Port/remake for tablets and phones

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PaulH
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Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by PaulH »

Some of you may have seen on our Facebook page that a gentleman and his team plan to do a remake of DM for mobile devices:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5726112 ... ment_reply

I have no issue with the premise of this, I would like to be able to play the game on my Android device. However, the funding needed (200,000 Euros) seems very excessive to me. Is this normal? Would it really take 3 people a year?

I do have issue with this comment though:
"Dungeon Master" has no copyright, and today there are many versions, made bad or ruining the initial spirit of the game.
That is a bit of a smack in the face to the hard work done by free by people here, one of course being a true port.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Gambit37 »

It's not legal to trade on the Dungeon Master name or IP because it's still owned by Wayne Holder. Cowsmanaut said as much in the response to that thread.

I've no idea whether 3 people could make it in a year for €200K. If they are going full 3D, it will most likely take much longer than that, depending on their experience. If they want to make a 2D version, it would still take a long time, but may be possible in a year. Either way, I wouldn't trust them, and the amount they're asking for will never be reached.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Paul Stevens »

I have no Facebook account and cannot see what
they are saying. But 200,000 Euros is quite ridiculous.
It must be a joke of some sort. They certainly do
not expect anyone to come up with that kind of money.

As for the "made bad" comment: who would be the best
judge of that? Answer: "Those who know the game best. Us."
Consider the source.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Gambit37 »

PaulStevens: here's the Kickstarter link for the project they've launched:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/49 ... er-rebirth
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Paul Stevens »

Gambit37: Thank you, sir. If it ain't a joke then it
must be a scam. Nothing they say makes any sense
to me.

I see they have already got $11. They may have salted
the pot.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Sophia »

The thing that amuses me the most is that any remake that attempts to stay true to the original is almost by necessity going to draw upon the large volume of research, experimentation, and reverse-engineering that has been done by this community, whose efforts they're so quick to dismiss.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by zoinkers »

200000 EUR sounds like a minimal amount. But of course, just reading the kickstarter makes it clear that there is no substance there and fools and their money...
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by PaulH »

If they get 2000, never mind 200,000, I will be amazed. In fact I 200.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Saumun »

Also, when you click the FAQ about copyright... there is this!
"Dungeon Master Rebirth" is a new game based on the legendary "dungeon master".
It is not a conversion for the mobile, but a new game that takes up only the gameplay and the spirit of the original (unique!).
Unique is a bit of a push isn't it?
Isn't the same statement true of a great many games, going right back to EOB, Bloodwych, Crystal Dragon, etc?
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Jan »

Well, I think these people are either amateurs or criminals. Or both. :wink:

On a more general note, the number of DM-inspired games released or at least intended during the last couple of years again proves that the game had a timeless quality and still attracts and inspires new audience (read: after all, we might not be the nerds completely stuck in the previous century :wink: ).
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Gambit37 »

Yep, good point Jan. DM certainly has lasted the test of time!

As for this Kickstarter, it's one of the worst I've ever seen. The page is next to useless to describe what they're doing. And the backer levels make absolutely no sense whatsoever -- what are these special rewards and items? Are they things in the game that will be gievn to the player? It's an exceptionally unprofessional pitch and guaranteed to go nowhere. I feel a bit sorry for them to be honest.

If you read the guy's bio on there, it's clear he's never made a game before, so why on earth he thinks anyone would trust him with 200K is beyond me.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Ameena »

Wow, someone else trying to make money out of the still-copywrited DM :O. I read the Kickstarter page (can't see the Facebook one as you need an account to log in) and the description sounds rather like "Hey, we're remaking this old game because all the current remakes are terrible, but we're going to stick to the spirit of the original...by adding in a whole load of mechanics that weren't even in it" :D. Well, I wonder what will happen with this one...
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Good ole money, isn't it great stuff. It does make me think a little. Maybe if he was shown what everyone has accomplished with it since, throw a little spin into the mix. Yes, I can see something coming out of this. If the dedication is as he says, this could be a door that can lead to a step forward. It is good to know there are some out there wanting to advance this old clunker of a game. Spicy.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Gambit37 »

It's nothing to do with money, it's about intellectual property rights. These guys don't have the rights to use the Dungeon Master name.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

AH, again it is puzzling, does RTC or DSB or CSBwin have those rights?
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Gambit37 »

No they don't, but RTC, DSB etc aren't trying to make any money from it. So I see the point you were making after all.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Thank you Gambit, from what I understand, it is that as long as there is no money involved that it's a good idea to spread DM. I've contacted this fellow, maybe he's worth investigating and investing some time with, might be fruitful. If he can spread DM around the globe then he's of value regardless of the money, perhaps an offshoot of the original, enough to bypass the copyright and not to hurt anyone's feelings. I understand how it can upset some people, read plenty of posts that certainly indicate that. It's worth a shot for the sakes of this old klunker, if he means rebirth, I'm in.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Paul Stevens »

Chaos-Shaman wrote: if he means rebirth, I'm in.
It appears that you are not _ALL_ the way in.
He still has only one backer for a total of $11.
But who knows? He only needs $219557 more.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Saumun »

Don't think i'll be able to resist a quick look on the 29th.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by oh_brother »

To play devil's advocate for a moment, perhaps by remakes "made bad" he is referring to the android version that some guy made a year or two ago.

Still his pitch ominously vague, poorly written and clearly infringes on copyright. And 200,000 to fund three programmers for a year is, umm, generous to say the least (especially when they plan to have a marketable game at the end to make more money). But I'm sure he is doing it for the love of the game... :roll:
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Wasn't referring to money, was speaking for the idea of spreading a decent version globally, THEN create a whole new game AFTER it has peeked some interests. Instead of making money on a 25 year old game, it's the attraction from it that will spawn a new dungeon, hopefully 3D inspired. DM is a no go to make money, waste of time and it very much so upsets people for various reasons. I'm all in for a 3D dungeon style rebirth, FORGET DM if all they want is money, it won't work. I'm surprised by the original makers that they overlook the benefits of putting out a working version, right now young people laugh at the thought of playing the old game, it's only old timers like us that care. That being said it would be of great interest to the world if these same programmers of the original DM decided to move forward and do a 3D version. I have seen some out there but they all resemble DOOM, not quite breaking out on their own. Doom is not better than the original DM, so I see no benefit from games like that. What has really bugged me about today's games is the online gaming, where once again money has found its way into the system so that anyone can buy their way in, disgusting to me, great for others. These games don't seem interesting, and spending money to gain points or whatever is childish and it does cause wars between people. Know this because I have children who have been involved since day one, and have heard it all, they too spent money on online gaming. If at all possible some thoughtful creator will bypass this money making scheme and go back to the original thought, beat the program not the people playing it because that is a waste of money and time as anyone can pay their way up the ranks, and if by chance a person does it legit they'll get accused of cheating and so forth, again childish. An adult game would be welcomed right now. Problem is there is more money in online gaming so might as well kiss the chances of that happening goodbye. To me, DM was the best ever game played, all on my own, no money involved, however it did inspire me to buy more ram and an eternal drive. Long live DM regardless of money, copyright or whatever obstacles are in the way, it deserves more.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Saumun »

Problem is CS... It really ISN'T Dungeon Master, or is it?

We get the following almost contradictory quotes:
Although primarily be based almost true to the original version for the Atari ST / Amiga, we plan to add new features.
"Almost true to the original"... Sounds from this as if it is basically DM with some new stuff and levels. But apart from the platform there is nothing new here. Only what custom dungeon creators have been doing for years.

But then:
It is not a conversion for the mobile, but a new game that takes up only the gameplay and the spirit of the original.
"Only the gameplay and spirit"... So how "almost" true to the original is it? Not at all maybe? Half way? Simply not enough info. In either case, i find it hard to believe he can make money from the copyrighted "Dungeon Master" name.

Anyway, it scarcely matters here. If this guy gets 200k euros, i'll show my arse on the town hall steps... and believe me, nobody wants to see that. Fortunately they won't have to.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Gambit37 »

I don't understand all this talk about a rebirth of Dungeon Master. Any rebirth already happened with Legend of Grimrock, spectacularly so, and has since been followed by the other similar games riding on its success.

DM was a great game in its day, but the original programmers are way too late to do anything new with it, even if they were in a position to do so, which they're not. And as much as I admired FTL, they never had the right mindset for commercial innovation, which is why they went bust after spending too long on DM2 and delivering it way too late after games like Doom had already transformed the industry.

So. Enjoy the new 3D games. Enjoy the old Dungeon Master. But don't waste energy wishing for something that is never going to happen.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

As I was saying, it's a waste of time. A new INTERACTIVE dungeon style game with dialog is definitely on the wish list, graphics alone will not going to bring any dungeon to the front of the line. Sure we have that and nice added features, what is missing today is dialog. having an inventory and nice looking spells is much the same as every other game. For sure much more can be done. Not comfortable with the comment that the original creators can't produce some sort of fun project that's done on their own time, FOR FUN, don't believe that. MONEY MARSHA MONEY, lol, it's all about it isn't it. Might as well throw rocks into a cup or play pong, it's fun. Often we'd play that game on the site at work, the boss would get involved and lunch time was lots of fun.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by PaulH »

The new parts are likely to be 'in app purchases'.
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Saumun »

I see it came up 199970 Euros short!
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

lol
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Re: Port/remake for tablets and phones

Post by Jan »

As the Duke of Wellington said after the Battle of Waterloo, "it was a damn close run thing". :mrgreen:
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