Dungeon Master Forum

Did anyone ever manage to make Hint Oracle 096 about cornering the Vexing Vexirk in CSB Neta Lvl 08 work in RTC? And if so, does it have any advantage before killing it?

Indeed it does. It was pointed out to me by someone in Christophe's fourm (Beowuuf? Sphenx? Sorry, I forgot), that if you first trap the vexirk no.1 at the altar of vi (horn of fear, et.al.) another one gets teleported near from a hidden location. This one you have to corner in the room with the teleporter in it (at the very last corner) and you'll get quite a reward for that if he vanishes....

Note: Other than for completing the "Collect all remaining items alternative" in CSBwin it seems to server no purpose, but theoretically you could save yourself a lot of trouble in Level 0!

Regards, PitD

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=22787

Hope the link works out. Following the description there is probably more precise than my explanation here since I had the coordinates included originally.

Regards, PitD

To bad I already killed them in my current game. But my question remains: Did anyone succed with that Vexirk-Trapping not in FTL-CSB or CSBWin but actually in RTC? For I was not able to do it, but maybe I was wrong in some detail, and that's what I want to find out.

Hmm. I only managed in CSBwin (since you just pointed out to me it also exists for RTC I obviously have not tried it yet) - maybe the crucial point is that you got the wrong vexirk first (there are several ones!) or that George did not take over that code part. I do not know.

Regards, PitD

I just had a closer look upon that part of the dungeon with DMute (using DMute 1.4 upon the mini.dat from CSBWin), but I don't see everything in DMute since I do not know the hex part of tiles very well.
So what is confusing me at that superficial try of understanding that part of the dungeon: There are not 2 but actually 3 Vexirks ready to teleport in. So how exactly is this gonna work?

I could not figure out that riddle so far. I did the same as you, but since I have no clue at how hex editing works (only read Beowuufs manual but never gave it a real try beyond trying the basic dungeon sample he set up - and failing ), I concentrated on DMute alone - and I found nothing to suggest how the vexirk is "killed" when you corner him at the altair of vi...

Regards, PitD

I'll try to explain it as best i can, and you don't really need any hex knowledge for it : )

At the altar:
The player, at the second last square, triggers a weight-activated pad that opens an invisible monster teleporter on the last square. If the vexirk is standing on it, he will be teleported to the level that doesn't support vexirks, so he dies, and his possessions then are transported back to the original square by the object teleporter on that level
But before htis happens, the vexirk already triggers the two pads on the final squre - one teleports a new vexirk into the maze, the second opens a teleporter to block monsters from coming back to the altar again

This is pretty much how the other one works, except there is no blocking teleporter, as i think the door is a natural barrier from you doing it again

As for the 'third' vexirk, that is the one that initially appears to annoy you, and is released when you walk up to the door


Two points to check - in DM the vexirks couldn't trigger pads, nd could float over pits. CSB vexirks would have to be more 'solid' to activate the traps, but this differnce possibly hasn't been picked up in RTC
Secondly, without monster death on other levels, the vexirk might not give up its possessions on 'death' - i don't know if this has been corrected with a damage pad or not

I can definitely confirm that the procedure works for CSBwin, I tried it not so long ago to succeed in ending the game the alternate way by collecting all items as built in in CSBwin.

Therefore I think the death option is still active and if I remember correctly from my latest played dungeon "Imprisoned again" vexirks are also "floating" over pits in CSBwin. On the subject of fine tuning information about the game mechanics I cannot help

Regards, PitD

Imprisioned again was a DM dungeon, so I don't know if the creatures get converted with the dungeon in CSBWin - i've lost track on how the dungeons get swapped around between the two formats : )

That is true, I cannot say if the creatures are "original" or "replaced", that remains an open item. Although: If it works in CSBwin, this is close enough to the original, no matter how - right ?

Regards, PitD

So even if I did manage to chase the Vexirk before the altar in RTC-CSB (which I was not able when I tried, it always was teleported away before entering the corridor leading to the altar), it wouldn't work unless there was a damage tile involved. So that's the question: IS there a damage tile involved in RTC?

As far as I know, George hasn't implemented ANY damage tiles in CSB except for the one controlling the Water Elementals over the grate in the Cistern.

It would indeed be more like the original CSB to add these (carefully controlled mind you! -- You could get in to all sorts of trouble if they aren't switched off after use...)

To complete Beowuuf explanations:

As shown by the CSBEdit tool made by Rain, Vexirks DO levitate in both DM and CSB (there are absolutely no difference between DM and CSB creatures, except graphics). So Verixks are not able to activate pressure pads.
That is why the pads are not creature activated but item activated. After the first cornered Verixk teleports to (09,30,37), it dies there (because Vexirks are not allowed on level 09) and drops his Cape. This cape triggers the teleporter on the same tile which teleports all items back to (08,24,23). There, the floor pads are activated by the Mirror Of Dawn, which teleports another Vexirk in that area, and activates a monster teleporter to prevent that Verixk from being cornered too at the same place. However that second Vexik can be cornered at (08,09,11). This will trigger the teleporter at (08,05,11) that will teleport the third Vexirk in the area. The second Vexirk is teleported to (09,28,37) where it dies and drops its items, including the Cheese that will trigger the teleporter at (09,28,37) that will teleport the items back to (08,09,11).

I will add a complete explanation of this "Vexing Vexirk" puzzle to the encylcopaedia in the next update.

the more i know (or at least read) about the craft of csb, the more i adore it. even simple looking puzzles beat all i ever done by far. amazing
sry i cant help more
but its nice to know that vexirks do levitate in csb, this makes my dungeon work for csb4win, because i included a small puzzle basing on this fact (yeah, i could replace by beholders, but i simply LOVE vexirks).

Well, thank you, now finally I understand this puzzle. It's amazing that there is still something to find out about the game after all those years.

Has there ever been a debug version someone around here played? Might be very interesting to see if there were shortcuts, different item functions or other things that did not make it into the real game...

Regards, PitD

PitD: Well, it seems that the Halk Gonzo Barbarian game from the mini.dat is the debug game.

Another thing about the Vexirk: Having read all this here makes me suspect that this puzzle can't work in RTC currently. George, what do you say?

Does that mean renaming the mini.dat to dungeon.dat allows me to pley this game directly?

Regards, PitD

csbsave.dat, actually - its a saved game : )

Thank you, I never tried it out so far. Sounds interesting though

Regards, PitD

George, I don't know whether you are reading this forum too, but I' post a link to here in the RTC-bugs forum, because I suspect this is a bug for the giggler random treasure as well as for the Vexing Vexirk, since the automatic destruction of FTL-CSB is not invluded in RTC. And I do want to get the second master key in V 0.25 !!!

Sorry for my bad english, but what does it mean the word vexing I didn't find it in my dictionary and I don't have any glue what it could mean. Thanks.

Vex: to irritate by small provocations, to annoy: to disturb or trouble.