Dungeon Master Forum

Anyone intending to "upgrade" to this? I've been watching and reading various hands-on videos and reviews, and while some of it looks quite nice, it does seem a bit of a half-way house. The way they've integrated the original Desktop seems a bit... half-cocked. There's also going to be massive confusion among consumers over the "Windows RT" tablet version which won't run any of your old apps. I can see a lot of hardware being returned!

Although i'm involved in tech, I luckily only build websites, so as long as my stuff works in the browser I don't have to worry about much else. As a result, I'm unlikely to upgrade for some time.

Anyone had first-had experience of it yet?

Like Vista, it's probbly worth waiting for the next version where the kinks are ironed out?

Not I.. it'll probably be needed eventually. We jumped to windows 7 while it was still in beta.. but only because there were things we needed and vista was not an option. However for win8 it's just a touch driven os. I don't see anything specifically required. Not unless you plan to get a touch device. In that case I'm sure it's totally worth while.. The only thing that may force us to move to it, is lack of gaming support for older versions. Ie Direct X may intentionally be stopped at some number and only supported under windows 8.. bla bla..

looks neat though.. and I did have a conversation with someone about how they thought that a touch os like win8 would be a great platform for DM

I'm still using Windows XP.

Jan, I think you can try 7 now

About W8, I just hate their purple-ish feel. Except that, haven't tried it yet.

cowsmanaut wrote:However for win8 it's just a touch driven os.

Not true. While it's designed for touch, you can use a mouse to drive it too. And there's the normal Windows Desktop that you're used to hidden behind the touch OS (well, on the non-tablet version anyway)

See, the confusing thing about this is that there's two versions of Win8: There's the tablet only version (Windows RT), which only works with touch, and doesn't have the secondary old-school desktop. Then there's the Pro version, which works on both touch devices and normal computers using a mouse -- and that has the desktop OS and will run your old Windows apps. The tablet version (Windows RT) will NOT run your existing Windows apps. As I noted before, I can see consumers getting very confused (and angry) about this.

cowsmanaut wrote:lack of gaming support for older versions. Ie Direct X may intentionally be stopped at some number and only supported under windows 8.. bla bla..

I've not looked much into the gaming side of things, but have heard that Microsoft may well scupper gaming with Win8. I need to read up on that a bit more.

I'm intending to switch to Linux for 2013. Sick of being mistreated!

Zyx wrote:I'm intending to switch to Linux for 2013. Sick of being mistreated!

Which Linux OS has caught your attention the most?

I just downloaded Blackbuntu.
Other than that, I liked the look of Ubuntu, but had better luck with some driver issues with Mint.

I understood Win8 was suppose to 'catch the eye' of techies, but the techs haven't shown the interest they had expected.

Sorry, I should have said that the only major addition to windows 8 was the touch driven elements of the interface. I know there's a desktop alternative, and of course there has to be since not everyone has touch enabled screens or wacom tablets to work with it. They do after all want as many people as possible to pay yet again for the next version.

My speculation on Direct X support dropping on windows 7 in favour of windows 8 is based on microsofts history. They did something similar during the jump from 2000 to XP and from XP to vista.. the only reason it didn't happen with windows 7 and vista is because they are essentially the same core.. it's just windows 7 is more of a massive bug fix... and they slapped a new number on it. My guess is they will say there is unique architecture to windows 8 as it's based on touch devices and this is where they wish to focus for gaming and as such they don't want to waste resources on legacy software support bla bla bla.. Eventually forcing us to move forward or move away to something else (ie linux) where retro support is always linked with future support.. not to mention it's essentially free.. though not for the faint of heart..

Some analysis here on the BBC site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20044887

yeah, I'm hoping that one thing they do is manage power better.. note that a macbook which runs the apple os get's 10 hrs off a battery, and off windows runs only about half that. Also those other laptops being made into "hackintosh" computers are also seeing power consumption lower.. this OS is meant to be used on portable devices.. the least they can do is watch out for power consumption. From the sounds of these articles though, it's not looking promising That is unless you sacrifice power.. you can't tell me that a macbook can't play full speed 1080p.. and don't get me wrong.. I'm not an apple fan at all.. I think people know that about me by now.. but I admit that they know how to manage power and performance well.

linflas wrote:Jan, I think you can try 7 now

Funnily enough, I'm quite satisfied with XP and as a conservative person I feel no need to go and try something else if that what I have works - it doesn't work ideally, but meh, things are never ideal.

I just hope that in the new version of Office they don't come with just another silly file format - the PPTX, DOCX and XLSX is causing me (and everyone else at out university) a lot of troubles and if they came with something like PPTXF and DOCXF I'll probably join al-Qaeda or something and have a short but serious talk with the guys at MS.

I must have been one of the few people for whom win 98 was stable enough thta i used it well in to Win XP

To XP users.
Presently microsoft does not maintain XP Service Pack 2.
"Microsoft updates" does not work any more for XP SP2.
You can upgrade to SP3 with kits available on the net. Then "Microsoft updates" works for XP SP3.
They will discontinue XP maintenance completely.
Be aware in case you want to keep using XP or re install it.

To play it safe.
I made a fresh install on a 20 Go HD with XP and all upgrades.
I made a Ghost image of that HD on an external HD.

beowuuf wrote:I must have been one of the few people for whom win 98 was stable enough thta i used it well in to Win XP

I did that too. I used 98 up until early 2006 and I've been using XP ever since then. Maybe I'll change to Windows 7 sometime next year...
(Granted, a mac is my main computer now, so keeping Windows up to date doesn't matter nearly as much to me anymore)

Windows 7 has a lot of nice elements.. but I'm finding lately that there are more errors creeping in at work on the windows 7 machines. Seems like I have to be very wary of updates.. as several times those updates have caused major crashing issues.. one of the elements that seems to go out the door is our wacom tablets.. update drivers.. by by tablet.. or USB ports suddenly stop working for no known reason.. but the front panel usb is fine.. strange things like this.. just random breaking of drivers..

My goodness, this is a sobering article. If you're a developer of Windows software, you need to read this:

The Next Twenty Years: What Windows 8's Closed Distribution Means for Developers
http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/17942 ... _what_.php

One of the comments says: "Twenty years from now, if the desktop went away, would anyone under the age of forty care? " - would they?

Maybe it's time I finally go Linux! (With a Windows 7 virtual install inside it, obvs )

In other news: Hurry up and make your new steam console, Valve!

well, I can now comment on at least a bit of windows 8. My father purchased it on his new desktop.. I can say it starts out like a smart phone.. then has this sort of button that takes you to something similar to the desktop, but where items are hidden (start menu is hidden far in the corner.. in fact it's now a single pixel in the corner.. ) but it's more or less the same thing you've known.. with active apps shown in the far right bottom corner of the task bar. and the green rolling hills in the background.. This new idea of minimalist design is a bit disturbing in that I didn't know how to load anything until I was shown that the new start menu was hidden away, and it felt obstinant.. as if it was unwilling to cooperate with me.

The one very positive aspect of my short view of windows 8 was that from the moment the machine was turned on, it took 20 seconds to reach the windows main page. I think it was active and ready to use, though it was still loading a few things in the background.. This mind you is a fresh install on a new PC. so it may be a bit longer after being used a year.. but 20 seconds.. when has windows EVER taken 20 seconds to load? from POST to "desktop" ... 20 seconds.. dude..

My current Win 7 PC does it in less than 20 since I switched to an SSD (Well, it did on the clean install, not so much now... )

this was without SSD I think..

yeah, with SSD it's nearly instant.. Just talked to someone about it. Appears they've focused on trying to make it as fast as possible to boot.. they want it to be much like a smart phone regardless of the device.. that you're not waiting for the boot. A friend of mine who has been anti upgrade for years.. didn't upgrade from windows 2000 until windows 7 had hit service pack 2. He upgraded to win8 and will never go back. As far as he's concerned everything is faster.. once you get used to it, it's all muscle memory.. just typing on the start page is a search feature for any tool you want.. with predictive testing through out.. like when you're in windows 7 start menu or control panel search.. but it's all unified now.. and neatly organized.. I think I'm going to upgrade very soon.

Well, further update.. My father has decided he hates windows 8 It's not working as he wishes.. feels like he's fighting it. Though admits if he owned a smart phone or similar device prior to it, he might have felt less like that.. Also, finally got him to admit to his start up drive being an SSD.. erk.. Though I've got someone else insisting to me that it's still 10X faster to boot that windows 7.

I was planning on getting win8 eventually.. but now I just watched this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0fsyb-ttcw

same people.. but now showing what makes up for the above.. gawd.. back and forth.. "it's crap...oh wait.. no it's not that bad.. no it's donkey feces... oh wait.. no it's ok.. "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfODwWeP9MI

Ha ha! Oh dear!

Another take here:
http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/01/04/w ... ing-blows/

here's another vid from one of the devs.. showing a few things I didn't see in the other videos.. PC specific users should just jump to the 5 min mark as that's where most of the PC specific (ie non touch) elements are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh5JjErbXE8

ok, well windows 8 has just done something horrid to a friend :

"Dear Windows 8

Thank you for updating this weekend. Thank you for adding that useless start button, that is still in the annoying "hover" menu thing, and that still doesn't retain the off button (I truly understand why you keep it in the settings menu its brilliant). Thank you for deleting all my previous preferences in every program I have. Thank you for turning back on all those annoying options i spent so long turning off. Thank you for suddenly changing shortcut keys (I know you just trying to keep my on my toes). I just want to say thank you for making my computer experience better than that of all my experience with windows 7. In conclusion, I hate you."

sounds like the kind of thing many people would flip their desk over

Yeah, I have no intention of downloading win 8.1, even though I hate 8, because I presumed the power button issue wouldn't be sorted (because obviously you need to use the physical power button, depsite the ease of pressing it accidentally moving a damn lap top), and that the start button was always going to just lead to the start menu tablet thingie anyway.

Didn't realise it would wipe all old preferences, but in retrospect it doens't surprise me, and I suppose it was my spidey senses that were tingling there. If it's not as broken as it was, don't trust MIcrosoft to fix it any better.

Still on Win 7 here and happy not to upgrade!

In the new job I've been using OSX. I don't really like the UI or the file manager (it's rubbish!), but will likely stick with it as there are a lot of cool tools for us webbies that only work on OSX.

Is Windows doomed? I wonder what MS will do over the next year or so to win back customers that they alienated with Win 8?

As long as they produce new gizmos people want, people will be stuck with win 8 and learn to accept it. After all, I got lumbered with it on a new laptop and I can put up with it now. So there you go!

I'm still using my mac for almost everything.

I needed Windows and I installed XP...