Dungeon Master Forum

hello I wonder if a lot of people have complete chaos strikes back some years after AC output without using aid plans in gaming magazines
indeed because I found the game very very hard to finish a lot harder than dungeon master

Yes, it was very challenging. I think I got stuck a few times and eventually bought a game guide to help me figure out some of the more challenging parts. The DDD was especially tough, as I recall, opening up some of the areas required very specific actions and there weren't always good clues as to what you need to do. And it was hard to search out every little secret with Viper Demons respawning on the main floor and flaming your but if you stopped to search for secrets too long.

I did it, CSB on ATARI ST.
Not using any help.

Mapping is difficult at the beginning. A lot of map pieces. Once the pieces begin to fit together, the game becomes easier.
One needs to investigate every wall to spot hidden rooms, checking for fake wall and using the spell to see through walls to know what's behind.

To start on CSB, one needs a powerful party from DM.

We never had a guide or drew maps. I think both myself and my dad managed to finish it. Eventually. I think it took us a few months but we got there in the end. I didn't even discover a guide for it till I found the DM Encyclopaedia. I can remember printing off the CSB guide at school. I'm sure I was in Sixth Form at the time, so that would've been anywhere from late 2001 to early 2003.

I finished it, back on my Atari ST, when it came out.
At that time, I didn't know anyone else who was playing it, or anything about game helps and cheats.
It didn't seem all that difficult. Any chance it was changed, in connection with difficulty, later?

With the difficulties I've had getting anywhere near the end, now that I've had opportunity to play it again,
I've wondered how I was able to manage it on my old Atari system.

I was fortunate enough to play it, back then, with an Atari color monitor.
I think it was VGA, as well, compared to the EGA with which I started out.

And yes, it is far more difficult than DM. I believe that is a good thing.
I've watched my sons burn through the newer games in a day or two, at times.
It's not the same with any of the DM games, up to this point.

I also finished CSB multiple times on the ST back when there were no hints or forums. It was harder than DM, but now with CSBwin, I think it's gotten easier. For me, it comes down to key binding. On the original, you needed to mouse click all the runes, the player spell tabs and inventories. Now when I play with CSBwin, I can cast fireballs in rapid succession with 4 key strokes, press another key and repeat with my next champion. We now also have complete information on the strengths of weapons and armor.

CSB has hard starting conditions and is hard if you haven't learned all the tricks from playing DM.

ohhhh yeah. In DM you were given a few quiet levels to get a feel for the controls, gather a few items and such, whereas in CSB you are thrown into the fire right away. You even have a few monsters in some parts of the prison, for pitty's sake! Unless you know the game it's tough. It's tough enough the 1st time around even if you are familiar with the series from DM.

I don't think there were even any spell scrolls with the original DM spells in CSB, so if you are new to the series you'd be hard pressed to figure out how to cast the powerful spells like fireballs, or useful potions like Vi, or use fire shields in the areas where you're facing monsters like Viper Demons and Dragons that tend to throw powerful fireballs around. You'd pretty much need to figure those sorts of spells out by trial and error, a hard job when you're being attacked by worms and flying eyeballs everywhere you go.

The difficulty of chaos strikes back is explained in the ( 1989 ) original manual.

CSB Manual: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/423

Introduction Page 13:
To prepare for your quest, you should have progressed far enough in Dugeon Master that you are confident in your abilities.
Be carefull, for your champions will enter the new dungeon Chaos has built with nothing but their skills and attributes to defend them.
Once inside..........The journey is long and dangerous........

Thanks for the link to the manual, I've long since lost my original DM and CSB manuals that came with my Amiga versions. I read the CSB intro story and that really brought me back. Those intro stories for DM and CSB are quite good little short stories on their own, never mind the amazing games that follow.