What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Saumun, I just lost my entire post so I will make it short.

You hit it, God is the explanation used when numbers and logic fail. Quantum mechanics is what Hawking uses for his ever changing theories. Got to think outside the box to grasp God. God can be compared to the imperfect circle, Pi. To large to be understood to reach its end. I believe in God because of nature, which I have had enough experience with it to know that there is something more and greater than myself. I also read Hawking's book when it came out, lots of little tiny black holes he thought at the time. Is everything real or a hallucination? Are there more dimensions than we know of? Is dark matter real? probably.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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PS, your wife is right, but to me weird is the most fascinating thing, my wife say's the same :lol: I never thought of God as a fraction, or even as a negative value :) Is God good? Positive, and the Devil bad? negative? Chaos does not think so :wink:
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Paul S... I would also venture a 'yes', but i have to admit that it is little more than a hunch on my part... as i am not well versed enough in these matters to do more than speculate.

CS... God being the explanation when numbers and logic fail is one of the many reasons for my atheism and anti-theism. I feel that it is too easy a way out. I also feel that truly thinking outside the box is to leave the notion of God to one side. God (in the case of human history) is very firmly 'inside the box', as he/she/it has influenced so much decision-making throughout the last few thousand years.

Whether or not God exists is, has, and probably will be for a long time to come a bone of contention.... but in my opinion is an irrelevance to real research and discovery. I'd go as far to say that faith absolutely hinders objective truth.

But again.... That's just me. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Jan
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Personally I'm so atheistic that I fear God will punish me for this. :wink:
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Saumun, I am not a religious person by any means, follow no book. What would you think if you were told that spirits are real and exist? Whether that is god inspired, who knows. I believe in creation. It wasn't until I learned myself before I thought of why I'm here, Science also believes in creation, they are doing it all the time. I don't like to speak about the spirits much but I can guarantee that if you were to study the pineal gland and its secretions you'd discover the stuff that dreams are made of, DMT. Perhaps you can think of it as inspiration to what may be, like the discovery of the benzene ring dreamed up, a dream where a snake plays the role and the dreamer takes it back from their dream. Check out DMT, it exists in all living things, it is called spice. This substance will enlighten almost anyone who comes in contact with it. It is a perfectly natural hallucinogen that is in every plant and animal in tiny amounts. Some plants have high amounts that it can be extracted. This is what the shamans of the jungle use in their ayahuasca drink, vine of the soul, check it out, it may change your mind, when you see and talk to spirits that ask you questions you'll have a better understanding of why the seemingly crazy people think the way they do. I went on a quest of why I am here, learned about the plants, learned about chemistry and made my own spice. My life changed after that, I know personally I'm not alone. My family knows too, but only a few people who request such a thing outside my own family have I shared this with, keep low about it, spirits told me to say as little as possible or pay the price. They told me this, it's not a joke. I will leave that there, now back to the climategate :)
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Only man thinks of punishment, don't worry Jan. Any of those story books are just that, stories to explain the impossible to understand then after time was skewed to fit their religion. A lot of good is in those books but most of it is made up to either explain or control with fear the population. Using fear is wrong to control people, which brings us back to climategate, their using fear to drum up money, to control the population. That is the biggest thing that disturbs me, people are so gullible it is actually scary, I know they believe what they think is right but I also know most of these young scared minds know absolutely nothing about it, they just go along with the masses, herded fear is what it is. I have faced fear and it no longer troubles me in that way. Won't jump out of a perfectly good plane though :lol:

All across Canada today we have snow in almost every province and territory, so she's cold, even Vancouver has been below freezing the past while. That should cool them off.
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Saumun
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Saumun »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:What would you think if you were told that spirits are real and exist?
I would have no problem CS. I'd disagree on basis of evidence, but hey... It would be a very boring world if we all thought exactly the same way, wouldn't it?
I am only dimly aware of the pineal gland through a book i read many years ago. It was a novel though... not a study, so i have no real knowledge except that it secretes a hormone that affects awake/sleep patterns.

Anyway, as you say.... back to climategate, as this is veering seriously off-topic.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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"I would have no problem CS. I'd disagree on basis of evidence, but hey... It would be a very boring world if we all thought exactly the same way, wouldn't it?"

Yes, the only way to know is to find out for yourself, the evidence is there and it will shake your mind once you find out ;) Biggest quest ever undertaken is to answer that question, is there more out there. It's a yes for me.

Climategate

I think they can do a much better job of having everyone think proactive with pollution if they took the fear out of it. It doesn't help to have children pointing fingers all the while they're doing the very thing that they believe is the cause. Doesn't do much for the teaching. They're as selfish and not as educated on the matter enough to be using the word denier, they just like to name call as most children do. We all want a clean earth and we can do it without using the tactics of fear. They don't need money to do it, they need to learn to do all they can to NOT use the things that they believe are causing it, like riding a bike, or not buying fireworks, recycling, one vacation every 3 years not twice a year. When money is used it only creates greed as money often does. Leaving money out of the equation just could be the best course of action. Money would be better left in the peoples pockets and a reduction of anything that is considered as high polluting. Calling names to make themselves feel better is no way to get the job done, that's for sure. It only gets peoples backs up rather than tackle the problem of pollution of ALL types.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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I applaud your sentiment CS. It would take an unprecedented upheaval of the status quo.... which is why i cannot ever see it happening in our lifetime, or even significantly beyond that (the money i mean). Maybe i'm too pessimistic!
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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It would indeed take a lot to act accordingly to the problem, we'll never stop. Hopeful to see maybe Star Trek scenario happen one day :lol:

So was reading an article yesterday about Antarctica gaining ice, NOAA has stuck by their claim of ice accumulation. Stressed that it was unexplained. In the article they failed to mention anything about the natural melt in west Antarctica due to volcanic activity which has been monitored via satellite for some time. It is known about this hot spot under the glaciers yet did not mention it. The assumption that Antarctica was hopelessly melting was misled and wrong. So I ask, is it possible that they just don't know enough about Climate to be scaring the public into fear driven actions and thoughts. I worry about this to quick of judgement that is handing over a lot of money and as well as individuals welfare and rights. The world is easily put in a panic. Media has only been around by satellite for 30 years and look what it has done. Media itself is scary. This is what to think about when discussing trillions in dollars to specialized groups to receive that money. Climate Change is much more than that, we're talking social as well, wealth, who's in power, it isn't just about the CO2 story, much more deeper than that.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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Short-term fluctuations in Antarctic ice / glacier cover cannot be used as a sole evidence or proof verifying or falsifying the long-term global climate change - it's much less simple and straightforward than that. As for the satellites see one of my previous posts.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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"Short-term fluctuations in Antarctic ice / glacier cover cannot be used as a sole evidence or proof verifying or falsifying the long-term global climate change"
-Tell that to the scientists who think it does. I agree, maybe a hundred years of satellite data which has been mentioned a number of times in this thread already, would be enough to at least get an idea. Remember, the science is settled, yeah right, don't think so, lol.

They're quick to jump that it is melting from AGW, but as soon as there is evidence to the contrary they'll come up with a new excuse. They(meaning those who agree that it is officially settled) have changed the historical data to match the trend. Charts and numbers are not accurate. No longer are the bouys used, but instead use present day tankers ballasts for ocean surface temperatures. The data has been skewed and that is unacceptable science. The fact that the information of why west Antarctica is melting is just another sign that the info people are being fed is directed at AGW. West Antarctica is melting from below, the temperature in Antarctica almost NEVER gets above 0. For years people were convinced that Antarctica was melting, well guess what, they've been had. If people would stop using energy in a wasteful way, stop being greedy, this would have a direct reduction in CO2, giving money to groups that have their own agenda is a big mistake. I am still not sure if people understand the point I am making, not sure if anyone does. Clean planet is the object, we all want that.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Sophia »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:Remember, the science is settled, yeah right, don't think so, lol.
And yet when challenged to produce evidence to the contrary the best you can manage is an article with laughably stupid assertions like "they were wrong about some random mostly irrelevant thing, so, uh, the whole theory must be wrong!" and "small numbers are small, so, uh, they don't matter!"

Anyway, remember that list I gave you? This Antarctica thing is on it.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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I've lost first my temper but then I regained it and lost my interest in continuing this conversation. It's endless, it's hopeless. It's impossible to argue with you, CS, because you confuse everything so much, mix facts with opinions with obvious rubbish, you don't have the most basic knowledge of how science and scientist work and how climate and its research work. You just chain all possible and impossible arguments endlessly without any real internal logic. I'm out of this thread before I say something I would regret later.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Paul Stevens »

I have one suggestion: Ban the three-letter word 'y'-'o'-'u'
from the forum. Perhaps forum software ought to have
such an option. Four-letter words are troublesome but
that three-letter word seems to get us into even worse
trouble!
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Jan »

Would "thou" be still allowed? :roll:
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Not to worry guys, the thread was reactivating using the phrase, JUST FOR FUN:

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/11 ... 447257780/ , just how some scientists think on the speed at which Climate Change can happen.

This one here is very interesting, scientists only in the past two years have discovered the largest volcano on the planet, just two years ago.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tam ... lp00000592

It shows scientists have not the whole picture yet. This thread was started by acknowledging that volcanic activity under the poles were melting the sea ice at the N pole which had been melting at a very fast pace. Russian scientists conducting diving exploration discovered an active volcanic range under the Arctic sea ice which provided some stunning pictures beneath the ice. At the time the main stream media was posting a lot of fear that it was all caused from man. Surely it is not. Man has an effect, there is no argument there as has been posted throughout this thread. The argument is why people continue to do the things that claim to cause it. It doesn't stop people from doing what they want to do in the least, which is what the argument is about.

This is climategate, not gang up on Chaos because of the different point of view, share your knowledge. Let's talk about it instead of insults. Please don't underestimate each others intelligence, it's unfriendly and unwarranted.

Paul Steven's, No Y O U s , :lol:

It is thought that 75% of volcanoes are underwater. The continual discovery of smokers on the ocean floor is increasing in numbers, so far according to the Smithsonian book of Knowledge, that there are 100,000 of them they know of, but the ocean has hardly been explored, so there is a lot of missing information to the equation. Scientists constantly say how the ocean has not been explored, very little of it. If this is so then how is it possible the computer models and present day thinking have climate written in stone. Science needs more time and people need to take action on their beliefs instead of hypocritically using fear mongering to either to believe in it or be ridiculed for questioning the science which is the result. So if the Antarctic is growing in ice and not shrinking, then the past 5 years have been moot and people were not being told the truth. That's not how to teach people, that's utterly wrong.

Sophia, no need for trouble, sorry if that helps.

Jan, keep that open mind, would love to learn what is taught in your geology class, love this kind of stuff.
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Re: What the... Snow in June, then in August!

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This article is interesting, it's a 5 minute read. Just to show how much we don't know about our oceans or its volcanic activity. Hopefully those interested in the truth will read it all. Here are some points.

"“We’re seeing it come alive,” said Maya Tolstoy, a marine geophysicist at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University. She recently got a preview that included an eruption. “It’s exciting,” she added. “We’re just starting to understand what’s going on.”

John R. Delaney, an oceanographer at the University of Washington who conceived of the observatory decades ago, said it would help scientists better grasp not only the volcanic ridges but the surrounding waters, which cover most of the planet.

“Suddenly, a technological door has opened on studying the ocean from within,” he said in an interview. The new perspective, he added, “is the only way we’re ever going to understand its true complexity — the hundreds of processes.”

A main question is to what extent the volcanism changes over time. The old idea was that the eruptions of oozing lava and related activity occurred at fairly steady rates. Now, studies hint at the existence of outbursts large enough to influence not only the character of the global sea but the planet’s temperature."

NOW READ THAT LAST PARAGRAPH, and these people study the ocean.

"The cause, she proposed, is Earth’s slightly elliptical orbit around the sun. That changes the strength of the sun’s gravitational pull on Earth during the year and, as a result, the magnitude of the tides that squeeze the planet. She said the eruptions coincided with the annual letup of the squeeze. More boldly, Dr. Tolstoy suggested that such mechanisms might help explain how the planet’s regular ice ages end so abruptly — long a mystery."

This paragraph above mentions how GRAVITY push and pulls on the earths magma and can be seen as why quick ice ages appear or disappear.

"In an interview, Dr. Tolstoy said mounting evidence from the seabed suggested that the volcanic ridges were “exquisitely sensitive” to slight changes in stress, making them open to a variety of celestial influences. Scientists say such factors might one day enhance their understanding of why Earth’s climate has varied so markedly over the ages, improving their computer models and forecasts.

The above paragraph points out that the science is NOT SETTLED, we know so little.

"Looking to the future, the authors describe the observatory and its importance for seeing the ocean from within. The investigations, they conclude, “are still in their infancy.”

This last paragraph mentions the fact we are in our infancy in knowledge, meaning the science is growing and not settled.

Please read the article, it helps educate oneself about how little we know and how computer modeling is useless until we have all the data, one bit out and the whole program doesn't work, basically that's what computer models are, SQUARE,lol.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/scien ... f=yfp&_r=0
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