New experiences with an old game...DM

[MasterWuuf]

Guess I was too busy trying to put the Oitus gang out of MY misery, to pay any attention to any of the (idiosyncrasies) oddities of their bodies.

[slickrcbd]

I never could clear out the oitus room the way I could clear the pain rat room. I always ran out of mana, or got surrounded and killed if I tried to fight with just weapons.
Taking on one odd oitu elsewhere in the level was never an issue, I could kill them with just daggers, but when you go into the regeneration room they just kept spawning faster than I could kill them.
The only thing that saved me was using the horn of fear or the staff of claws. Heck, it's the main reason for keeping the horn of fear around as I never found it all that useful anywhere else. I know the horn of fear is just as effective against trollins, but I almost never have that much issue with trollins.

[The Journeyman]

Taking on one odd oitu elsewhere in the level was never an issue

four of you against one oitus..no wonder the spiders are angry with you if you are singling out their weak like this

I was wondering...how do you get the rat room to fill up with rats? I only realized it was a rat room when I tried sleeping there thinking it was a safe room, what with it having a door and all...
There I was dreaming on only to be rudely awaken by 2x2 painrats. At that time I didn't even know that a pack of two of them could occupy a single space, so it was quite a shock.
Naturally it was the end of my crew, but I've never seen more than those 2x2 rats in there. Is it different when you're starting to train there?

[MasterWuuf]

I never could clear out the oitus room the way I could clear the pain rat room. I always ran out of mana, or got surrounded and killed if I tried to fight with just weapons.
Taking on one odd oitu elsewhere in the level was never an issue, I could kill them with just daggers, but when you go into the regeneration room they just kept spawning faster than I could kill them.
The only thing that saved me was using the horn of fear or the staff of claws. Heck, it's the main reason for keeping the horn of fear around as I never found it all that useful anywhere else. I know the horn of fear is just as effective against trollins, but I almost never have that much issue with trollins.

I found that a top-level poison cloud was the best way for me to get through the Oitus section.
Just don't ENTER the room. Stay outside the rooms, guarding the doorways. Keep the doors closed.
I never really thought the Oituses (don't know if that's the correct plural spelling) did that much regenerating.

As long as a person stands his/her ground, without entering the room until the Oitus situation is cleared out, it's not that difficult.
They don't enjoy standing in a poison cloud, so you end up being able to use your weapons, as well as spells.
Just make sure you keep closing all of the doors. Cast poison clouds when the spells start disappearing.
I even sometimes slept, getting more mana, while the poison clouds kept the Oitus population at bay.

P.S. This might be a good spot for those 'saved' VEN bombs. Just make sure an Oitus is standing just inside the door when you 'bomb' it.
I believe you can toss a VEN bomb through the grated doors. Just don't waste a bomb by allowing an Oitus to move back a space.
You want the poison cloud to keep them away from you, so they can't kill you.

[MasterWuuf]

Taking on one odd oitu elsewhere in the level was never an issue

four of you against one oitus..no wonder the spiders are angry with you if you are singling out their weak like this

I was wondering...how do you get the rat room to fill up with rats? I only realized it was a rat room when I tried sleeping there thinking it was a safe room, what with it having a door and all...
There I was dreaming on only to be rudely awaken by 2x2 painrats. At that time I didn't even know that a pack of two of them could occupy a single space, so it was quite a shock.
Naturally it was the end of my crew, but I've never seen more than those 2x2 rats in there. Is it different when you're starting to train there?

At least we now know why 'The Journeyman' says he's going to sleep in the rat room. Lousy motel accommodations, right?

[slickrcbd]

I don't think you can throw bombs through the doors, or at least not reliably, but you can cast poison clouds through the doors. I think PAL and MON level clouds might occasionally hit the door instead of going through, but EE or lower level poison clouds will pass through. I could be confusing it with poison bolts.
It's been a while since I played around with that kind of testing, and it was mostly in the "Make a Monster" part of the Kid's Dungeon on my Apple IIGS. It's been ~30 years and I can't believe it's been that long since 1990 give or take a year (I can't recall if it was 89, 90, or 91).

From what I recall, LO level fireballs and lightning bolts will occasionally pass through the grate, but bigger ones will detonate on it.
low to mid level Poison bolts, poison clouds, and DES EW would pass through all the time.
High end poison spells and DES EW would occasionally detonate against the grate, but not always.
Keep in mind the frailties of human memory and that my notes are in a crate in my mother's basement with all the other Apple II stuff.

I was also unaware that a LO level fireball from a novice wizard was less powerful than a LO level fireball from an adept wizard, in fact I just learned that this week.

On throwing bombs through the doors, I don't recall them passing through, but it could be like passing a fireball through and it's possible but not reliable. I only recall arrows, slayers, and darts passing through reliably, while throwing stars, rocks, and falchons (I was in "Make a Monster" where there were plenty of pathetically weak rockpiles, skeletons, screamers, and mummies) would bounce off the door. I don't recall don't much testing with other stuff.
I do on the other hand recall making a ton of screamers, tossing a VEN potion inside, then closing the door. Solved my food problem during testing.

[oh_brother]

I was wondering...how do you get the rat room to fill up with rats?

There is a rat generator near the rat room: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/142

That said, I sometimes had difficulty generating enough rats to keep my champions fed at this spot. Maybe there is a delay after activating this before it can be activated again. Or maybe I just needed to be more patient to build up a large enough mischief of rats.

[slickrcbd]

It just always seemed to have at least half a dozen rats in it whenever I returned, and usually at least one more pair would spawn when I had my champions sleep after killing those half-dozen rats.
That was all the grinding I needed.

On the other hand, I would make a point to try to get to the rat room ASAP, kill every rat, then explore the rest of the level, then go back and revisit the rat room and clear it out before topping off my water and moving on to another level.
I had no idea what triggered rat regeneration.

[jayrshaw]

Yeah - those Oitu rooms are pretty crazy. When I was playing through the game, all four of my characters were PAL Master (i.e., Level 5 Master) level in their Healer and Wizard skills with over 320 mana each, and I recall that I still ended up using significantly more than half of my group's mana by the time I had killed all of the Oitus in that part of the dungeon.

I basically just stood at the square where the three doors leading to the Oitu area connected and kept lobbing MON level (i.e., Level 6) fireballs at the Oitus until the area seemed clear. I then went through the three rooms in a circular fashion, killing the remaining Oitus I encountered with fireballs and gathering the treasures in the rooms.

I recall being pleased and surprised when one of the Oitus dropped a Skeleton Key (the second I had found on that floor of the dungeon). The Oitus were already starting to regenerate by the time I had managed to gather all of the treasure from the Oitu rooms, so I just high-tailed it out of there to the part of the floor leading to the final part of the dungeon as quickly as I could...


--Jay

[jayrshaw]

Oh, I should also mention that I never really noticed a significant number of Pain Rats in the room where they are supposed to regenerate during my playthroughs of the game. I would go through the entire 8th Floor of the dungeon and only encounter the rats in a few places either alone or, at worst, in groups of two. Maybe you have to backtrack or deliberately step on a Pain Rat generator to get them to show up, or perhaps they generate differently in different versions of the game?


--Jay

[MasterWuuf]

I was wondering...how do you get the rat room to fill up with rats?

There is a rat generator near the rat room: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/142

That said, I sometimes had difficulty generating enough rats to keep my champions fed at this spot. Maybe there is a delay after activating this before it can be activated again. Or maybe I just needed to be more patient to build up a large enough mischief of rats.

That 'spot' at the upper-left of the rat room regenerates rats? Do they regenerate each time you step on that spot, or does a certain amount of time have to go by for it to regenerate another rat or two?

I don't believe I've ever stepped there. I used to leave the room, make the first right turn, then the next right turn, then follow a hallway that leads to the wall before the rat room. By the time I traveled back to the rat room, there was always 1-4 rats that had regenerated.
I may try going back there soon, just to see how many rats I can get in the room. Ha.

But no, I will not take a NAP there.

[The Journeyman]

That 'spot' at the upper-left of the rat room regenerates rats? Do they regenerate each time you step on that spot

according to the map that is actually the spot where the pain rats regenerate (35,05). The trigger for this seems to be at the coordinates: 37,19..at the junction leading to the rat room.

[slickrcbd]

I don't believe I've ever stepped there. I used to leave the room, make the first right turn, then the next right turn, then follow a hallway that leads to the wall before the rat room. By the time I traveled back to the rat room, there was always 1-4 rats that had regenerated.
I may try going back there soon, just to see how many rats I can get in the room. Ha.

But no, I will not take a NAP there.

Well, if you don't know about the regeneration from a guide, it's quite possible to make that mistake. It looks like an enclosed room, so once you've cleared it, it looks like a good place to rest and recover.
I did that in both the screamer room and the rat room in my first playthrough. In fact, I was confused how the rats got in there as I didn't know about the generator mechanics 30 years ago.

[MasterWuuf]

That 'spot' at the upper-left of the rat room regenerates rats? Do they regenerate each time you step on that spot

according to the map that is actually the spot where the pain rats regenerate (35,05). The trigger for this seems to be at the coordinates: 37,19..at the junction leading to the rat room.

I looked at the map incorrectly. Yeah, you are right. I may close the door to the rat room, then see how many rats I can get to congregate in the room by stepping on and off that spot. Would love to see the room clogged with rats.

With my luck, it probably only allows a few rats in a given amount of time.

[Paul Stevens]

With my luck, it probably only allows a few rats in a given amount of time

You can fill the room easily. But the generator
has a delay of 127 (about 20 seconds).

Edited:

[MasterWuuf]

Thanks Paul. I'll have to spend some time in the area, building a rat farm. Ha.

P.S. Any 'limit' to how many can regenerate?

[Paul Stevens]

Any 'limit' to how many can regenerate?

No, not in the sense that I believe you mean the word 'limit'.

[The Journeyman]

hmm, would a creature be able to trigger the regeneration switch? Cause then you could leave the door open and the rats could regenerate themselves by walking by the trigger plate.
Then you could hide at a safe spot with a whole bunch of food and wait till the level's filled up with rats. Traffic jams might be a problem...although..if you do this in RTC then this would be less of a problem, seeing as monsters can form and reform packs autonomously.

[Paul Stevens]

would a creature be able to trigger the regeneration switch

Certainly.
This was done in a couple of places in Chaos Strikes back. Tidal waves of worms.
I don't remember any such place in Dungeon Master.

[slickrcbd]

I thought maybe the screamer room generators were like that, given how quickly it fills up.
Also maybe the oitus room.

[Paul Stevens]

I thought maybe the screamer room generators were like that, given how quickly it fills up.
Also maybe the oitus room.

No and no.
Screamers happen when you step on the pad just outside the room.
Oitus happen when you step off the pad in front of the three doors.

[MasterWuuf]

Paul Stevens said, "Screamers happen when you step on the pad just outside the room.
Oitus happen when you step off the pad in front of the three doors."

This is why I mentioned that you needed to stay in front of the door/doors.
I didn't know the regeneration plate was at that exact location, but keeping the doors closed while using poison clouds (etc)
through the grated doors always left one Oitus (possibly two, if one was hiding around the corner?) to fight.

Thanks Paul, for pointing out exactly where the plates are, as well as the differences in how the plates work.
I have never noticed the 'maps' to Dungeon Master until the last day or two, so I've never used them.
I may check them out, just to see if I've still missed any hidden goodies.

[jayrshaw]

Yeah - the maps on the Dungeon Master Encyclopedia web site are really useful if you're like me and haven't played the game very frequently. Even if you are playing a nonstandard version of the game like the SNES version I was playing, the maps are still accurately display at least 90% of what you will encounter in the dungeon.


--Jay

[MasterWuuf]

Any 'limit' to how many can regenerate?

No, not in the sense that I believe you mean the word 'limit'.

I found a saved game that allowed me to go back to this floor, so I could try this out.
So far I've only regenerated about six pairs of rats. I may try to get a hundred of them.
What a wonderful way to waste time, right?

[boyflea]

Hi all, just on this, something I want to go try:

The 'stores' section on the floor below the screamer room has a room that has multiple transportation spots.
This has always been the most difficult puzzle for me, over the years, when trying to remember it with no 'helps' involved.

I think the sequence to get through is 'NEWSNEWS' - so compass at ready! but TBC. Gives me an excuse to go play again... hope all are well.

[Gambit37]

I always remembered that as RBFLRB - facing west in the empty first square that's Right, Back, Forwards, Left, Right, Back. This also gets you a Mirror of Dawn and a Poison Dart.

[boyflea]

NEWSNE and RBFLRB i think will equate to each other, just different perspectives... ah, that level is the odd one though: feels like a collection of game puzzle ideas and has some cool stuff on it. And hoping you are well dude!

[Gambit37]

Something I never noticed before and only just spotted while watching some YouTubes of DM... the windows on some doors are higher in the early versions of the game (Atari) and lowered in later versions (Amiga):


And thanks Boyflea, I'm well, hope you are too!

[MasterWuuf]

NEWSNE and RBFLRB i think will equate to each other, just different perspectives... ah, that level is the odd one though: feels like a collection of game puzzle ideas and has some cool stuff on it. And hoping you are well dude!

Sounded correct, but I went back and checked. Both do the job.
NEWSNE is easiest to remember for me. NEWS NEWS.
Don't need the last W and S, but I'm reasonably sure that's not NEWS to any of you. Bad joke.

[MasterWuuf]

Something I never noticed before and only just spotted while watching some YouTubes of DM... the windows on some doors are higher in the early versions of the game (Atari) and lowered in later versions (Amiga):


And thanks Boyflea, I'm well, hope you are too!

The wall blocks are opposite, as well
(that is, if both pics are of the same spot in the game).