strange values in monster editor ADGE

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Adamo
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strange values in monster editor ADGE

Post by Adamo »

When I was changing monsters parametrers in ADGE, I noticed, that some values in monster editor are signed as "unused" or "unknown": "unknown 1" on the left and "unknown 1-4" on the top of the screen. I found that first "unknown" value determines, if monster can attack from side or back, though it`s nonsense for monsters, that have 4 pictures (front, side, back, attack).
But I dont have idea about the other "unknowns". I changed them and looked for some changes in monsters behaviour (I run 2 CSBs at one time on the screen: with changed and unchanged code), but... nothing changed. They behaviour was rather the same.
I would say that two of these values on the top: "unknown1" and "unknown4" are unused indeed, because there are not marked at all (every monster have this function set to "0", instead of parameter 2 and 3, wchich are marked to "1" sometimes. I also didnt notice changes in monters behaviour, when I changed them.
The "unused" parameters in bytes 14 - 20, are they really unused? I believe, that two of these are, because are always set to "0" ("unused2" in word 18 and "unused1" in word 20). The rest of them (unused1 in word 14, unused1 in word 16 and unused1 in word 18) have different values depending of a monster.

Do you have any idea of use of them?
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

I forget where I saw it (I think Paul s's documentation on monster AI) but there were certain behaviours based on when the monster was far away from the party... have you tried altering these then moving far away from the critters?

Also, it might affect more subtle actions on attacking or death - whether they damage the party (hit legs, hit torso, etc) or whether they drop items, etc

But this is all really cool research!

As for the atackign from the side/back thing - this could be really interesting in conjunction with a DSA... oh, wait, the attack graphic would still show up, so would look weird. Darn.
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Post by Adamo »

you could replace the attack picture with front one (or disable attack picture in monster editor) and then set that function. Then a certain monster would attack you from any of his side with no "real" attack picture. But that would have to be some type of attack, that makes it sensible.
Youre right, ˛Ill check out these functions with a monsters, that are shooting from a distance (I was testing with antman)
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

I still ahve to get round to using ADGE (I have to find the .dll or something) so didnt' realise you could disable the monster attack picture. Excellent.... : )

And yes, that is fantastic - anything that makes 2x2 dancing with a creature more dangerous is fine by me, especially if unexpected - worms use their tails 360 degrees (normal attack), or perhaps the monster is a beholder and its eyes fire all around. Or you could jsut have some fun with DSAs and create a non-specific attack due to it's precence (fear, cold, psychic blast, which zyx beat me to dammit)
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Post by Adamo »

yes you can, but be very carefull with that ! Once upon a time I made giggler to mirror the picture in front AND in attack. It worked properly for some 10 sec., then I get some beatifull graphical gliches on a walls around and system took down! (I wrote about it somewhere). I dont know about desabling attack picture- that should be ok, but better make a backup (it seems game system have some limitations)
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Post by beowuuf »

BE a whil before I play with ADGE ... but play with ADGE I most certainly will...items to create, monsters to mess around with

Oh, completel OT, but thanks for the wallsets btw - I used the face to create a very special guardian...think it loosk quite cool, if I do say so myself! : )
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Post by Adamo »

OKEY, I give up. I hardly tried to compare the behaviour of monster A and monster B (same monstres with changed values) on the others screens (2 windows), but I couldnt see any big defferences in their behaviour. There is nothing I can do now. Beo, your suppositions didnt confirmed (damaging the party, dropping items etc.). Mine too. And I had a lot. Maybe I took the wrong monster to the "investigation"?
To make it clear: I changed the values of 3 functions described as "unused" ("unused" parameters in bytes 14-20, wchich I think are used), while I changed all three to 0 in first case and to 15 in second. . But I was searching only these differences, that I could notice (distance = up to 3 tiles). Maybe these parameters are responsible for a behaviour in very long distances (but in that case I cannot investigate it), or for a behaviour of more than 1 monster in group (I COULD investigate that). But otherwise big monsters, that are one only in one tile has different values, too. I am really confused. I left unused2/word18 and unused1/word20 parameters at they are of course, because I think they describe nothing (are always set to zero).
I`m also sure that there are some other values of monster ID, that are hardly coded and connected with monster ID-number, such as damaging the party or type of projectiles (that can be checked by replacing all values and graphics of monster 1 with monster2 and comparing their behavoiur).
*sorry if I`m ignorant, but I have to know what unknown-used values are responsible for)*
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Post by Paul Stevens »

Adamo:

Have you bothered to look at the CSBwin code for these things?
There are a lot of comments. Have you used the
ASCII dump capability of CSBwin? The code itself
is relatively 'searchable' as many of these fields are
private and cannot be referenced other than through
their proper names. In cases where they are public and
there is a lot of confusion with other structure names I am
willing to make changes so that it is easier to search
for the references. Let me know if such would be helpful.
And suggest changes to the ASCII dump notations. It was
done a very long time ago before we knew much of anything
about these structures.
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