Dwelvers (former Dungeon Dwellers)

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Seriously Unserious
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Bit wrote:This could be used to create kind of 'veteran' imps. They will start a work only if they get enough candlelight to end the task, because if there is anything imp-ortant, then this. An imp without candlelight is nothing anymore - he'll hide ashamed in some corner ('burn out' becomes a real meaning by that :twisted: )
:lol:
Ameena wrote:I had a thought last night when I was wondering what happens when monsters die - do they leave bodies, or turn into a pile of primordial sludge reminiscent of the resources used to make them, etc. And I thought maybe when Imps die they could just leave this sad little burnt-out candle on the ground.
:lol: :P :lol:
Ameena wrote:Also, maybe there could be a way to "recycle" mobs (maybe feed them back to the Mother?) to get back a portion of the resources used to create them if you really, really need that type of resource right now but you haven't found any for ages and have spent what you did find in making this creature who's not actually being as useful right now as you thought he might be.
That actually is a good idea. There does need to be some way of removing monster from service that you don't need anymore, as well as demolishing an unnecessary room to free up the resources/space for other uses.
Ameena wrote:Maybe you don't literally get back piles of coal and stuff - maybe it's a blob of gunge or pile of mish-mashed resources
That would probably be the best way of handling it.
Ameena wrote:Maybe she can pooh them out or something and you can use them that way :D.
I think someone needs to be put on a leash and taken out for a walk... :P
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Ameena »

Maybe you could upgrade whatever feature it is that recycles creatures back into resources, in order to get back more stuff - say you only get back half what you put in at first (ie half the resources used to make the creature), but once you've upgraded the room you get back 75% or whatever. If there are multiple upgrades you could start at a lower percentage and work up in tens or something, to a maximum of, I dunno, maybe 80% or so but you can never get back 100% of the stuff used.
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Rasmus
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

Hey bit, I really like the idea having the imps candle light associated with their lifeforce :) And having a little candle burning on the ground after they have died is really nice too. It will be like a little funeral for them, sad but respectful in a way :P
About the creature recycle, I could have that, but I think it unnecessary with work having to feed the creatures back to the DM, why not just let the creatures spill a certain percentage of their beer (or whatever they are made of) on the ground when they die. With my latest release I have noticed that already there are to much managment involved in creating Dark Dwarfs, it is not a major problem yet as the transportation will be more efficient with the upcoming updates. But I think I will try to simplify the resource managment chain a little.. It could be enough with just beer to create Dark Dwarfs, but if I add shield, leather armour and axe it could take the player up to 20 minutes before she/he is able to create any Dark Dwarfs. And that is not what I'm looking for, I want it to go fast and smooth.. I could still have the same amount of items, but that chain will be a little bit shorter when creating them.. Was also thinking that the player wouldn't benefit in trying to create all the creatures. Instead it is a better idea to focus on two or maybe three creature types (and their upgrades) and that the player would have to choose what creatures he want to create depending on the dungeon and the situation. It is like have 30 different rooms, just because they are there, you don't have to create them all :P
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Seriously Unserious
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Rasmus wrote:With my latest release I have noticed that already there are to much managment involved in creating Dark Dwarfs, it is not a major problem yet as the transportation will be more efficient with the upcoming updates. But I think I will try to simplify the resource managment chain a little.
How about making different levels of complexity and the user can choose how complex it is? So the user can play however it most fun to each individual. Some may prefer the complexity and would feel let down by oversimplifying things, while others may prefer to just jump right in and not want to have to worry about too many things.

At lower levels of complexity, you need fewer resources to make new creatures, the supply chains are shorter and simpler, with perhaps some intermediate steps cut out, and creature's demands can be lower. At higher levels of complexity, you have longer, more complex supply chains, creatures need more resources to create them, and have more demands on your resources (EG dark dwarves will drink more beer). Depending on exactly how you implement this it could be a difficulty setting or a preference setting that doesn't effect the overall difficulty of completing a level, just how long it takes. Similar to Civ 4/5's Epic setting, where everything takes longer, including the number of turns to complete the game so it is no more difficult then the non-epic games, it just takes longer, so the game is more detailed.
Last edited by Seriously Unserious on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Ameena »

Lol SU you misquoted again - that should have Rasmus's name above it, not mine ;).
Anyway...I think there should be some way of deleting creatures you don't want - suppose you're just starting out, so don't really know much about hwo stuff works and all that...well, you might create a bit of everything and then go "Hmm, I don't actually need this thing, I'd better get rid of it". Or you might start creating a certain species of creature but then run out of the required resource...and then find you need that resource for something else anyway so would have been better off using it for that. I dunno. It's the same as that you might build a room, only to find you don't want/need it and selling it back - I noticed there was a dollar-sign icon on the toolbar in the vids so I'm presuming that's a "Sell" button, since they tend to use that icon...well, the games are usually made by Americans I suppose so of course they'd use a dollar sign ;). In DK you could sell back rooms to get some cash - it was what you'd usually do after defeating an enemy Keeper and claiming all their (now unclaimed) rooms in the DK games. You could also drop unwanted creatures back through the portal - like in the second game, I'd always ditch Goblins and Fireflies and keep cool things like Mistresses and stuff who didn't die within five seconds of entering combat ;).
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

Yeah SU, you should see the difference between Ameenas writing and mine.. She does a lot more spelling errors ;) haha

I am more afraid of making the game to complex than not. It is easy to add complexity, harder to remove it.. So I will start with the non complex part :P I have a couple of other ideas also involving trap systems that I think will be very interesting for the player. I just had an interview with am Italian gaming magazine and I explained it like this:
The other thing that will separate this game from Dungeon Keeper is the constructions that can be made. I want the dungeon to inherit some of the game mechanics from minecraft, mening that the players will be able to use their creativity to create traps, it will be more than just creating a spike-trap that the enemies get damaged to walk on. I want to have pressure pads that have wires drawn from them to other mechanics like movable walls, fireball launchers and teleporters, or even counters (The counter will have to be activated a set number of times before actually sending the signal forward, meaning that the pressure pad would have to be steped on a number of times before the trap actually start working). Other mechanics would be timers that sends out signals to the traps/mechanics to activate them self a number of times each minute. Also the walls that have been destroyed will be able to be rebuild with specific materials, not doing much for the gameplay, but the player would be able to personalize his dungeon making it unique.
and later on..
I would like the dungeon to be filled with secrets for those that are willing to explore. Except from just finding treasures there will be some features that are common for dungeons, like cave ins, underground waterstreams, sunlight coming in through cracks in the celling. So the player would have to be careful where he dig so that he doesn't lose his imps in a cavein or by drowning them.. And the most dangerous one would be lavastreams, that can lit the whole dungeon on fire. There will of course be some obvious signs that danger is nearby so the player should be able to avoid them rather easy. But it can also be used to the players advantage by setting up traps that destroys these walls when the enemy are close by. So my idea is not only to use the dungeon for exploring and collecting resources, but that it also can be used against the enemy if planning correctly.
So there will be a lot of stuff out there, and my idea is to start small on everything and then build it up.. I think this game already have enough game ideas to make players occupied for a while..
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Ameena »

That sounds cool. Will you be making it so taht traps can't be triggered by your own creatures? That could be highly frustrating, otherwise - you just set up some really uber trap and an Imp wanders past and sets it off or something. Maybe the game can just assume that all your creatures know the dungeon well enough not to set anything off...but if they're in the way when an enemy does so...ouch.
Anyway, it sounds like some very cool mechanics are in the planning...should be a lot of fun. Hey, maybe you could include some kind of sandbox setting or something, separate from the main campaign or whatever the normal levels will be like, in which players can just mess around and experiment with stuff, building traps and things to see how they'll work. Like the way people will have a separate Minecraft world in which they can mess around in Creative Mode with redstone mechanisms and anything else complicated whilst not having to worry about it messing up their main game. That way, if someone thinks "Hmm, can I create a trigger that activates when someone steps on it and cause a wall to cave on on top of them, and have the boulders roll over to another wall and knock that over as well...", they can set up their own little game world with stuff exactly where they want it, and try to build that trap without worrying that their creatures are going hungry/getting pissed off etc while they do so. So basically, a gameworld where you have full GM/editing powers to freely place stuff wherever you want, delete it at no cost, etc. I suppose in other words it'd just be a map editor with a "test dungeon" feature :D.
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Seriously Unserious
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Rasmus wrote:Yeah SU, you should see the difference between Ameenas writing and mine.. She does a lot more spelling errors ;) haha
you mean like this?
Ameena wrote: taht
:P
Rasmus wrote:It is easy to add complexity, harder to remove it..
I hear you man, I hear you loud and clear, and I fully understand that. What I meant wasn't that you try and make it as complex as possible right away, but that as you add in more complexity, you keep in mind ways of making the overall level of complexity be user selectable and customizable to some degree. Perhaps by adding in the complexity in layers, like an onion. The more layers of complexity the user activates, the more complex the game becomes, so the user had have it as complex, or simple as the user wants.

Personally, I often prefer extra complexity and games that take longer to complete to very simple games that are over in about 20 minutes or whatever. In that case, I feel like I'm just starting to get into the game and suddenly it's over.
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by RAF68 »

why rasmus unable to raise more money ???
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

I guess not enough people know about his game, and not enough of those that do know about it are contributing. :(
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

Sorry I haven't replied in a while, I've been veeery busy :P

@Ameena: Yeah, I think the trap system will be a like a game of its own, I was thinking of having a sandbox mode and maybe some skirmish maps that could be all about killing of enemies with traps, almost like a tower defence game ;) I have been thinking a lot about the editor, and I think the best way is to merge it with the game itself, just like the sandbox mode in minecraft.. In its current state the player can just click on the pressure pads to activate them and test them, and by having that and also a larger build menu the game would be just like an editor :)

@RAF: It's okey, I will still continue at the game and advertise it, and when I have more game context and more followers I may just start another campaign at Kickstarter instead.. Just have to find a trusty middle-hand ;)

Yeah, and I have also added the game to steam greenlight, so if you like to help help me out getting it Greenlit you can follow the link and press "Yes" ;)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =154062357

Here's the latest video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEvOEfWv8jk
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Bit »

Video is soooo great!
Rasmus - whatever the problems are now getting started - that'll be a classic one day!
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

I 2nd Bit :)

Putting yourself on Steam was a great idea, that should help you gain more exposure, and you definitely need it, Dungeon Dwellers needs it, and we all need it, so you can finish Dungeon Dwellers and give the world another gaming classic. IMO what you're building is what computer gaming should be, and is far better then the stuffy games the arrogant big companies many have been complaining about over in the DRM thread.

Keep going, I'd love to see developers like you become the future of gaming.
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Ameena »

Wheee, it's looking cool :). The way traps work is reminiscent of redstone stuff in Minecraft...but hopefully much less complicated ;). I wonder if the Yogscast will find your game on the Steam Greenlight thing and test it out - I'm subscribed to their main YouTube channel (BlueXephos) and I know they occasionally play Greenlight games. If they find yours then you will attract a hell of a lot more attention - the Yogscast is one of the biggest/most popular gaming channels on YouTube.
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

Thanks a lot Ameena :) Sent them a e-mail right away.. Maybe, just maybe they are interested in checking the game out :P
As I have played a lot of Minecraft in my days I just love the whole redstone scheme, but as you said, I want to make it a little bit simpler.. Well I MUST make it simpler because I only have two dimensions to build on :P

Thanks bit and SU :) I am focusing on the game-play because that is what makes a game repayable and wanting for more.. But I think I can get the graphics up a notch if I just found a decent 3D artist that could help me out, but there is still a long road ahead of me so I should be able to find one before the final release :)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by RAF68 »

I think it is true that the game rasmus is promising
just not very known
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Ameena »

I've never gone into much detail on redstone because I find it too complicated...so I've never used anything more complicated than plain redstone wiring and pressure pads, tripwires, and stuff. I've never messed around with repeaters or any of the even more technical stuff that was added in the Redstone Update a little while back. It's nice when you can do cool stuff with just the basics, though :).
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Gambit37 »

Wow!!!! I haven't checked this thread for a while. Look how far you've come!
Your early screens looked great, but this newest stuff looks so advanced and professional by comparison: awesome work!
I love the trap mechanics: hydraulics and cannons look like a lot of fun :-)
I really hope being on Greenlight helps get you the exposure you need.
Fantastic work, keep it up :-)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Ameena »

Oh btw, I just got round to going onto the Steam page and marking the game as a "yes" on the Greenlight page :).
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Gambit37 »

Me too :-)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by beowuuf »

Done!
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Now that I have my new computer back from the repair shop (damn Win 8 bugs) I should be able to look up my Steam log on info so I can greenlight it too. :)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

Thanks Gambit :) You just popped in and made my day ;) haha

And thank you all for helping me with getting it Greenlit :)
@SU: Looking forward on hearing your comments about the new version. If something needs to be fixed until the next version just let me know ;)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Bit »

Have a note about missing MSVCP100.DLL and MSVCR100.DLL runtimes and the way to fix it...
It's a mess if it's not already in the system, because you cannot place dll's simply to a folder in c:/program files today because of the protection, The installer can...
If you install on a not protected drive, you got the simple workaround to copy those dlls from firefox, there they are given with (if you use this browser).

On my bigger laptop I got no problems, except that I get in fullscreen-mode lots of flickering and delays when having bigger unconstructed (dark) zones in view, no problems in windowed mode, even when the window is close to fullscreen.
Imps standing in the north of a wall cannot be seen anymore on closer view, simply because of their size.
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Seriously Unserious
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Rasmus wrote:@SU: Looking forward on hearing your comments about the new version. If something needs to be fixed until the next version just let me know ;)
I'm looking forward to trying the new version, I've seen the video about it and it's really exciting to see this new game you're creating take shape from that first very basic alpha I tested for you a couple of months ago to now. 8)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

@bit: Weird, I haven't had anyone else complaining about those files.. I did a quick search on the internet and found that they are a part of Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package.
Try installing this one: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download ... px?id=5555
About the flickering and zooming.. What OS are you running and what resolution? I have it configured for 720p display and haven't tried anyone else. If you could pm me your system specs (with dxdiag maybe ;)), I could find the solution :)

@SU: Think it was 1,5 month ago ;) Yeah and don't hold back on your true opinions ;)
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Don't worry, I won't. :twisted:

(just be careful what you ask for, you just might get it :P )
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by RAF68 »

no success
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Lol SU you misquoted again - that should have Rasmus's name above it, not mine .
better stay on topic SU, or that annoyance will come after you ;)
keep your gor coin handy
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Re: Dungeon Dwellers

Post by Rasmus »

Okey then, my website is now up http://www.dungeondwellers.net (finally!!), check it out if you want too :) And if you register there you will get all the updates first hand :P
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