CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

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siggboy
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CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by siggboy »

Hi,

I've completed DM with the same party selection as 15 years ago (Hissssa, Daroou, Gothmog, Elija), and I've now started CSB with that party imported from DM. They kick some butt because I've trained them a bit in DM. To be exact, the front row is Lo-Master Fighter/Mage, the back row is Lo-Master Priest/Mage; all are Expert in the respective other two professions.

So, obviously those should not be too bad for CSB (in fact I've started playing already).

OTOH, I'm not too happy with Daroou anymore and wanted to play some new characters for a change anyway.

Therefore I'm thinking about re-training a new party (in DM, probably) and starting over with CSB after importing them.

My question now is: How advisable is it to go into CSB with a two-character party. Too hard? Mind you I've never played CSB and I want a spoiler-free first-time experience. If going in with only two would turn out to be too hard I'll probably keep the party I currently have (can't be bothered to train another four-person party).

Thanks for any advice.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Ameena »

Hmm, well, since you've not played CSB before then maybe a full squad would be better, since it's much harder than DM - think of DM as the beginner-level dungeon, sort of your training ground. CSB is much more complex and deadly and stuff...you are most likely to die a lot even with a full party. I suppose it depends on whether you're used to playing with just two characters - it's how I play nowadays and I manage alright (carrying over my DM twosome into CSB), but then I have played through CSB before and I know the layout of the dungeon a bit better and stuff. Maybe continue with your current party since you already know how good/bad they are at stuff, so you'll see how CSB compares to what DM was like with those guys - if you find you're mashing through it easily then maybe you can manage fine with half that number - if you're having a lot of difficulty then you might realise that you can't do it with just two just yet. Or something.
I'd never even thought of the idea of playing with less than four people till I'd been on this forum a while (well, the older version before multiple forums merged into this big one we use now), and saw posts about people doing solo runs and all that. Personally I find two to be my optimum number, at least for the dungeons I know - if I was gonna play a new dungeon I might still take four since I wouldn't know what I was coming up against - I might need the extra inventory space to load up with more food in case I got horribly lost somewhere, or whatever ;).
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by siggboy »

Thanks for your input.

Actually I'm quite aware that CSB is fiendish ;-). I've seen others play it a long time ago, I know it's non-linear and full of fake walls and teleports into where-the-frack-am-I-now etc.

As I've mentioned I've wandered around a bit already and managed fine with my party. However, the monsters I've met so far were not a real challenge. The first bit of the KU path was easy, I've whacked through them with no problems.

Maybe I should complete DM again with my two-people chick squad (Sonja/Chani) and see how that goes and how fast they level.

In fact, I'm mainly interested in having a two-champion party for the following reasons:
  • Champions level faster (I like dinging ;-)
  • Less armor to worry about (e.g. two pairs of speed-boots will do it etc.)
  • Food won't be such a problem, because there would be fewer mouths to feed.
  • Projectile dodging
However, if one actually does need quadruple fireballs etc. unless one knows which areas are hard or to avoid, then obviously a full party is better. That's the area where I'm unsure.

But probably you're right: most people won't have any experience with playing through CSB for the first time and not having a full party. Like yourself, it also never struck me to go with less than four until I read about it here a few years ago (this is a new account, the forum switch ate my old password ;-).
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Ameena »

Well, you could always start up your two-player party (DM should hopefully go a bit quicker now you've already gone through it and you can hopefully remember where stuff is and how to solve puzzles and all that) and then if you're finding CSB too much of an arse then you can just go back to your four-player game.
Your reasons for preferring only two characters look like they're pretty much the same as mine. Yes, it does mean that you have less quickfire power when it comes to spells, but since you only need to worry about two characters practicing and earning the exp to gain levels, hopefully they'll be higher levels quicker or something because there's only two of them to zap stuff, so the spells will be a higher level and you'll need less of them to kill stuff with ;).
Another reason for possibly taking all four characters through CSB, though, might be an inventory thing - for starters, there are quite a few keys to pick up throughout the dungeon and if it's your first time through the game you'll have no idea how many of them ae actually useful or whatever. Like in DM where you can have a spare gold key if you do all six areas on Level 3 (the one with "The Matrix", "Time is of the Essence", etc), only CSB has lots more keys than that. There are plenty of areas you probably don't even need to go near and doors that can be avoided by taking a different route, or whatever, but you'd have no way of knowing this unless you've been reading all the spoilers and looking at maps and stuff.
And if you're carrying so many keys, there's less space for food, and you don't know when you might get stuck in some kind of room or corridor which you can't find your way out of for a while and which has no food-producing mobs in it (Worms, Screamers, Dragons, etc), or maybe just get stuck on a puzzle for a really long time...though there's usually the option to at least backtrack and go somewhere else for a while. There is one spot in the game you'll keep coming back to (you've been there already), and if you run around randomly for long enough you'll probably end up there eventually, at least most of the time ;).
Incidentally, which bit do you call "the first bit of the Ku path"? Do you mean all the way up to the DDD, or just one area of Ku that you've done so far? Because you don't always end up at the same point every time you enter a path. I'm just curious as to how much of the area you've done so far and whether you've picked up certain items. Personally, I consider Ku to be the easiest of the four Ways, and I always do it first 'cause...well, I find it easier :). I suppose it may depend on how you play, but I always find one Way in particular to be a total arse, with stuff going on all over the place and plenty of ways to get yourself killed ;).
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Jan
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Jan »

Nowadays I usually prefer solo-runs, but as Ameena described, if you're new to a dungeon, it's better to have more space in your inventory to be able to carry all the interesting stuff you find (unless you have 5 chests and a character with 100 strength to carry them, lol). Two characters seem appropriate for CSB, but what the heck, if you already started with four characters, perhaps you'd like to go on with them. In my opinion, fights are not so challenging in CSB, and you won't be gaining as much levels as in DM anyway (unless you spend a lot of boring time training in some specific monster-regenerating areas).

EDIT: Yeah, and welcome to the forums! :P
Last edited by Jan on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by beowuuf »

I did my first CSB run solo with Aroc, I think the twisting back on itself nature of the game lets you find area to put lots of equipment in storage. Two champions should maximise your carrying and attack, while still being challenging.

Welcome to the forums btw!
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Trantor »

Welcome to the forums from me too! :)

I don't see a problem with just two champions in CSB. The hard part of CSB is usually not the monsters, it's finding your way around and solving the fiendish puzzles. Inventory space can become troublesome, but there should be enough chests around, and you can always brew KU potions so weight is not a real issue. The only path where less mana might become troublesome is
Spoiler
DAIN
, but if you don't go there first, you should be fine.

Have fun with CSB and enjoy the ride!
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by siggboy »

Thank you all for the help so far, also for welcoming me, which would not have been necessary since I've been here before but lost my old password due to forum conversion ;-).

I might try with a two-champion party, maybe report back about my experience here later.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Ameena »

Out of curiosity, what was your old username?
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by siggboy »

I think it was "sigi", but I don't remember which email I used to register, making it difficult to request a new password.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Trantor »

I think I remember you. You had Mophus as your avatar, right? :shock:
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Jan »

No wonder he changed his identity! :lol:
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by beowuuf »

Wow, you have a good memory Trant - the Sigi user date says joined 2005!

Anyway, reset the old account password and will send that and your old e-mail address to your new account as a PM if you want them.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by siggboy »

@Trantor: yes, indeed I had Mophus as my avatar -- you have a very good memory.

And LOL @Jan ;-).

BTW I'm in CSB now with my 4-champion party. It's going quite well so far, the magic map from the Amiga version really helps. It's still very difficult to piece an accurate map together, although not impossible. I love how CSB makes you embrace the fact that you're inside a three-dimensional space. I've used overhead pits several times now as reference points for my coordinate system. It's very nice when you stand in front of a pit which just *has* to lead all the way down to the Junction of the Ways -- and then find out you're perfectly right after jumping down ;-).

The fights are not that difficult. The Deth Knights are stupid enough to stand in my poison clouds, which usually kills them sooner or later. Killed two dragons so far, both with Blue+Green box and lots of poison. Easy.

I've gained quite a few levels for my champions already, which were quite high to begin with (see above). Nice.

But I still have no idea at all what I'm supposed to do... probably collect something from all four ways. Edit: The manual suggests I have to find the four corbums and throw them into the Ful Ya pit. It being the game manual, I guess that's what I have to do. Still no idea how, though, heh.

Edit: Beowuuf, I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. My old account did not have a lot of history after all, and it did have MOPHUS as an avatar. I'm not sure if I want to be associated with it any more ;-).
Last edited by siggboy on Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by siggboy »

On a related matter: does anybody here have Amiga disk images of CSB that are cleanly cracked? All the ones I've tried so far don't seem to be 100%. Currently I'm using the Betrayal crack but after a while it keeps asking me to insert the game disk. I can dismiss that requester with no apparent side effects, but it's getting very, very annoying.

I don't want to play CSBWin for lack of magic map there and really bad sound effects.

Amiga rulez forevah :-).
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Trantor »

You are correct about collecting Corbums and throwing them into the FULYA pit. The basic structure of CSB is rather simple:
Spoiler
Each path is separated into two parts. Collect a special key on each path, go up to the Diabolical Demon Director where all paths reunite, find the corresponding exit to your key and proceed on part two of the path. Then you will find the Corbum. The FULYA pit is at the top of the dungeon, and it is guarded rather heavily.
I cannot help you with Amiga disk images, though.

EDIT: Spoiler tags added.
Last edited by Trantor on Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CSB with two champions, on first run -- advisable?

Post by Ameena »

Maybe you should add spoiler tags to that description, Trant - Sigg did say he wanted a spoiler-free run of the game.
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