Dungeon Master Forum

Ever since I played Dungeon master I was wondering if Lord Chaos was actually evil... or Lord Librasulus actually good.
Sure, Chaos created monsters, traps and all these nasty, evil things. But on the other hand, Librasulus fireballs his Champions once they bring him the firestaff. And he sent hundreds of innocent souls into the Dungeon to quest for the firestaff and does not seem to care much about their death.
So I would assume, if we consider Chaos evil, then we have to consider Librasulus evil as well...
then, next question, if both halves of the Gray Lord are evil, can they blend into a good being after being fused again? Or is the Gray Lord the biggest villain of them all, exploiting Theron and other mortals to fulfill some well hidden sinister plan?
Would like to know your thoughts

Hooray, forum is back up . Here is the reply I wrote about two hours ago and had to copy/paste into Notepad whilst waiting for it to come back again .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think that's basically what the game's story is trying to say - you can't have one of the two extremes because neither is ultimately good for the long-term health of...well, pretty much anything . So it's better to have a balance.

Personally I try these days not to describe anything as outright "evil", because it's a comparative term that only exists when you have something to, well, compare it to. So, say you would say that murder is evil, but stealing is less evil than that, while giving people free food is good, and curing them of horrible diseases is even better. Then say that the concept of murder no longer exists. So, now stealing things is the most evil thing you can do. But then say that no longer exists as a concept. Do the less-good-than-really-good actions suddenly start being defined as evil just because they're not as good as the really good things?
Maybe that's a bit of a silly example. But people can define all sorts of different things as "evil" and have other people disagree with them...I mean, if there's a country where killing is considered evil, and someone murders someone else, then the murderer would probably themselves be called "evil" for committing an "evil" act. And suppose in this country they still have the death penalty, and the punishment for murder is execution. The executioner is killing someone too, but they're allowed and it's not considered evil by that law, because that's "execution" rather than "murder" even though someone is still forcibly having their life ended.
Also, someone who does "evil" things might also do lots of "good" things. Does that make them "evil", or "good"? It's why the Alignment system in DnD doesn't really work if you think about it too much. And probably also why no other game system has bothered with alignments .

I would not discover Dungeons and Dragons until a year after I first played Dungeon Master when I was given Curse of the Azure Bonds for Christmas, but the concept of the nine AD&D alignments fits nicely into this.
Both Chaos and Librasulus are extremes of Order and Chaos. I still don't understand why he kills the Champions at the end, but the point is that they are so far on the Order and Chaos axis that they don't even register on the Good/Evil axis.
Neither is Good. Neither is Evil.

Although fireballing those Champions to death that you sent on the mission seems a rather chaotic act.

slickrcbd wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:33 pm Both Chaos and Librasulus are extremes of Order and Chaos. I still don't understand why he kills the Champions at the end, but the point is that they are so far on the Order and Chaos axis that they don't even register on the Good/Evil axis.

I also frequently play D&D, and almost always I give my character a neutral/neutral alignment, so I don't have to bother
If we stick to DnD, then Librasulus being pure Order and Chaos being pure, well, Chaos, would lead to Gray Lord being neutral after fuse, I guess.
As fas as I remember, even the DM manual never speaks of good and evil, just of order and Chaos. That's quite a unique game concept

I would disagree. Both Order and Chaos are evil, according to the Pazio Pathfinder alignment system.
The reason I have to say this is:
Chaos has killed several adventurers without second thought, or even a verbal warning. Therefore he is Chaotic Evil.
Order has sent several adventurers to their deaths at the hand of Chaos and his minions. In addition, he will kill the ones who do bring him the Firestaff. Henceforth, he is Lawful Evil.
As for the Grey Lord? He seems to want the best for the world, even though he may get a nasty obsession to get a particular item that shall remain nameless on occasion. I believe he would be either Neutral Good or Chaotic Good.

I'll tell you a secret:
Leyla is Theron's sister.
Lord Chaos is Theron's father.

So, does that mean that Theron snogged Leyla at some point before finding this stuff out?

Dungeon Master gets racy.

Hmmm... Thats a good question

Maybe Lord Librasulus fireballs the party because of what the party had to endure down in the dungeon.
I would think that beeing trapped in a place like this for weeks (months?) will leave a mark on your soul and shatter something inside yourself - if a situation like this dont touch you, you would pretty much be a sociopath aready.

Maybe the Lord gets rid of you to protect the community of your sheer power and shattered mind, Friedrich Nietzsche comes to my mind, he said:

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

Ameena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:07 pm So, does that mean that Theron snogged Leyla at some point before finding this stuff out?

Yes he did, but did not know at that time. Later he got aware of this and much later Lord Chaos told him, he was his father.

Yeah. Right after chopping Theron's hand off but just before Theron fell down the Ful Ya Pit.

Or something .

The relationship between Leyla Shadowseek and Theron G. L. S. is purely professional. They never mix business and pleasure... well, almost never. She doesn't even know his real name!