Dungeon Master Forum

Against my better judgment, I'm thinking of starting a CSB game in WinUAE. I'm wondering if it's better in the long run in terms of statistics to reincarnate CSB characters or just import my DM characters. I mentioned in a DM thread that I'm a compulsive level grinder so my Champions are pretty jacked(nobody's lower than = master in anything).

On the other hand in a test run of CSB characters, Kazai regained the dexterity he lost from reincarnation by the time he hit craftsman ninja(71-ish). Given that it seems like the CSB guys would outperform the DMs before they reached comparable levels.

However it seems like there's not enough time to round out CSB guys in the prison and from what's been mentioned in some other threads here there aren't any training areas in the main dungeon.

So, uh, thoughts?

Once you clear parts of the dungeon, there are areas where food can regenerate and you can keep goign back to water. The non-linear nature of the dungeon also means you can jump to the 'higher' level dungeon area for the multiplier. So you can certainly relatively easily build up a training ring rather than camping in one place as a training area.

Yeah, loads of stuff respawns in various areas. Once you know where to go (and how to get there), you can run around revisiting areas where mobs reappear and kick their arses over and over again .

Any chance the dragon area does this?
(The area with a number of gates and rooms, just loaded with our 'dragon steak' friends)

You mean the Dragon's Den? No, I don't think it does. But if it's like DM in that you get more exp the lower you go, I think there's a Worm generator somewhere on the bottom floor which can be triggered by stepping on a hidden erm, trigger. And there's an area somewhere with a crossroads, each way of which has a portcullis. There's a pad in the middle which opens all four gates and spawns a giant spider behind each one. The beholder thingys in Supplies for the Quick respawn too. And I think you can unleash endless Worms on the top level too. And I think munchers in/near the "No Fireballs" area keep respawning. And probably loads of other mobs in places that I've forgotten .

The worm generating pressure plate on the bottom floor is an option, just not a great food source...and HEAVY to carry.

Reincarnation on CSB is a challenge, at least for beginners. I remember running around thinking, "Hmmm. Grub or not, I could use a water source."
After finding a great water source, I took forever just to locate it a second time.

XP awarded in CSB is based on the perceived difficulty of the level, not it's depth: remember, you enter on level 5. Max XP is given on the top most level.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of two fountains that I can remember the locations of - one at the bottom of the stairs leading down from Supplies for the Quick. It's between the two portals that send you to the Junction of the Ways, though, so it can be tricky to get to. Another fountain is, I think, erm, where is it...I think it's around that area in Neta where you have to trap the mummies behind the doors.
As for respawning monsters...well, you could just lug around some Worm Rounds anyway - after all, you can stash the rest at the Junction, or only carry what you need. I don't think any dragons respawn. Hellhounds might (CSB's equivalent of rats). There are some near the top of the dungeon (I think you go up one of the stairways from the DDD). I think there tends to be a Stone Giant or two wandering around there as well, though.

Finding a respawning monster group doesn't seem that difficult(according to DMweb just about every monster has a generator somewhere). The trick seems to be finding one that has easy access to a water source, food supply, and safe area.

And while I've got your attention, where are the damn flasks in this dungeon?!

Monoven wrote:Finding a respawning monster group doesn't seem that difficult(according to DMweb just about every monster has a generator somewhere). The trick seems to be finding one that has easy access to a water source, food supply, and safe area.

And while I've got your attention, where are the damn flasks in this dungeon?!

Ha, ha, ha. I made sure I took possession of the one around the first corner, at the beginning. Eventually, you will find a decent supply of flasks.
After awhile, I only kept a few flasks, using the water bags/jugs to quench my thirst. They give about 1 1/2 times as much as flasks, yet only take up one space.
At first, I suggest you learn to grind your teeth and press on.

P.S. Ameena: Once the door is opened near the steps to the DDD, the water source was not a problem for me.

It's been a while since I played CSB. I can't remember where you get flasks, but I seem to recall there's at least one in Supplies for the Quick. There's probably at least one more in Neta somewhere, it being the Priest area, after all. I just play with two characters, both of whom keep a flask in their left hand at all times so I can quickly conjure up potions as and when I need them. So I never need more than two flasks.
As for access to a safe area, the structure of CSB probably means that no matter where you are, it'll probably never take that long to get back to the Junction, which is safe enough. Of course, you need to know how to get there, then back to wherever you were . Remember that CSB is smaller than DM (it has less levels, I think ten instead of DM's fourteen), plus it seems like everywhere is connected to everywhere else via false walls, pits, teleporters, and so on. I expect you could eventually work yourself out a route that took you via all the places you wanted to go (food, water, safety, etc) and which would take you less time to get around than you might think .

MasterWuuf wrote:

Monoven wrote:Finding a respawning monster group doesn't seem that difficult(according to DMweb just about every monster has a generator somewhere). The trick seems to be finding one that has easy access to a water source, food supply, and safe area.

And while I've got your attention, where are the damn flasks in this dungeon?!

Ha, ha, ha. I made sure I took possession of the one around the first corner, at the beginning. Eventually, you will find a decent supply of flasks.
After awhile, I only kept a few flasks, using the water bags/jugs to quench my thirst. They give about 1 1/2 times as much as flasks, yet only take up one space.
At first, I suggest you learn to grind your teeth and press on.

Ah, thanks, one of my champions got a gimpy foot and I didn't have anything to heal him with.

Some of the monster spawners have a finite limit placed upon them, but I beleive the worm generators on the bottom level are infinite.

And yes, there is a flask just off the run and jump in the original room, and more in the supplies for the quick.

MasterWuuf wrote:Any chance the dragon area does this?
(The area with a number of gates and rooms, just loaded with our 'dragon steak' friends)

One respawned at least once, but I'm not sure how to trigger it. I only found him after leaving Ku and coming back through the DDD.

Which of the bottom worm rooms respawn? I couldn't get the ones in the dragon room to appear again.

You'll need to step over a certain spot which activates the trigger. I'm not sure where it is, but I expect it's shown on a map somewhere. Maybe try looking at the scans in the DM Encyclopaedia to see if those kinds of triggers are shown, though I'm not sure they are. Or open the dungeon file in an editor and look there .

None of the trigger spots shown on the maps seem to be working. I'm guessing the dragon one is on a long timer, but I can't figure the worms ones out.

The spawners themselves have settings which can ensure a monster isn't spawned right away if one had just been spawned. There is also a trick in several CSB areas where the trigger is relayed through a counter, so afte a certain amount of spawns the counter is disabled, so no more critters can be spawned.

beowuuf wrote:The spawners themselves have settings which can ensure a monster isn't spawned right away if one had just been spawned. There is also a trick in several CSB areas where the trigger is relayed through a counter, so afte a certain amount of spawns the counter is disabled, so no more critters can be spawned.

Grrr! Now THAT would be a 'silly mechanics' argument, in my honest opinion.

Spoiler

(Is it politically correct to spell out IMHO?)

Hmmm, did I get an answer to the 'Can the dragons be respawned in any of the areas' question?
Other than constantly running to the 'worm' respawning area for 'weak' foodstuffs, hunger could become a problem 'after' advancing your team.
(That is, if you enjoy creeping around the place for hours on end, when you could simply finish the game)

I think there's an unlimited worm spawner on the topmost level of the dungeon as well. I'm not 100% sure, but I think removing the Dragon Fang from a nearby alcove activates it. I don't know if there's a limit to the number of worms that can spawn, or what triggers more to spawn once they start doing so. But I do know there are a lot .

^^^ Those worms trigger more worms as the trigger is right by the generator. You can only stop them coming by battling your way to the source and wiping them all out. I seem to recall that's one of the "Monster Flood" puzzles.

There is a direct trigger just before the dragon den door, and it creates a dragon in the centre room. There is a long delay, so yuo could only generate one dragon at a time, but it wuld give you limitless food.


As for the counter or delay on monster generators, both are quite sensible. The delay stops you flooding and area when you are exploring somewhere or fightign ther first creature, in an area where you would like to have it still be populated if you come back later. For example, the dragon den itself - it's nice that it repopulates with a dragon if you come back.

Vice versa, having the counter allows a flood or semi-flood of creatures, but also makes them finite so you know once you have beaten that area, then you have rtuly beaten it, and can exolore/leave without having to go through the process again.

Ameena wrote:I think there's an unlimited worm spawner on the topmost level of the dungeon as well. I'm not 100% sure, but I think removing the Dragon Fang from a nearby alcove activates it. I don't know if there's a limit to the number of worms that can spawn, or what triggers more to spawn once they start doing so. But I do know there are a lot .

Aaack! How do I turn it off? They keep appearing unless I sit on the generator(and it's not tied to the Dragon Fang, I wasn't able to get to it). I could make a break for it, but they start appearing once I step off it and it seems like they'd just flood the room all the way back to the stairs if I hadn't shut the door before the area with the demon with the square key.

You have to kill all the worms that appear. They will have been generated into a "buffer", so even fighting your way to the source won't stop the buffered worms from appearing. Once all the buffered worms are gone, you're done

There is a limit to the worms on the top level.
You can retreat to the doorway and fight them
one-at-a-time until they are gone. Or you can
dash into the room before too many are generated
and kill them all so they cannot reproduce.

As usual, CSB provides more than one way.

Oh. I thought you had to fight to the generator and there was a trigger there that disabled it?

Monoven wrote:

MasterWuuf wrote:Any chance the dragon area does this?
(The area with a number of gates and rooms, just loaded with our 'dragon steak' friends)

One respawned at least once, but I'm not sure how to trigger it. I only found him after leaving Ku and coming back through the DDD.

Which of the bottom worm rooms respawn? I couldn't get the ones in the dragon room to appear again.

There is also 1 other area that I believe re-spawns dragons -- near the end of the Ninja way (Ros) there is a dragon area filled with fake walls and dragons, I believe the dragons there re-spawn.

And yes, on the top most level of the DDD there is an area where hellhounds do re-spawn. Also, there is a trigger right in the 1st room you start in that spawns worms as well. 1 is right in the centre of the room, and there may be 1 or 2 others near the door(s) out of that room that also spawn worms.

There is also an area near the bottom floor that has re-spawning worms, I think you access it by dropping down a pit... it may be in the Ninja way, Ros, but I'm not sure...

Also, on the bottom floor of the DDD there is an area with re-spawning skeletons and on the main floor, the viper demons also re-spawn. Plus the zytaz on the top floor also respawn, as do the demons, if I remember correctly.

Actually there;s ni monster spawner in the invisible maze, once you kill all the dragons hidden, that';s your lot!

The worms in the main bottom level respawn but are on a counter so will eventually stop, except for the pit trap where you fall beside a chest and are apparently trapped with four walls around you. There is a trigger on that point directly to worms, but there is a delay on spawning new ones. Similarly, the loops below the death knights on the bootm floor spawns worms directly too, but again with a delay on generation. So you'd have to run around a little for both - the dragon den nets you food to leave with and then you can come back later.

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up, it's been a while since I played csb, probably getting to be about due to have another go at it...
I'm currently slogging my way though Florian's latest, Down so it won't be until I've finished with that though...

I guess a person gets spoiled playing the original DM, with the RAT ROOM and the SCREAMER ROOM.

P.S. Sorry...just noticed how far off 'original' subject matter this thread has gone.

Nice to see we still have it in us to go wildly off topic


And yes, CSB makes you earn the things DM gave you for free