Important Items to Keep With You Instead of Discarding.

[jayrshaw]

Often the others (DAIN, ROS, NETA) I find just sit in my inventory until I find a water fountain and then I down them just to free up a flask for emergency water (more useful and a flask fills more water than two gulps from a waterskin. If I ever wanted the potion I could just remake it. I try to give everyone a water flask and a waterskin, though I've only ever needed to dip into that on levels 9-11 if I don't return to 8 for water)

Wow - that's good information. I've been carrying around several water flasks, but I had no idea that they refilled your characters' water gauge by more than the amount that is refilled when you take a drink from a waterskin (I haven't actually had one of my characters drink from a filled water flask yet).

I've been using the stat-increasing potions continuously during this playthrough since I finished training in the screamer room on Floor 3 of the dungeon. I do have to admit that it is quite a bit of a pain to keep refreshing the buffs every few minutes. Casting the potion spells repeatedly also causes your characters' food and water levels to become depleted a lot faster than they would if the characters weren't constantly recovering mana. I would rank the Ku strength potions as being the most useful of the stat-boosting potions with the Dane wisdom potions and Ros dexterity potions also being very useful; the Neta vitality potions are probably the least useful of the bunch, but I've been using them anyway. Even if you are using the stat-boosting potions, it is helpful for your characters to have high base stats because buffed stats seem degrade twice as fast once you buff them above twice the amount of their base values (e.g., if you have a character with a base strength of 70, it will take much longer for his/her strength to degrade from 140 to 130 than it does to degrade from 150 to 140).

During this playthrough, I used Vi (health) potions extensively until I trained my characters in the screamer room on Floor 3 of the dungeon. I also used Ma (stamina) potions occasionally while training my characters. I have not really had to use these potions yet since I finished training in the screamer room (I just completed Floor 7 of the dungeon last night), although I did have to use a small number of Vi potions to heal my characters' wounds after jumping into pits to retrieve treasures. I expect that I will have to use Vi potions again once I start fighting harder enemies. I also plan to use Ya Bro (shield) potions once I start encountering enemies that cannot be dispatched easily with missile spells.

Also, I thought I'd report that the compass was *very* useful on Floor 7 of the dungeon where much of the level consists of a huge, open area. There were lots of times when I had to turn my characters around to face an enemy in the open area; when this happened, I generally had no idea of which direction I was facing after defeating the enemy until I looked at the compass.


--Jay

[jayrshaw]

I would rank the Ku strength potions as being the most useful of the stat-boosting potions with the Dane wisdom potions and Ros dexterity potions also being very useful; the Neta vitality potions are probably the least useful of the bunch, but I've been using them anyway.

I might have spoken a bit too soon about the Neta vitality potions. One thing I just discovered is that your characters can apparently recover health at a really high rate if they have really high vitality. One of my characters got hit by a pain rat for 49 damage, and when I checked his health a very short period of time afterwards (after just enough time to pick up a treasure chest and do some quick item organization), his health was already at its maximum again!


--Jay

[slickrcbd]

I may have to experiment with the version on my old computer, because while I did experiment a bit 30 years ago with the stat boosting potions on the IIGS version, I don't think I tired more than a single MON level potion, and did not notice much difference. From what you are saying it takes multiple potions to do this. Hard to do in the early game when you don't have much mana, but doable in mid-game.

[jayrshaw]

I may have to experiment with the version on my old computer, because while I did experiment a bit 30 years ago with the stat boosting potions on the IIGS version, I don't think I tired more than a single MON level potion, and did not notice much difference. From what you are saying it takes multiple potions to do this. Hard to do in the early game when you don't have much mana, but doable in mid-game.

Yeah - the easiest way (at least in terms of mana efficiency) is to stack Lo level potions. I believe the effect of the potions is roughly halved once you buff a stat past 120, and it is lowered even further once you boost it past 150. And, like I mentioned, if you buff a stat to more than twice its base value, it will degrade really quickly until it falls to twice its base value. I've been trying to keep my characters' stats in the 140s-150s, and I refresh the buffs when they fall into the 130s (or sometimes earlier or later than this depending on when I am at a convenient place in the dungeon to do it). It should be quite a bit easier to maintain buffed stats in the 110s-120s, though, since each Lo level stat potion will generally raise a stat by ~10 points if the stat is currently below 120. Also, I don't know if it is my imagination, but in the SNES version of the game, the Ku strength potions seem to raise strength by a slightly lower amount than the amount the other stat potions raise their respective stats...


--Jay

[MasterWuuf]

Oh, one other thing. Keep the daggers. They aren't just useful as thrown weapons, but they are the best melee weapon for working on ninja skills and you get two at the very start of the game on level 2 (and a couple more later). Equip your weakest champions with daggers and have them melee screamers. Have everybody take a turn meleeing them with daggers. Heck, I often do the same with swamp slimes or other monsters that aren't too tough like couatls from time to time.
Later on, I tend to work on my priest and ninja levels by fighting pain rats with daggers while casting shield spells or drinking shield potions to minimize the damage taken if I can't step-dance them. Good way to replenish my food while getting ninja levels back up.

I have never tried this, since I tend to blast everything with fireballs, poison blasts or clouds, and the immaterial blast, when needed.
I believe I'll try a game soon, focusing on the dagger.

Earlier, you mentioned the rapier and saber. I don't believe I've ever used them at higher levels, so I believe I've missed something interesting.
I'll also make a point to try them out. New experiences is another thread, but I will keep this comment here. If someone desires, feel free to transport my comment to a more correct thread.

[jayrshaw]

Watching Antman's speed run of Dungeon Master really gave me insight into how few items you actually need to technically get through the game. That said, like slickrcbd suggested, the daggers really do come in handy if you want to train your characters' Ninja levels. I think using the "Jab" command with the rapier is technically the fastest way you can gain Fighter levels, too, so it's probably not a bad idea to pick that up, as well.


--Jay

[slickrcbd]

Using "jab" with the rapier is about the same as using punch only it levels fighter levels. It is pretty good for training, but I don't usually bother grinding fighter levels. With the way I play it's not necessary, I'm always playing catch-up with ninja levels, especially later when I tend to throw fireballs or poison bolts instead of using my ranged weapons.
The saber and rapier are not good beginner weapons, I found that a falchon or sword is better than the saber before "melee" is an option. You need to be a journeyman fighter before the saber pays off.
I also found that the axe is better than the saber, but you need 2-4 weapons.

As for ninja skills, actually don't bother using the daggers on screamers. Just kick them to death. Use the daggers on most anything else you would use weapons on like swamp slimes, wizard eyes, or skeletons.
Also I found that punching rockpiles or stone golems tends to work better than any weapon. You don't do much damage even with Diamond Edge or Hardcleave, and punch has no recovery time and does about the same amount of damage on those two foes in particular.
For mummies and trollins, I mostly throw stuff at them early on. On later levels I use fireballs and poison bolts respectively. Trollins are especially weak to poison bolts, LO level ones will kill on level 3 (although a couple of fireballs may be better for groups of four), and you can usually kill trollins with an UM and definitely with an ON when you next meet them later in the dungeon.