Characters You Have Never Used

[Ian Clark]

It occurred to me when playing a custom dungeon the other week that I had never used Wu Tse before. Are there any characters you have never used after all these years? I only ever used Gando in Conflux II/III and apart from that I don't think I have ever used Elija or Azizi

[Gambit37]

Hmmm. Interesting. I thought I'd used all of them, but upon consideration, I don't think I've ever used Hawk or Leyla. Maybe Nabi too.

[slickrcbd]

Leyla isn't that different from Sonja or Hisssa. High strength, low mana. She's one of my main picks, as I tend to favor Halk, Stamn, Daroou, Hisssa, Sonja, and Leela for their high carrying capacity.
I've tried all of them, but as I tend to be a pack-rack I find the ones lacking carrying capacity (strength mostly) to be of limited use and thus why the above are my main picks.
I've also found Wu Tse to be surprisingly weak for somebody with ninja skills (although I always reincarnate). Almost as weak as Gando or Tiggy, although closer to Chaini in that for some reason Wu Tse tends to get killed very easily in combat, sometimes even being a 1-hit wonder like Gando and Tiggy.
Hawk is a surprisingly balanced character, and I had a friend (RIP, he was killed by a drunk driver while riding his bike on Lake Shore Drive about 15 years ago and there is no Alter of Vi in the real world) who swore he was the best all-around character. His favorite team was Idaho, Hawk, Gothmog, and Wulf. I recall him saying he though Wuulf looked cool, but Hawk was the best all-rounder.

I've played that team, but while it is balanced I prefer taking character that can haul more stuff around.

[PaulH]

Probably used them all over the years at some point, but there are some I generally never use. Wu Tse, Boris, Tiggy - rarely Darou, Nabi and Wuuf.

I tend to only take one or two characters and the primary character is usually Stamm, Leif or Sonja - including in many custom dungeons. Though Azizi is probably the best balanced.

[Ameena]

There are a bunch of character I've never used, thanks to my tendency in games to repeat character/party choices/builds if they work out fine the first time around. I remember when I played as a kid I used Hawk and Hissssa a lot. I can remember one time finishing the game with Azizi in the yellow slot, because she was dead. I think I used to take Boris a lot as well. But we always used to Resurrect back then - I don't think Ir ealy understood how Reincarnate worked and may have just thought it made the characters rubbish due to wiping their skills, I'm not sure.

On replaying DM in later years (via RTC and later CSBWin), I started Reincarnating instead and went for Hissssa, Gothmog, Wuuf, and Gando, until seeing people talking about solo runs and such things on the forum made me realise "Wait, you don't have to play with four characters!". Then I tried every other possible number and settled on a duo being the best for me, with the two members being (reincarnated) Hissssa and Wuuf. Except of course, everyone gets renamed because I'm Reincarnating so those two are called Ameena and Fippy .

[Hrothgaar]

Poor Fippy Darkpaw
I never played Stamm, Daroou, Halk and Tiggy, mainly because of how they look at their portrait, I am a very visual type, look > stats

[Paul Stevens]

I have pretty much settled on one or two characters. Generally one.
Almost always Tiggy or Halk. Otherwise the dungeon is generally a
'Walk in the Park'.

Yes......Lots of 'War Cries' in that first level down.

[terkio]

My first run was with Chani, Elija, Wu Tse, Darou then I consistently used Chani Leif Darou and various fourth like Azizi or Sonja.
I never felt using Wuuf, Gando, Tiggy or Boris.
It doesn't matter, anyway.

[Paul Stevens]

It doesn't matter, anyway.

Quite. Except for a few annoyances like low stamina
and zero mana (Hauling torches is a pain.)
Easily corrected on the first combat level.

The same is true in Chaos Strikes Back. I always take
ToadRot because he is the first I come to and seems
very average.

[slickrcbd]

It doesn't matter, anyway.

Quite. Except for a few annoyances like low stamina
and zero mana (Hauling torches is a pain.)
Easily corrected on the first combat level.

While I admit zero mana is a pain, I've considered Halk, Stamn, Sonja, & Leela to be one of the strongest parties by the end.
Yes, you will have to use torches until level 3, and you won't be able to get Halk or Stamn to start using magic until you get the Teowand on level 4, but it is worth it.
I found you only wind up with SLIGHTLY less mana at the end using Halk or Stamn compared to a 20-30lb carrying capacity difference taking say Wu Tse, Chaini, Boris, Gando, or Tiggy. You don't gain that much in carrying capacity compared to mana so what they bring to the table IMHO isn't as worth it. Sure, it makes it easier to use magic in the beginning, but aside from the Rockpiles (and the Screamers but they are no threat) you can take on all the monsters (only Mummies and Trollins) by throwing stuff at them. Not just projectiles, but scrolls or anything else. By the time you get to the worm level, you should be able to use a LO level fireball with Sonja or Leela, let alone anybody else with more starting mana.
Makes a huge difference if you are a pack-rat like me and are trying to stay out of the yellow. Although Halk and Stamn don't usually start tossing fireballs until level 5 (though they usually use poison bolts on the coutails).

That said, I use Daroou and Hisssa just as often as Sonja & Leela.

[PaulH]

If you 'war cry' with the zero mana characters, they soon gain a priest level. I find Stamm to be the best character regarding stamina drain, though not entirely sure why this is.

[Zolaerla]

I've never played with Daroou, Elija, Hawk, Linflas, Mophus, Nabi, Syra or Wu Tse... The only solo runs I've done were with Wuuf (MS-DOS version) and with Tiggy as a ghost (Boris was a dead weight who had to fight Chaos at the end though). Since I start using Strength and Wisdom potions around level 5, it all really doesn't matter much, since even Wuuf will have 100-120 strength all the time, and everybody regenerates mana so quickly you can cast almost constantly with anybody, so mostly I just pick Wuuf and then whoever I feel I want to have along with her.

[okoro]

We played DM in the late 80s when it was almost new. Our team was Daroou, Elija, Wu Tse and of course a fourth one I don't remember. In the end Daroou casted fireballs @ strength six!
Now I took again these three guys and Hisssa. After some attemps he casts light spells too. Torches mark my way back

[slickrcbd]

I like both Hisssa and Daroou because they have high natural strength for carrying heavy loads. By the end of the game everybody is always AT LEAST a LO Master in all four classes, usually at least an UM Master. Halk and Stamn are the only difficult ones in mastering magic, as I have to wait until level 4 (the worm level) and keep them in the back with the Teowand until they gain magic.
Although next time I play I'm going to try making them use war cry all the time on the screamers on the first level. Mummies will continue to be engaged at range with thrown weapons.

[ParuNexus]

I've never used hawk linflas, nabi, elija and Stamn. In most games while might not be the first and 2nd characters picked i would get Hissa and gothmog. When i pick Halk I would get Chaini. Long before the MCU movies I would pick Alec and call him tony, gothmog would be doom I think Halk would be painted green and called banner\hulk and I tihnk chaini for some reason would be rogue if I remember correctly. Course I've also never used less then 4 people in any of those games. next time i start over in DM nexus i'll have to try the war cry see if it helps...

[slickrcbd]

Honestly, Stamn is the second best physical fighter in the game, second only to Halk. The only benefit to taking Stamn over Halk is that you get the axe before level 4, and afterwards have two axes. However, by the time you get the axe on level four you also have the saber from The Matrix on level 3, and pick up the rapier in level 4.
Granted, the saber only starts to shine for journeyman fighters while the axe is useful for neophytes, but it is still a good mid-level weapon until you get Delta, Diamond Edge, Hard Cleave, and Inquisitor.
I'd say give him a try.
If you aren't a pack-rat like me, Hawk is a good balanced character. So is Idaho.
I always reincarnate, so I pay no attention to any skills they possess.

[ParuNexus]

that is one of the things about DM i need to work on knowing how the weapons better, I never paid much attention to them. but I guess that's part of stamn for axe and mana necklace, cloak of the night, while no one hardly needs the rope.

[Ameena]

Since replaying DM in more recent years (using CSBWin) I've ended up gravitating toward Thrust weapons (Rapier, Delta Blade, Inquisitor) because they seem to deal decent damage for a similarly decent recovery time - the really heavy-hitting weapons tend to recover pretty slowly and I'd rather stab-stab-stab quickly for damage that ends up equalling or outshining that of the "bigger" weapons in the same or less time .

[slickrcbd]

I honestly didn't see much difference between "thrust" and "melee" in terms of damage or recovery. The saber and the rapier were about equal, but the axe seemed to do a bit more damage and you could chop before you could melee if you're working on getting started with fighter levels.

[Ameena]

I dunno, it just felt that way. I tend to use spells and the step-dance to fight anyway, so dealing large amounts of melée damage just helps speed things along a bit against things that aren't likely to be landing any hits >:).

[zeech]

Since the original release on Amiga I've always used the same party, so I never used any of the other characters, hahah.

[PaulH]

I honestly didn't see much difference between "thrust" and "melee" in terms of damage or recovery. The saber and the rapier were about equal, but the axe seemed to do a bit more damage and you could chop before you could melee if you're working on getting started with fighter levels.

The stats for the weapons and actions can be seen in the documentation on the DM Encyclopaedia page.

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/259

Paul has also provided a flow chart of how damage is calculated on his page:

http://dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/documentation/

________________________________________________________________________________________

This is probably best off in a new topic/thread, but I'll comment anyway. The flow chart is rather complicated and I'm still trying to decipher it. However, each weapon and attack has its own 'strength' value. I assume they are multiplied together in the damage calculation. If so, we can compare each weapon directly. If we take the sabre, rapier and axe examples then:

SABRE (42): SLASH (16x42=672), PARRY (8x42=336), MELEE (60x42=2520)

RAPIER (38): JAB (8x38=304), PARRY (8x38=304), THRUST (66x38=2508)

AXE (49): SWING (16x49=784), CHOP (48x49=2352), MELEE (60x49=2940)

_______________________________________________________________________________________
This seems consistent with your synopsis of these weapons. The recovery times (in 1/6s) for melee and thrust are 16 and 20, which would give the rapier an advantage over the sabre: and a slight advantage over the axe with melee. However, chop is just 8 which would seem the best bet of all these three from an efficiency point of view.

NB there is other things to consider too - some weapons have a higher chance of having a 'lucky' hit than others for example. I imagine I have just skimmed the tip of the iceberg here and it will need some refining!

[PaulH]

Anyway, getting back to the characters . When people first play the game they had reasons to pick who they did. I imagine these range from "I like the look of he/she/it" to "I have a beard, I am going for wizards". Or maybe you took the ones with most mana or hp; or if you re like me, took a Journeyman in each of the arts. It wasn't until much later and many, many games that I identified my style of playing and then took characters to suit. You also. of course, will have learned much about the game ie the quirks, the weapons, how fast you can play it and what you expect your leveling to be like, taking less than four characters and so on.

So for me and solo runs it is Stamm, but as I mentioned before, sometimes Leif and Sonja. I like cold steel and find this the most effective in the original dungeon. For dungeons I have never played, and the HOC is the same, I tend to take two characters: Stamm and Elija. Elija has a healthy amount of mana to start with and isn't a complete weed either.

[IskraTS11]

Yeah, I never played Elija or Daroou either, I don't like their character design.
However, I may well give them a chance some day, who knows, it might be interesting!

[slickrcbd]

Daroou isn't that different from Hissssa, although for some reason it always seems that he takes more damage than Hisssa, even if Hisssa is wearing ghi trousers, a silk shirt and sandals while Daroou is wearing a leather jerkin, leather pants and leather or suede boots.

[Xebec]

Good thread! I'm looking forward to my first fresh playthrough in at least 10 years..

Looking through the list, I'm pretty sure I haven't tried:
Zed Duke of Banville (love the SunDog reference)
Wuuf
Leif
Tiggy
Gando
and maybe Linflas

IIRC from childhood (late 80s), my favorite characters were something like: Syra, Sonja, Hisssa, Wu, Daroou..

[slickrcbd]

If you haven't played them before, IIIRC Tiggy, Gando, and to a lessor extent Wuuf are rather fragile.
As in you might be susceptible to a 1-hit KO from a mummie on level 2 or 3.
Try to get them ninja and fighter levels ASAP to increase their durability stats.
Remember, if you equip them with daggers and stab enemies you will be working on ninja levels, and the daggers are decent starter weapons. Heck, I sometimes use daggers on lower levels, particularly level 9 against the pain rats or 12 against the oitus just to work on ninja levels.

Also don't even think of giving Tiggy, Gendo, or Wuuf Darc armor. It's just too heavy for them. Same for Foot Plate/Leg Plate/Torso Plate armor. Even Lyte is stretching it. Plan on sticking with Mithril armor or other mid-weight (we're talking pure weight here) stuff for those three.

[Ameena]

Personally I find armour ineffective enough to not really ever bother with it and mostly stick with leather aside from the occasional magic item such as the Elven Boots - much lighter and they actually give some kind of benefit . I did once test (in RTC I think, so this may not be accurate to the original game/CSBWin) the effectiveness of helmets by deliberately shutting myself in a door, first without a helmet and then whilst wearing one - the difference was only a few points of damage, taking something like 4-5 without the helmet and 2-3 with. Something like that.

[slickrcbd]

What good does the Elven Boots do? The only boot I recall having a special benefit was the boots of speed. Powertowers were effectively weightless since they boosted your load carrying capacity by about the same amount they weighed. Flamebain greatly increases your characters resistance to fireballs. Characters with already high fire resistance now take negligible damage (1-3) from the fireballs on level 8, and characters that previously took big damage had it greatly reduced. Cloak of Night can be used as a necklace or body armor and increases dexterity. I don't recall any others with special benefits off-hand.

On the other hand, I do recall arguments on the effectiveness of armor, and generally agreeing that the "plate" armor aside from powertowers was generally worthless. Too heavy for too little benefit. Better to use YA IR or YA BRO when you had to stand and fight (animated armor, stone golems, black flame which I think FUL BRO NETA was better.). I might give Halk or Stamn Lyte armor.

[PaulH]

The Elven boots increase carrying capacity (they don't increase your strength though).

Armour does have an effect, though seemingly small. Items have base figure, and a sharp resistance figure. More can be found here:

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/259

Other items have interesting characteristics. The Gem of Ages and Ekkhard Cross increase a hidden stat; the pendant feral increases your wizard level. The Diamond Edge and Hardcleave get damage bonuses against armour.