors key in and get teleported somewhere but then I need the doctors key when I get there. Still working on how to accomplish that.

Are you

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sure you need the doctor's key? The keyholes are similar but different. There are two ways to open this door.

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Also, I have been in the kill yourself pit and looked around with the window spell to see that there are a bunch of doors down there, but clicking on the thing and teleporting out did not open the walls. I might try and do it mutiple times to see if that does the trick.

You will need to open up this path from elsewhere.

Thrid furthest to the right is the

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Ring of Fire.

This level is more of a late game area. Most of the things to do here, cannot be done yet and the one way you can go

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(the demon area) is very difficult. Getting better gear and spells like lightning and heal all make a huge difference here.

Next one over is the

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Gauntlet, I probably have some stuff to do in the invisible maze still but I can't fight 2 Death Knights at once yet so I am leaving that for later.

Finding the

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exit of the maze will lead on to new areas. A good ninja is the best way to take out knights, as they know the best ways to find the weak spots in their armor. A high level ninja with a strong weapon can kill a knight in just a few hits. The invisible maze makes using ranged attacks against the knights here a bit tricky though. You can also try luring knights out of the maze or using push and pull spells on them to avoid them.

Then there is the middle of the forks, the first one on the left is the

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pit maze one

.

You are right,

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so long as you have the lockpick you can proceed this way. This is a tricky area and requires good timing, though is rewarding. The only part that is random and has some luck involved is with the giggler. So if your past that, the rest is just figuring out a good path and being quick. I'm sure by now you know what the gor faces are for. The final part of this level always makes me so nervous but is fun.

[Soaponarope]

Ibk Continued... (how do you stop that super annoying post scrolling to the top which makes it impossible to add spoiler tags?)

Second to the left is the

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treasure room, I have clicked the switch wall item thing but don't know what it does. I don't have the correct key for this part so I moved on.

The switch

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is not needed to proceed, but try to figure it out. It's function is very close and can be done now. The door is a good way to go, but you'll have to find the key elsewhere.

I have read the scroll that tells me there are in fact more forks than meet the eye. I found that there are

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fake walls connecting some of the forks

, but have not figured out how to reach these extra forks.

Seeing how you

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have found fake walls, you are well on your way. Just figure out exactly where the teleporters are in the halls. There is an easy way to do this without going in them. You can find several other paths this way.

I used the

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spiked key to get into the Crypt. Unfortunatly I have not been able to get back out of the Crypt I entered the Lich's lair, went through the fake wall maze, didn't have a compass but was able to get through. I stood my ground in the hallway and made it to the jail room. Killed the sneaky jailor and all the other mosters, then went into the cave to test my strength. I was not strong enough. So I went back out to check other things.

Ah, you mean exited the

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lich's lair, the minefield marks the end of the true crypt area which is why the ghostly ambient sounds fade. The strength door can be passed two ways, naturally by very strong characters(you likely need an item or the strength potion spell for this) or by guile (a secret). This way will also take you around to another side of the true crypt area if you have the needed key.

[Soaponarope]

Ibk continued,

I couldn't

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push a monster into the pit that required one more life and I was able to die spectacurly when I fell in it.

It is possible to do this.

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The spell itself will not allow you to directly push monsters into pits, but there is a script in place here. Perhaps if the monster has nowhere else to go? Also remember that undead and demons don't have souls.

Decided to go

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the third path, with all the doors. Got through that and into the invisible ghost area. I think I tried most combination of disabled teleporters but could not get anything other than a sword hilt. Currenly, I am starving to death on that save file.

There is

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no combination puzzle here. Each rope functions a different teleporter. Think about the last time you were teleported, or did you realize you were? As for food in the crypts, there is an area which spawns unlimited small rats you can eat.

Many of the tiny buttons, coins, and keys are not needed to finish the dungeon, but are very useful. The dungeon is filled with secrets.

The gor rune

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can actually be found in 10 different locations, though it's set up to likely be the 2nd to the last rune you find. You'll find one soon enough.

I was kind of hard figuring out a good way to place increasing power items in a non linear dungeon, though I think I have a good order no matter which paths people take.

Gah! I had been trying physical shield spells. With this new technology I mow down

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hellhounds and was able to get the blood key!

Yes one thing that can be challenging is that the monsters and items have been changed, even if it's not that apparent on some. Trying to use the same methods to fight the monsters or assuming something is useless because it was in the original often won't result in success. All these changes make sense (at least to me) such as the fact the hellhound is breathing fire on you, not biting or clawing, but the many changes will take players some getting used to. I wanted a new sense of "I wonder what this does" like when a new player plays the original game for the first time.

Went into the

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cave area (Very dark area) and learned what a reflector haze looks like before killing myself

Sounds like you just had a run in with

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the Ifrit. This is your first boss monster.

Your doing good, just ask if you want more detailed hints.

Question for both you and DM player, How high level are your characters at this point, and are you using each class a lot?

[Soaponarope]

Hi money,

Single character? Yikes, I don't know if you will be able to defeat some of the monsters with one character, but I suppose you can always get more and train them with the more powerful items later if need be. If you can beat the game with one, you truly deserve the ending song.

The area you are in you will need to solve a puzzle to leave.

Ah, the skull keys. Yes you will have needed to

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have chosen one of these characters to open this path.

[lbk]

I found the

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Ifrit, played some hide and seek with him before finishing him! That makes it lbk: 1 and the Boss Monster Ifrit: 0 Found the gor rune, so teleportation is a go. I will investagate other possibilites in the forked road when I have finished my homework.

As for levels of my characters:
I have 2 fighters and 2 priests. Both of my fighers are 1st level Master Fighters. Both of my Priests are Expert Priests. All of their other stats are pretty much the same, everyone is an Adept (Or maybe higher) Ninja and everyone is a 1st level Master Wizard. (I have worked on getting my fighters to be better priests, they can make = level healing potions and I am working on getting my Priests to be better fighters by killing

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docile rats that are smelling their cheese.

)

I do not have a scrolling problem with my posts, I used the reply button instead of doing a quick reply and manually type in the [spoiler][/spoiler] tags so maybe that is why I have never noticed a problem?

[DM_Player]

Soap,

I don't think my characters are very strong at this point (probably why I have such trouble with the fights against demons and hell hounds, plus since I opened the altar of vi so soon, I have resurrected Adora a couple of times - I know I shouldn't do it - so she's weaker than the others).

I'm playing with
AMBROSE, Health - 336, Stamina - 188, Mana -174, Expert Fighter, Journeyman Ninja, Adept Priest, Lo Master Wizard
CHESTER, Health - 330, Stamina - 182, Mana - 169, Expert Fighter, Journeyman Ninja, Adept Priest, Lo Master Wizard
MELIOS, Health - 343, Stamina - 235, Mana - 148, Adept Fighter, Artisan Ninja, Adept Priest, Lo Master Wizard
ADORA, Health - 217, Stamina - 231, Mana - 165, Artisan Fighter, Craftsman Ninja, Adept Priest, Lo Master Wizard

I've skipped

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opening the wall to the demons and the invisible wall maze

for now, as my characters need some more seasoning first. I'm just exploring for a bit. Went into the

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crypt, explored a bit, but didn't find the way out. Plus, I didn't want to use the spike key just yet. Went through the forks area, got to the other side, when down the stairs but don't know right now how to open the fire ball door or the RA door.

I'll look around a bit and see what I find.

I think you are correct in that you've tweaked everything enough that the game plays a bit differently. In the original, Wizards were king, and Ninjas were serfs, but it looks like you've leveled them out somewhat. The combat seems to rely more on having the correct weapons and protections in place for each particular monster. This takes some trial and error. Some hint scrolls would be helpful on this. Maybe you put these in, and I either missed them or didn't understand them correctly or didn't pay attention.

I'm still saying it's a hard, but interesting dungeon. Of course, I've only seen half of it or less at this point. So far, the only thing that I think definitely needs tweaked is the unlimited regeneration of the demons. As a general rule, I don't think that unlimited regeneration is the way to go. Players can generate a zillion creatures in a short period of time and make it impossible to advance, or try a killing method that you don't anticipate (as I did) that makes it impossible as well.

I haven't found any dead ends so far

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except for the death pit that you know about, which you say is only a dead end early on

. There are places that I've gone that I've haven't been able to solve the puzzle to get out of yet, but I doubt they're dead ends, just not obvious to me yet.

[Soaponarope]

Good job Ibk,

Having taken the steps to

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beat Ifrit at this point

, you should be able to handle combats to come as both times I played I waited a while before tackling that. In addition to

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teleportation, the spell you actually found is incredibly helpful.

Your party looks good.

The scrolling comment I kinda through out for any admin's that may be looking at this. It was when the post was too long it kept moving up to the top every time I tried to edit it or use the mouse. I guess I need to manually type the spoiler tags as well, or just make shorter posts.

[Soaponarope]

DM Player,

Interesting party, as none of them started with any fighter levels. Your levels look alright. Poor Adora, there are some items that raise health though. I would avoid the demon zone until you find some better spells.

Yes I have tried to balance the four classes. I didn't like the fact that in the original games fireball could kill pretty much anything, while ranged weapons all did 5-10 damage. Ninjas are much better, especially with later game weapons, but even the base throw and shoot options are different. There are also special melee attacks for ninjas. I would recommend getting at least one character up to high ninja levels, as it can be the best option against some creatures. Wizards are still very good, though can be situational at times. Most of the stronger monster types are immune to at least one type of magic.

There are a few notes about monsters, but it is largely left for players to figure out. I figured if a monster was giving people trouble, I would give hints on here about it, but I may have thus made too much trial and error. I will add more hints on this in the next release, perhaps in the form of the built in hint oracle.

Here is a tip on protecting yourself that I will add into the next release.

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Melee attacks from all non material monsters are strikes of pure magical energy, with the exception of the fires of the black flame.

[Soaponarope]

DM player cont.,

As a general rule, I don't think that unlimited regeneration is the way to go.

I tend to agree with you here. I looked at the original games and saw that most all the spawns were unlimited, but did not want this for my dungeon. I remember when I first played the RTC version of the original DM I spawned way to many wizard eyes and was surprised that this generally easy dungeon was suddenly incredibly hard!

However there are a few places I felt it fit, as I wanted them to be always dangerous areas, in which you completed an objective and escaped. It shouldn't be possible to make tons in a short time, as the spawns wait for several minutes before kicking in again. However I plan to lengthen this recharge time at several places in the dungeon, the

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demon area for sure. I may need to add a limit there as well, though I kinda wanted this spot to always be a deadly zone.

There always is the situation of a player going in and out of the area without killing them off over a long period of time, which was your case. Though this was true in the original games as well, due to the difficulty of those particular monsters it can be more problematic. It will certainly be fixed one way or another.

There are three major places with unlimited monsters.

1.

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The Oitu's web maze

2.

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The Pit Spawn area

3

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A section of the final level (though this can be shut down)

In addition there are...

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A couple area with unlimited food monsters. The doctor's lab(though due to the nature of things here, it's not a threat once it's understood) and a place with small rats that should pose little threat at that point.
A couple places where you can choose to make unlimited monsters.
One place that has unlimited monsters that cannot hurt you.
And a secret area where you can "fail", but can always leave and not come back as it is not needed to proceed.

None of these additional spots should pose an issue.

I think I was very thorough in making sure there were no dead ends, or being unable to return after teleporting out.

[money]

hi, after a little guidance. I'm still in the area close to the spiders lair. I've cleared the area of rats, worms, slime things - and now getting annoyed by the flames and the noodler - i had a yew staff from the "bronze coin" shoping area, but used it up earlier (for light) I'm reluctant to go through the spiders lair, i took a sneak peak and it looks tough for my one charactor just now. I could use the mirror to return to the entrance of the dungeon - and search for either the dispell spell (or a vorpal blade). Just wondering what you think is best in this position. Is there something in this area that will help if i search a little more (for hidden walls or buttons) without going into the spiders lair?

ignore - making good progress Will come back if more help required!

[Soaponarope]

Money,

The area with the noodler(this is what I have named the monsters with the materializer model, cause their tentacles look like noodles ) is

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after the spider lair, so you must be referring to the lone rive hanging around down there.

The dispel spell can be found

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before the noodler but after the spider lair.

Vorpal blade is

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after the spider lair as well, so the only way to kill these monsters at this point is if you have a charged item. However the flames can be killed later as they are just guarding treasure, and the rive can be easily scared off if in your way.

There is a

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wizard's wand nearby which can cast mid level dispel as well as weak lightning

, if you have not found this though. It is

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laying on the floor, but can be hard to spot.

I'm curious, which character did you choose to solo with?

[money]

Managed to get out the lair, done a fair bit and now searching for the 2nd gold key - i've used 1. I went with Chester Copperpot - seamed to have all right stats and i like magic! plus the coins came in use. so far he's Expert Fighter, Adept Ninja/Priest, Low Master Wizard. 405 health, 199 Stamina and 159 Mana.

no sign of one eye'd wille though?

[Soaponarope]

I see you got the reference.

There is a hint about gold keys on page 1 if you need it, sounds like your doing well. I'm thinking Chester will be very high level by the end of the game.

[money]

I'm in a room with a grid of pits. I understand that they will close

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when you drop items down specific pits. So far this is driving me nuts as i'm yet to find the right combination. Can you confirm there is a "right" combination and i'm not supposed to go down the pits and do something else first?

[lbk]

You can get across the room without ever falling down any of the pits money. A small hint, if you need it,

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once you close some of the pits, you will need to reopen some to complete the puzzle

.

[money]

whats the point of the Gauntlet - a few dragon steaks and a duplicate ring of lyf - did i miss something obvious here?

[lbk]

Yes,

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once you flip both of the switches (I believe) an area opens up behind where the dragon was

.

And Soap,

Found some

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alternate forks in the road, I am currently working on the hall of misfortune because I determined that I get the rune of water there for when I exit the invisible maze. Other than getting killed by spiders (I knew that one that didn't move was a trap...) things are going well

.

[Soaponarope]

Ibk,

Though a trap it is

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also a way to go, though since you can teleport it's not required you go that way. It will open up some shortcuts though. As long as you take quick action to escape being surrounded, this spot shouldn't be too difficult.

Question for both you and DM player,

Based on what you have done, you should have found two

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spiked keys

at this point. Wondering if you had found both. I ask because I realized one could be a pain to find when not intended, and was planning on moving the location in the revision.