Returning to DM: a series of blog posts you guys might enjoy

[Stitch]

And I also started CSB this weekend

[beowuuf]

[oh_brother]

Just got around to finishing off this series now, it was a great read.

maybe the developers just figured winners of the game would want their monitors permanently rendered a Dungeon Master victory trophy

That made me laugh!

And CSB...well as a kid it utterly defeated me. Finished it about 3 years ago finally, it felt good. But as you have no doubt found out from the very beginning it throws in new challenges. Maybe delay the wedding for a while.

[Jan]

And I also started CSB this weekend

Looking back at this sentence I guess Stitch wrote it as his epitaph on his way from sanity to CSB. I hope he didn't get too lost and we'll hear from him again.

[Stitch]

Heh, I'm managing. I knew CSB was nonlinear, but I really had no idea it was this nonlinear. After my initial impression of "christ, just what the hell is going on?!" I have managed to make some sense out of the game, at least the Ros portion I've decided to tackle first. Mapping this monster isn't easy, but it's been part of the fun--falling through a pit in the dragon den and landing in the starting room was a pretty big moment for me, as it allowed me to finally spatially link together most of what I've seen so far.

Now I'm on the cusp of the DDD room, and those demons can take a beating!

[Ameena]

Wheee, sounds like you're having a fun time in the dungeon .

[Paul Stevens]

Now I'm on the cusp of the DDD room

You might want to wait until you have done
all four lower parts. Then you will be more
powerful and, furthermore, have to face those
demons only once.

[Jan]

Wow, excellent progress, Stitch! Good luck in DDD - you'll need it.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, sounds like you are starting to get a handle on the logic. Thoguh there are still one or tso evil tricks CSB plays...

[Stitch]

So, long overdue update. It probably belongs in the CSB subforum, but it does directly follow discussion from this thread, so....

I decided to follow the advice of Paul Stevens and leave the DDD for later. I started out on the Ku path, which initially gave me a fair amount of grief. Besting the basement dragon wasn't too much of an ordeal--shielding my party with adjacent poison clouds worked well, as the dragon usually would approach, then say "OH CRAP WHAT'S THIS NASTY BUSINESS" and back off, and then approach yet again. And so on.

Oddly enough, it was the "no fireballs" area that was enough of a nightmare to inspire a six day break from the game. It wasn't so much difficult as it was frustrating, with monsters constantly spawning around me and picking away at my party. Six days later I returned and managed to beat this section of dungeon by just taking it slow and not accidentally triggering the generation of more monsters than I could handle.

I ascended through the various floors packed with monsters without too much difficulty, as the fact that offensive magic didn't play nicely meant I could channel all my party's mana into healing the frontline. Before I knew it I was back at the DDD.

So now I'm working my way through Neta, and I've managed to map all four sections of the bottom floor. I've also managed to find my very first skeleton key, which has me more excited than I'd admit in mixed company.

Great game

[Ameena]

Hey, sounds like you're doing well . One thing about that Skeleton Key you found (obviously, don't read if you'd rather find out for yourself) -

Spoiler

Don't count on finding any more. That one you found can be used more than once

.
How are you doing in terms of keys found? Are you running out of space for all your zillions of iron keys yet?

[beowuuf]

Nice progress! And yes, CSB is fun for pushing you to alter your tactics at times. I always feel Neta is the easiest path, so you should have no real problems battling through it!

[Stitch]

Yeah, Neta isn't so bad yet, although a room I fell into that was full of those three-headed muncher things gave me a little grief, because I decided (of course) that I couldn't leave a challenge like that unconquered. So I kept going back in that pit until my strategy worked and the room was cleared.

I also accidentally beat some of Dain without meaning to, I think, because I found some stairs up within a pillar from the basement and progressed to a pressure panel crossroads tunnel full of Oitu before deciding to head back.

And yes, I HAVE A TON OF KEYS. My dudes are lugging around one chest full of keys, with more than a few surplus keys keeping the chest company. Do I really need, say, all the key of Bs that I've found?

And thanks for the advice on the skeleton key, Ameena. I've avoided online spoilers but clues and friendly advice are more than welcome!

[beowuuf]

The keys of B are used near the altars, I believe. Iron keys gives some nice small bonues around, I htink, and onyx keys gives good bonues if you find the locks.

[Stitch]

Thanks for the information.

So, uh, does a vorpal blade ever show up? I haven't yet encountered many incorporeal creatures but I know they're out there, waiting and drooling invisible rivers of ghost slaver.

[Paul Stevens]

does a vorpal blade ever show up?

Yes...

Spoiler

At supplies for the quick

......And it will be very handy.

Do I really need, say, all the key of Bs that I've found?

No...but handy if you know what to use them for. There is
always more than one way to do it.

[Ameena]

As well as the location mentioned by Paul above, you can also get a Vorpal Blade

Spoiler

in Dain

, more specifically

Spoiler

at the back of a room which has loads of Fireballs whizzing backwards and forwards across it

.
Iron keys and Keys of B aren't majorly important. I think the same goes for Gold keys. It's probably a good idea to hang onto any "special-sounding" keys that you may find (ie not boring ones like Iron ), but as Paul says, there are multiple ways to get around pretty much every obstacle in CSB. Chances are you'll miss out a load of stuff in your first playthrough, just because you didn't fall down a certain pit, discover a particular false wall, or happen to step down a corridor when an invisible teleporter was active - it doesn't mean you'll fail to finish the game, just that you might discover this stuff the next time you play and be all "Wtf? I never did this bit last time!" .

[Jan]

Excellent progress!

does a vorpal blade ever show up?

Yes....

Spoiler

At supplies for the quick

.....And it will be very handy.

It's extremely well hidden here. Almost impossible to find without a proper examination of every inch square.

Re B-keys: these are my favourites. They belong to those keys that are not necessary but can become very useful close to the end of your adventure - but only if you find

Spoiler

four of them (one from each way)

.

Keep us informed on your progress!

[Stitch]

Neta lies defeated--erm, well I think!

Made it up to the DDD, which was a bit of a surprise as I hadn't found any of the other two Neta start spots along the way, which seemed a little unusual in how these things typically work.

I made it back to the start of Neta and took the other two paths, and both seem pretty standalone. The hallway of doors didn't go anywhere beyond a room with a teleporter--a room that was inaccessible until I took the key from one tough little hooded dude--and the other Neta start spot (the pray one with the fountain) didn't seem to do anything other than route me back to the other start spots. I tapped each square of wall in both these areas and combed everything for secret buttons, but found nothing. Am I missing anything?

I did break my rule and checked CSB maps for the first time, but I tried to avoid spoilers. I wanted to find out (1) where the hallway of doors fit into the rest of the dungeon, as it never reached a reference point where I could get my bearings, and (2) if I missed anything in that weird large room with the spinners and disorienting invisible teleporting spots that is full of respawing slime dudes (I reached the north exit without assistance, but the west wall mostly eluded me).

Oh, and I did look up where the vorpal blade is in Supplies for the Quick, because, uh, I couldn't find it But other than the above I've stuck only to my own maps and the occasional clue from you guys or the hint oracle, so for the most part I don't feel tooooooooo guilty!

Up next and last: Dain!

[Jan]

Congratulations! Well done!

Neta lies defeated--erm, well I think!

NETA is "defeated" if you find the

Spoiler

turquoise

key which I think you certainly did.

Am I missing anything?

No. These two parts are really separated from the rest of the way.

I wanted to find out (1) where the hallway of doors fit into the rest of the dungeon, as it never reached a reference point where I could get my bearings

You can also judge these things from the appearance of different monsters because each species can live only on certain levels. So, for example, the Vexirks - the "hooded dudes" as you say - only live (as far as I can remember) on level

Spoiler

8 (the second lowest)

. Of course, more usual monsters can inhabit more than one level, but not too many/all levels.

Up next and last: Dain!

Most people will tell you that it's the hardest one. It's good that - if I understand it correctly - you chose it as the last one. Good luck!

[beowuuf]

I believe the second vorpal blade lies on Dain?


And one of the alcoves on Neta can be defeated by 'prayer'...thjat might have been the dead end corridor.

[Ameena]

Wuffy - See my pevious post about that second Vorpal Blade .
Anyway, sounds like you're doing pretty well, Stitch . And yeah, Dain is generally agreed to be the hardest one, I reckon. But you seem to be doing alright so far, so maybe you won't have much trouble with it .

[Stitch]

You guys are giving me all kinds of valuable information, so thanks!

Yeah, Dain is a bit of a challenge. I progressed up through the laughing pit bit and then encountered so many water elementals and puddle ghost things that I decided to head back to the Dain junction point and attempt to find that second vorpal blade, which I have--although I've also kind of trapped myself in the fireball room in the process. I pressed a hidden button which only seemed to generate slime monsters, so we'll see.

Yeah, CSB is a handful but I find that if I get in over my head it's generally because I'm running around too much and generating too many monsters. Not always, but usually if I take it slow and look for patterns I can manage just fine.

[beowuuf]

It's definitely a challenge, throwing everything it can (randomness, pits, monsters floods) at an experienced and jaded party, but it is also nicely designed so there are ways to explore it and beat it when you get the rhythm of it.

[Stitch]

Dain has been defeated! The flying serpent area got a little hairy, as did the nearly endless stream of water elementals and pop-up ghost things in one area, but I've now managed to reach the foot of the DDD from all four paths, and map out all three start points for each. My maps are now pretty full, so I think I've tamed most of the dungeon up to this point.

Full of cocky bravado, I finally walked up those stairs to tackle the DDD for real.

[Paul Stevens]

to tackle the DDD

About half done. But a different
kind of place starting at the DDD.

[beowuuf]

Congrats!

The DDD is a little bit of a kick in the shins of your bravado, but the good news is you can probably defeat it and then you can beat the second part of the paths. ROS is a little bit tricky to find/ngeotiate the start of, the rest are ok. As long as you get the hang of manoeuvering aroudn the DDD itself...


Anyway, a great feat, especially with mapping yourself and no real spoilerage!

[Jan]

Wow, congratulations for finishing the first part of CSB! It's incredible that someone can do that so fast without any help. I guess you're simply good at playing games.

Good luck in DDD - perhaps the most amazing place in CSB.

[Stitch]

Whoa, I'm only halfway done?! I kind of thought I was closing in on the endgame based on the percentage of levels I've "cleared," but it sounds like I was mistaken!

(and yeah, placing "cleared" in quotes because I'm sure I missed some stuff here and there. I've tried to be a completionist as much as possible, but a game this dense surely holds onto some secrets)

I'm not sure I can exactly say I've done the game up until now without help as I have consulted the hint oracle, which seems to dish out answers oddly specific and un-oracle-like. But I've (mostly) steered clear of online maps and spoilers, and I've managed to piece together seven mostly-full levels with careful mapping and close inspection of every tile of dungeon wall I can. It's pretty rewarding when following one path suddenly joins up with another and completes another dead end or previously blocked passage, such as when I blew open a door in the Cistern and found it to be the other side of a door that I spotted in Ros but couldn't then access. Those eureka moments when the dungeon coalesces into a whole are half the fun of the game.

The ease with which games can be reloaded now also probably makes the dungeon slightly more manageable than FTL intended, as the sheer overhead in restarting games originally (I'm guessing) encouraged you to just roll with the chaos and make the best of it. The rapid launch time now makes it easy to reload from one save point while trying different things to look for patterns and identify transportation spots, spin points, monster generation triggers, and the like. Not that I have a comprehensive map that reveals all the tricks behind the curtain, but I was able to get a decent feel for what was going on.

Of course, now I've repeatedly died while attempting to do, well, anything in the DDD, so Chaos is definitely punishing my attempt to catalog his secrets. Onward!

[Gambit37]

You're more than half done I'd say, the DDD leads to the second part of the game (x 4 ways) but it's certainly not an equal half that's yet to come. I reckon the main dungeon is 2/3 of the game, with the stuff after the DDD making up the last third or so. Hard to say exactly due to the multiple paths and other ways you can explore...