Playing CSB again

Discuss Chaos Strikes Back, the "expansion pack" for Dungeon Master.
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Tzan-01
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Playing CSB again

Post by Tzan-01 »

It's been awhile, health problems, but I'm finally back. I started playing CSBwin again. The only previous game I could find was where I used only 2 characters. I got them up to PAL Master Fighter, Ninja and Priest and MON Master Wizard. I added the other 2 characters and have the original 2 up to MON Master Priests. The 2 new characters are Low Master Fighters and Ninjas, ON Master Priests and Um Master Wizards. I hope to get the first two up to Arch Master Priests and Wizards. I occasionally play them in Chaos Strikes Back. How is everyone doing?
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Ok, how're you since last time?
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Nice to see you are back! Hope you feel good and have fun here.
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by oh_brother »

I am always impressed when I see levels that high. I don't think I have ever gone past ON Master in anything (unless you count levels added by the firestaff or pendant feral). You must have done a lot of training...the worm room at the beginning?
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Re: Playing CSB again

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It took me awhile to figure out where I posted this.
Which is the version of DM and CSB that was ported over from the original ST (or Amiga?)
I build up the wizard levels using MON level lightening and light spells. Ninja levels by healing and wisdom potions. For the MON level Ninjas, kicking to death the rats at level 9 (hence the healing potions). Fighting with worms, rats and those spider things at level 12 for fighter levels. After the raise up a level I put them in CSB to see how well they do. The monsters in CSB (even the gigglers) are much tougher. I wish I could find the notes and maps I made when I played them years ago on the ST.

I had to leave the big toxic city and move to a very rural area. Its kind of a cross between Walton's Mountain and Mayberry. For one thing, we have to travel about 30 miles if we want to go to a movie theater. One afternoon I walked down this gravel road and came across some big boulders. I tried climbing them and fell on my stomach which really hurt and caused bleeding. My rescuer was actually a horse. She first placed her head on one of my shoulders. She let me hold onto her neck as she lifted me away from the boulders. Then 3 other horses came over. Their owner came over and drove me home. I gave the horses the apples I had in the pack on my bike. Now every time I go over there the 4 horses come running over to me. I'm still surprised at how friendly these horses are. I really like living in a rural area. The wall of my stomach has to be reconstructed. When stomach acid was coming through the holes in stomach it burned away some muscles in several areas that never grew back. I still have some internal bleeding but not as bad as it was. My whole GI tract is messed up.
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by beowuuf »

I think Gambit split it from the previous thread and moved it, which would not have helped!

CSBwin uses the original Atari engine.


And wow, while the internal problems themselves sound horrible, that's a touching story about the horses. Sadly, in the city, I imagine you might have been harder pressed to find such instant help despite being the same species!
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by Bit »

I'm also playing CSB again for the first time after 20 years testing my clone.
Because I want to speed it up a little, I'm cheating by studying the map with CSBuild - even then it's extremely tricky.
Spoiler
I wonder how anyone can have the idea that it's needed to have the orange gem in the backpack when walking over a pad to close a pit...
Most of the situations are absolutely strange to me - did I went that way the first time? I'm curious what will happen in the end - will I remember that? Or - the most interesting question... did I really finish it - or do I just believe that?!?!?
DM was still so familiar.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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@Tzan: As Beo said, it's a very touching story about the horses! I had almost tears in my eyes when I was reading it. It's sad, but it has a good ending - I hope you will recover fully as fast as possible. And - yes - I hadn't known you before because I joined the forums later, so, hello! :D

@Bit: About the orange gem: consult the Hint oracle and you will understand! :)
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Re: Playing CSB again

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@Tzan: I found your story very moving too. I can't imagine what must have gone through your mind after your fall, I would have been terrified. It's amazing that the horses came to your help; things like this do make we wonder about the notion of compassion in other animals -- we think it's just a human emotion. I'm glad you're on the road to recovery :)
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Thanks everyone, it means alot to read your kind words. Some differences in big city vs rural living. I grew up in the DC area, took care of my mom the last 12 years of her life. Then I moved to the Baltimore area. I have been hit by cars several times, some of them on purpose because they don't like bikes on the road. One car hit me on purpose and I ended up on the curb face down. Two guys were standing over me laughing. This is typical city living. Cars would go by while drivers and passengers would show me they have digital control by displaying their central digits to me. The cursing and name calling, laying on their horns. When I first moved down here to rural America I rode my bike down this gravel roads (lots of them in the country) looking for a lake. A red pickup truck came up from behind, he didn't try to pass, didn't hunk, just followed me. I just knew he was going to hit me. When we got to the paved section of the road he pulled up beside me and said, "I hope I ain't scared you. Folks on bikes usually fall in the gravel and I just wanted to make sure you made it through okay." You don't find this in the city. There were times I had to walk and I wasn't feeling good and strangers stopped and gave me rides to where I had to go. The first time I went to the grocery store on the bike two ladies asked me how far I had to peddle it to get home. It's about 4 miles. They put my bike and groceries in their truck and drove me home, no strings attached. You don't find this in the big cities.

I had 3 Thanksgiving dinners this Thanksgiving. Every year all the small country churches get together and have a community dinner. A friend I made down here wanted me to go with him to it so I did. About an hour after I got back home my next door neighbors came over with a large dinner for me, and I didn't have the heart to tell them I already ate. They stayed a few hours and ate with me. Shortly after they left a Mennonite family that moved nearby (I fed their cows while they were building their house) came by with a big dinner. They said they didn't want me to spend Thanksgiving all by myself. How could I tell them I just ate 2 dinners already? Folks in the country will make sure you're fed. All of their dogs are always coming over to sit and play with me. They sit in front of the door barking till I go out. They also chase the coyotes away. Lots of horses, cows, pigs, goats, llamas, and donkeys around here. Chickens too. One of the neighbor's chickens lay eggs in my back yard. Freshly laid eggs tastes a whole lot better then what you buy in the stores. There's lots of wild turkeys too--they taste real good. Friends give me venison from the deers they shoot. Lots of snakes too. I went out on the back deck this past summer and when I turned to go back in a baby rattler was on the deck shaking his tail and reared up. Mind you, I backed up real slow and let him leave in peace. Baby snakes don't hold any venom back, you get it all. I ain't aggravating a baby rattler. Rattlers, water moccasins and copper heads are the poisonous snakes around here, but we have lots of non-poisonous ones too. I can now tell you, since I live across from a large cattle ranch, and cows all around, that cows' flatulence does not cause global warming, it doesn't even cause local warming. We had ice storms all last winter (my first winter down here). It was so abnormally cold and icy that they wrote a book about it. This is also part of tornado alley. I'm in a valley so I see the funnel clouds go over, then they touch down when they get over flat lands.

Now on to DM/CSB. Please give me details on CSBuild and how that works. I'm playing the CSBwin version, will it work with this? (on a side note, while my ST has long since died I still have the original Atari 300 baud modem. I'm holding the box now, it says, "THE ATARI 1030 MODEM With MODEMLINK TELECOMMUNICATIONS PROGRAM). Anyway, CSBuild might help me get beyond this demon level with rock piles and flames. I went down this long hallway to a dead end but knights coming from behind me. Has anyone played CSB with ArchMaster anything? If so, was it any easier? I've got MON Master Wizards and Priests and there were a couple gigglers that survived MON level fireballs from them.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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You tell such fascinating stories, Tzan-01. Thank you.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Hehehehe, that bit about the three Thanksgiving dinners reminded me heavily of an episode of "The Vicar of Dibley" (a sitcom over here which finished a couple of years ago...you can probably YouTube episodes of it) called "The Christmas Dinner Incident". Surprisingly, it was one of the Christmas specials ;).
And that thing about the horses in your previous post was really sweet ;).
As for CSB...at the "Dead End" bit (that's what it is called - there's a carving on the wall somewhere along there informing you of such), there is a secret wall that opens. I'm not entirely sure what it is that opens it - I think it's on a timer of some kind which is probably triggered by you moving along the corridor or something. Anyway, if you hang about a bit as the Knights approach you, eventually the wall opens and you can leg it along the rest of the corridor.
The "demon level with rock piles and flames" is, incidentally, called the "Diabolical Demon Director", or "DDD" for short :).
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Those things about your cities and the trucks really scared me. I always thought it's getting worse here, but that's all nothing compared to that. Be glad that you're out of this now. But then, poisonous snakes would scare me even more...

Using CSBuild for cheating spoils the fun, because you won't stop with it - it's way too tempting!
I just have reasons for doing so (and it saves some time to play other dungeons :P). After all it was good that I posted that, because without it, Jan hadn't pointed me on the oracle. I completely did forget that and have to check how the clone-program works on that theme. Thanks Jan!
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Re: Playing CSB again

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@Tzan: Wow! You do have an interesting life! The 3-dinners story made me laugh, too! :D

I know what you are talking about, because I kind of live two different lives - from Monday to Friday I live and work in Prague, a big city where people are not nice and don't talk to each other and the air is terribly polluted and where I miss the nature and where riding a bicycle (I love riding a bicycle) is almost a suicide. And for weekends, I always return to the rural Highland where I come from and where I live with my family, and it's really a "clash of civilisations", as you described it - people are much nicer, and the life goes slower, and there's a lot of nature around and everything, so this is a real life! :P

About the CSBuild: Bit described it precisely - it spoils you the whole game and once you look into it, you won't stop! So I really can't recommend it! BEWARE! *raises his voice dramatically* However, you can download it here: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/697 - start it, and open the dungeon.dat file of CSB in it. But really, this is not the best solution. Use the Hint Oracle before you use CSBuild, or ask here, on the forums!

EDIT: Sorry, you have to open your savegame file (e.g. csbgame.dat) with CSBuild. The dungeon.dat file includes only the starting prison.
Last edited by Jan on Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by Gambit37 »

Tzan's stories make me yearn for a simpler, rural life :-)

In CSB, the Dead End opens when you face away from it -- so when you are facing the knights coming to chop you up, just keep steeping backwards and you'll get through it.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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One of my saddest experience in the big city was when I first moved to the Baltimore area. It was Brooklyn Park. There is this little shopping center on Route 2 with an Ollie's in it. You walk up 2 steps to get on the sidewalk where the stores are, and there were two men sitting on the steps as I walked up to the stores (I was going into Ollie's). When I came out only one man was on the steps, and he was laying on his side and looked a little blue. I felt his wrist and didn't feel a pulse so I kept asking for someone to let me use their cell phone to call 911 and everyone ignored me. Finally someone quickly said there was a phone booth across the street so I had to run over to there to make the call. Sadly the man had died. It hit me hard because I had taken care of my mom the last 12 years of her life, and I held her hand as she passed away. Something like that doesn't leave you. The mother of a friend of mine was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer so I helped him take care of her. I was with them both when she passed away. A few weeks after that we took a trip to Schuyler, Virginia--the real Walton's Mountain. There are only about 400 folks that live in this little country hamlet at the foot of the Blue Ridge mountains. The folks were right trusting and friendly. One of the family that lives there took us with other residents on a hayride throughout the whole hamlet, and they would tell us where they lived, pointing out their homes as we rode by. The pastor of the church the Hamner family grew up in let us use the church's property to park the car and use their picnic facility. I asked if I could use the church's bathroom and he told me where it was in the basement. He said "Please be sure to turn out the lights and lock the doors when you leave." then he left. While I appreciated the trust I was also worried--what if some scumbag came in and robbed them blind? My friend took plenty of photos so I wrote a blog and added some of the photos to it. Someone told Earl Hamner (who created the Waltons tv show) about it. He read it and then emailed me telling me he really enjoyed reading about my trip to the hamlet where he was born and grew up. That made me feel really good. I love the country, and I love living in the country. Jan, I think the city/country lifestyle clashes are world wide. I'm surrounded by hills and mountain and I love it. The first time I climbed to the top of one I looked down into the valley and saw a pack of coyotes. They kill some of the calves that live across from me. They bought some donkeys to attack the coyotes when they come down from the hills and mountains. One coyote caught a rabbit in my garden this past summer and tore the head off it. He turned toward me but the dogs next door came charging at it and it ran across the cow pasture across the street.

I love Are You Being Served? and Keeping Up Appearances (Hyacinth Bucket: "It's Bouquet!"). My friend Brenda told me to watch for an episode of The Andy Griffith Show where he ate 3 spaghetti dinners. Is the Vicar of Dibley on DVD?

I was playing DM this afternoon, practicing to raise their levels and then put them in CSB. I am in level 9. I'm kicking the rats to build up their ninja levels, which of course means the 2 back guys are making healing potions to build up their priest levels. As you all know the rats do major damage when they strike. At that point my 2 front characters are Pal Master Fighters and Ninjas and Mon Master Priests and Wizards. I've been kicking rats for several days now. I had to stop kicking so I can give them healing potions before they die, so I'm not kicking them but they're attacking me. Suddenly one of my front guys raises a fighter level, to Mon Master Fighter, but he wasn't fighting, he wasn't even kicking at this point. I'm confused. How could the fighter level raise instead of the ninja level? And how could it raise when I wasn't kicking or fighting, but preparing healing potions?

Thanks for the tips on the Dead End. I wasn't actually going to tamper with the dungeon, just look at the map. The maps I downloaded have so many lines and blocks and things that I can't tell which level I'm on. What level does one start out in, where you have to kill 3 worms?
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by ian_scho »

Tzan-01 wrote:Suddenly one of my front guys raises a fighter level, to Mon Master Fighter, but he wasn't fighting.

The maps I downloaded have so many lines and blocks and things that I can't tell which level I'm on. What level does one start out in, where you have to kill 3 worms?
You gain fighter experience getting hit by monsters, I believe. It has to be the least efficient way to gain fighter xp :)

You start on level 4, the big room bottom right.
Image
Image from the DMEenclyclopedia

Don't forget to use the Hint Oracle!
H083 - START
There is treasure in this room. Some is scattered on the floor. Some must be purchased with Gold Coins that can be found.
Beware the trap that brings in more enemies.
The Worms hold the key to your escape.
Once enlightened, a better exit becomes clear.
Put the torch in the sconce and an exit will appear.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Tzan - Yes, Vicar of Dibley is available on DVD. I've definitely seen box sets in the shops. That's over here, of course. I've no idea how/if these things sell over in America, which, by your references to various American-y places, I'm guessing is where you are ;).
And it does sound like people in cities are knobs while country folk are actually decent. Personally I wouldn't want to live in a city anyway - don't like really built-up places with loads of people and crap. I prefer to actually be able to see stuff like trees and stuff, and be able to hear birds and foxes and stuff in the background rather than cars. My friend got a job in Lincolnshire a few months ago (a county some way north of where I live, it's lots of farmland and it's very flat - loads of long straight roads going round the outside of fields with dykes round the edge), working at a place called Willow Farm where they have goats and degus and guinea-pigs and horses and erm...axolotls and stuff. The people there don't lock the door on the farmhouse or their cars, so it looks like the whole trust-among-country-people carries over here too ;).
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Ameena wrote:And it does sound like people in cities are knobs while country folk are actually decent.
That's an extreme generalisation. Its' not that people in cities are "knobs", it's that hundreds of factors of city living have made people more wary and less trusting. Most individuals are just as likely to be as nice as the next person -- you're just not going to see it as much due to them having other things on their mind, like not being knifed, or trying to get to work on time when the transport system has gone tits up. This doesn't make them bad people! People say London is unfriendly, for example, but if you actually just take the time to talk to strangers (a weird concept apparently), you'll find most people are agreeable and pleasant.

Tzan's stories do make rural living sound idyllic, but it has it's own problems too. Let's not forget that the grass isn't always greener.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Oh well yeah, I know - hey, I work in Bromley. That's pretty built-up but the majority of customers seem to be pleasant and polite, and sometimes I stand aronud and have a conversation with one who happens to share my interest in books (which leads me to eagerly recommend to them anything else I've read which I enjoyed :D).
I do think leaving someone to just die on some steps in the middle of town is a bit...inconsiderate, though :P.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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You don't have to have such a strong party. I am now busy with the 2nd corbum, and my fighters have both LO-master, though all of them are UM-master-wizards (one of them ON), and I got only one LO-master-priest. I doubt having any master title when I finished DM and imported them to CSB.
Sometimes I had to use some 'freeze life' stuff, and my one staff already ran out of 'confuse'-ability.
Perhaps in some situations 'invisibility' helps too. Have no idea if the 'darkness'-spell is of any use.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Someone (I think it was Trantor) told me before I replayed CSB that high level characters were not that important, and it is true. Fights are not the toughest part of CSB. The toughest parts are finding out where you are going, finding keys, solving puzzles, etc. (the first time I played food and water was also a big issue, but not now, maybe because I was more organised, used melee more than magic and also killed more dragons).

In the end my highest levels were just ON master (maybe Gothmog was an EE master wizard, can't remember, but certainly nothing higher). So, no you don't need high level characters, and having an Archmaster won't make the game much easier.
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Yeah, I think the highest level char I tend to have at the end of DM is Lo Master, possibly Um Master, but I think that's including ranks granted from the Pendant Feral and Firestaff.
No matter how high the level of your characters, that won't help them much if all you end up doing is running round going "Aaarrrgh where the hell is a fountain???" because you've run out of water or whatever ;).
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Ameena wrote:I do think leaving someone to just die on some steps in the middle of town is a bit...inconsiderate, though :P.
Oh yes, of course, I hope you don't think I was condoning such awful behaviour! That's a pretty shocking story to be honest :-(
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Re: Playing CSB again

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Suddenly one of my front guys raises a fighter level, to Mon Master Fighter, but he wasn't fighting, he wasn't even kicking at this point. I'm confused. How could the fighter level raise instead of the ninja level?
When a monster hits one of your chars (with a direct physical attack like rats do), you'll gain Fighter experience. It's very little though.

Loved your storys. Very touching. I'm a horse person, so I know a little about the magic horses naturally seem to have.
Your experience is quite unique. If you get the chance to have a horse of your own (or more like: a horse given the chance to have a human of its own), let them choose you. Standing in the middle of a herd, see what happens. You might meet a special someone. :-)
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Re: Playing CSB again

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City and country life have their pros and cons. You're close to everything in big cities. In the country, if you need an ambulance they have further to get to you--time can be critical. There isn't much for young folks to do, so they have to travel 30 miles to get to a big city. Cities do tend to be over crowded, and that leads to problems. You're on top of each other way too much, and that can tend to get on your nerves. Traffic jams are common and we all know how tempers flies under these conditions. Then there are the pollutants and toxins you have to breathe in daily. Crime rates are far higher in cities than in the country. The country provides cleaner environment. The conditions seem to lend themselves to folks being more friendly. I don't see folks going out of their way to help a stranger (though they will for a friend) that I see in the country. There are times I've left my doors unlocked when I've gone out and nobody comes in. I've left my bike unlocked when going to stores and it's always been there when I've come out. This is not common in the city. I still have a freezer full of vegetables I've grown this past summer. I haven't bought vegetables since June. Another big difference I find is, here in the country when friends invite me over for a cookout they make sure they have food I can eat. I have medical issues that prevent me from eating certain foods. When I lived in the cities my friends wouldn't invite be because I can't eat all that they can. I have a push along mower to mow 1.10 acre of grass, so two neighbors would bring their ride ons over and mow my grass for me. I reckon it depends on what catches your fancy which lifestyle you prefer. They're laid back down here. When I walked into the realtor's office she asked me to have a seat while she finished her lunch. We talked about things while she ate. Back up in Baltimore it was pointing at your watch and saying, "Come on, I've got things to do. If you want to sell me a house lets get moving!" I prefer the laid back attitude. I liked talking to the realtor instead of rushing about to get things done. That's my preference. Less crime, less toxins and pollutants, less stress, folks more friendly.

ToMi: These 4 horses are particularly friendly. The other horses down here are not as friendly as these 4 are. What was odder were these oxen. I went camping one weekend with a lot of other folks, and Gerry game in with 4 oxen pulling a wagon. He staked them out under trees near water. He said they ere friendly so I played with Charlie for awhile. He nudged me gently with his nose and liked being rubbed and having his ears scratched. Then I started playing with James and Charlie started bobbing his head and hitting the ground with a hoof. Gerry said, "Charlie must really like you, he's jealous of you playing with James now!" I never thought an oxen could be jealous like that. They're monster size. They obey his every command. Elizabeth, a goat, was also right friendly. She loved having her rump scratched.

I was loaned the DVDs that have all the episodes of The Vicar of Dibley. I like the line in the first episode when one guy, after being introduced to her as the vicar, says, "No she's not, she's a woman!" She points to her breasts and says, "These give it away every time don't they!" I asked myself, "Should I wait till Christmas Eve to watch the Christmas episode?" when I heard Jim's voice saying, "No no no no no no no no yes."

It's just something I want to do, get at least the 2 front guys up to Archmaster Wizards and Priests. They can stand and fight this way instead of running all the time. Those red things that fly and poison you are a bit much though. I climbed down their pit and killed them with poison cloud spells. They work on them better than many fireballs which uses more mana. I wish they put more water fountains in the game. I can get plenty of food, but there's not enough water.
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by Ameena »

The "red things" are called Munchers. And yes, they are little bastards ;).
Water's a problem if you're still at the "Err wtf where the hell am I now?" stage of the game. Once you get to know where the various routes are into the different sections, it's usually not too much of an arse to work your way back there. for example, there's a fountain in the room downstairs from "Supplies for the Quick", and another one at the bit in (I think) Neta, where you have to trap the Mummies in the little rooms.
Those oxen sound very sweet, btw ;).
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Tzan-01
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by Tzan-01 »

There is also a water fountain in the room right below the demon level. I just wish they had more. When my 2 front champions raised up to Monmaster fighter I put them in CSB. Now I have all these keys but they don't fit any doors I come to. In the demon level I got to an iron door with a black flame behind it but no way to open the door. I thought I went through it before I replaced my saved game from DM but I don't remember. I reckon I have to go back to the beginning and try to find these other keys.

I downloaded one of those dungeons for CSBwin but when I went to unpack it I got all these checksum errors. Does anyone know why?
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beowuuf
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by beowuuf »

The doors beyond the demons all need a special key from the previous section of the junction of the ways
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Jan
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Re: Playing CSB again

Post by Jan »

Tzan-01 wrote:I downloaded one of those dungeons for CSBwin but when I went to unpack it I got all these checksum errors. Does anyone know why?
Strange. Which dungeon did you download and from where - from Paul Stevens' list? Don't you have an obsolete version of the (un)compressing software? What did you use to unpack it?
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