Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Discuss Chaos Strikes Back, the "expansion pack" for Dungeon Master.
This forum may contain spoilers.
Forum rules
Please read the Forum rules and policies before posting.
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

@ Jan
I haven't played tonight,but im hoping to get back to CSB tomorrow evening.

Re- 'Secret passage'
I'll have a look for this area next time i play.The demon area im in right now is absurdly difficult,and i think i'll have to go back to the DDD in order to stop them re-spawning or something.The problem with this level is those annoying invisible pits (which ruin any chance i have of making a map)

@ Gambit37
Re-'Demon drops a key i need'
I killed about 6 or 7 of the Demons,and none of them dropped any items.The Giggler in this area dropped a waterskin and a Ven potion.I cant defeat these fu*kers because my entire partys Mana runs out as im battling them.I have 7 magic box,and even that doesnt give me enough time to beat these things.
Its so annoying.Iv got Keys of B,Iron keys,golden keys,Topaz key,Skeleton Key ...and the black door lock isnt for any of those damn keys.
Iv got to keep killing demons to get a key??
The damn things can destroy my entire party with 3 of their fireballs too. They wont move beyond a certain point,but there seems to be other monsters that can enter behind my party (Worms and other wandering Demons) and thwart any attempt at sleeping to rebuild mana level.
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
Ameena
Wordweaver, Murafu Maker
Posts: 7515
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:25 pm
Location: Here, where I am sitting!
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Ameena »

I think there's more than one set of stairs leading up to that top level, though I could be wrong - possibly there's a way up from near each side of the Corbum Pillar? Maybe you can retreat and return to that level at a slightly less lethal spot ;).
You don't have to get that key off the Demon - I don't think I ever have. Poke around all the walls in the far corners and see what you can find ;).
______________________________________________
Ameena, self-declared Wordweaver, Beastmaker, Thoughtbringer, and great smegger of dungeon editing!
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

Ameena wrote:I think there's more than one set of stairs leading up to that top level, though I could be wrong - possibly there's a way up from near each side of the Corbum Pillar? Maybe you can retreat and return to that level at a slightly less lethal spot ;).
You don't have to get that key off the Demon - I don't think I ever have. Poke around all the walls in the far corners and see what you can find ;).
I entered Level 1 through a Blue Mist in stage 2 of Dain near the Corbum area.
It put me in an area with many invisible monsters attacking me and with invisible pits everywhere.
The demon area im in right now..i dont know how i found it.I was just running around trying to escape the invisible monsters..and i found a pair of boots of speed.

Its a large room.with demons at the far end and a giggler,and wandering monsters stop me from fighting the demons at long range.
My party cant Sleep to regain mana because creatures can enter this area behind me.
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
Paul Stevens
CSBwin Guru
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Paul Stevens »

Level one was supposed to be impossible
for inexperienced players. Everything is
working correctly except that RTC appears
to have ramped up the destructive power
of the Demon's fireballs. But you are supposed
to back out, learn more about the level in
general, and essentially learn to outwit it.
Remember, this is CSB, there is more than
one way to do everything, and you are not
expected to do everything the hardest
possible way. Going 'toe-to-toe' with those
Demons is the hardest possible way.

The Demon area you are in is one step from
the Ful Ya Pit. It is the last battle. The
"Final Boss Fight". You are not ready for it.
You have not prepared for it. Be patient,
go exploring, and study the entire level.
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

lord soth 75 wrote:i think i'll have to go back to the DDD in order to stop them re-spawning or something.
I think it's not the best idea - I think everytime you enter the highest level you respawn some of the monsters so the result of going back to DDD might be quite opposite to what you think.
lord soth 75 wrote:Its so annoying.Iv got Keys of B,Iron keys,golden keys,Topaz key,Skeleton Key ...and the black door lock isnt for any of those damn keys.
As you can guess from the appearance of the keyhole (remember DM - the
Spoiler
Tomb of the Firestaff
), the entrance to the Ful Ya pit area is opened by the
Spoiler
Master Key
.

There are two
Spoiler
Master Keys
in CSB. One of them is held by one of those demons. The other can be obtained in the "Vexing Vexirk" puzzle on one of the lowest levels of CSB. You didn't obtain it because you didn't listen to my advice - I told you to go there back again but you didn't. :wink:
lord soth 75 wrote:My party cant Sleep to regain mana because creatures can enter this area behind me.
In the
Spoiler
southwestern
corner of the large central room of that level there are stairs to the level below - you can rest there. Although you might find that it's not an entirely safe area, it's still much calmer than the rest of the Ful Ya pit level.
lord soth 75 wrote:Re- 'Secret passage'
I'll have a look for this area next time i play.
It's the last resort. If you can't defeat the demons, try to find this place. It might be quite hard. If you're unable to proceed to the
Spoiler
southeast
from the center of the level (to that secret passage), check the walls around. There's a
Spoiler
tiny switch on one of the walls to the east from the Demon Chamber
that changes the appearance of the whole level.
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

@ Jan
Re: "You didn't obtain it because you didn't listen to my advice - I told you to go there back again but you didn't."

But,i killed the Vexirk in that area before i had read your advice.All it dropped when it died was a cloak and some food iirc.
I returned there a couple of times,and there is no more Vexirk in that area.


Re: " In the southwestern corner of the large central room of that level there are stairs to the level below - you can rest there. Although you might find that it's not an entirely safe area, it's still much calmer than the rest of the Ful Ya pit level."

But if the Demons are indeed re-spawning....What is the point in just killing them over and over and then retreating down the stairs? Finding the Demon that holds this Master Key is like trying to find a needle in a stack of Hay.
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

lord soth 75 wrote:I returned there a couple of times,and there is no more Vexirk in that area.
Now this is really strange. There should be three Vexirks in total - well, actually, it's only one vexing Vexirk, he keeps coming back. So once you kill him for the first time, he drops the Square key and returns somewhere to the area with many doors (close to the key hole for the Square key). And now he carries the Master Key. If he's not there then there's something wrong with the game. It's a tricky place and the vexing Vexirk can get teleported around so you can spend some time walking there without finding him, but he should be there.

Anyway, it's not necessary to get the key from him.
lord soth 75 wrote:Finding the Demon that holds this Master Key is like trying to find a needle in a stack of Hay.
Maybe you've already killed him and did't notice him dropping the key? I can't remember how visible is the Master Key lying on the ground in RTC. Have you tried looking around a bit, checking the floor?

You can always go away and look for the "secret passage". :wink:
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
Ameena
Wordweaver, Murafu Maker
Posts: 7515
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:25 pm
Location: Here, where I am sitting!
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Ameena »

The Master Key shouldn't be too hard to spot - it's gold rather than grey, after all, so should show up pretty well on the floor unless something's standing on it ;). But personally I'd go with the "back door", using the secret passage 'cause then you can skip all that stuff and I think you only have a few Worms to deal with, plus anything that might end up following you but it's really, really close to the Ful-Ya Pit so you don't have to go far.
______________________________________________
Ameena, self-declared Wordweaver, Beastmaker, Thoughtbringer, and great smegger of dungeon editing!
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

You can also hear that a dying monster drops a key. You know:

KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM!!! *clink* KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM!!!

:roll:
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
Paul Stevens
CSBwin Guru
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Paul Stevens »

Jan wrote:one vexing Vexirk, he keeps coming back. So once you kill him for the first time, he drops the Square key and returns somewhere to the area with many doors
But only if you kill him
Spoiler
properly in the proper spots
.
The
Spoiler
Mirror of Dawn and a cheese
are central to
the puzzle of obtaining the Master Key, which, of
course,
Spoiler
is in a chest
.

That is hardly a hint.....far from a spoiler.
CSB strikes again! What a great game.......
Laughing out Loud! Literally!
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

Paul Stevens wrote:But only if you kill him
Spoiler
properly in the proper spots
.
My memory is not what it used to be. I'd thought Lord Soth managed to properly
Spoiler
corner
the vexirk in the proper
Spoiler
spot
but I've just re-read his older posts and found that he "normally" killed him. So, yeah, it was nasty and as a result the vexirk didn't come back of course. So that's alright. There's no way for our poor old Lord Soth to get this Master Key now. It's his punishment for killing the old good Vexing Vexirk. :wink:
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Gambit37 »

I've been reading a lot of stuff on the Legend of Grimrock forum: many players are saying it's too hard, or they have problems with this or that. CSB would clearly blow their tiny minds! :D :D :twisted:
User avatar
Paul Stevens
CSBwin Guru
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Paul Stevens »

Jan wrote:There's no way for our poor old Lord Soth to get this Master Key now
He could go back and get it. Unless he ate
the last
Spoiler
Cheese
. Tee, hee.
What a tickler. NOBODY knows all the tricks
of this game.
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

Gambit37 wrote:CSB would clearly blow their tiny minds!
The kids have no patience nowadays. They want it all and they want it now! :)

But it also proves that Lord Soth is a player of exceptional qualities (although he was quite lucky a few times, especially on the Junction). I can't imagine anyone else being able to (almost) finish CSB in so short period of time with only a very limited number of hints and support. Remarkable! *bows to LS*
Paul Stevens wrote:He could go back and get it. Unless he ate
the last
Spoiler
cheese
. Tee, hee.
What a tickler. NOBODY knows all the tricks
of this game.
:shock: WOW! Now, I'm stunned! Incredible! CSB won't stop surprising me! :shock:
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Gambit37 »

Paul Stevens wrote:He could go back and get it. Unless he ate
the last
Spoiler
Cheese
. Tee, hee.
What a tickler. NOBODY knows all the tricks
of this game.
Flippin' heck!? Really!? FTL were either very devious, or simply bonkers. Probably both. :)
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

@ Jan
The hints you guys have provided for me have been more than helpful so far.
The best tip (cant recall who it was who told me) was that about putting item back on the altar to go back to junction of ways.

I get the impression (though i could be wrong) that this game could be completed quite quickly if one knew the various short cuts,and which pits were useful to the partys progression.
I found a few routes that worked for me,and although i may be doing everything in an incredibly long winded manner (lots of back tracking ect) i have managed to stumble through the game up until this point.
Im having a blast playing CSB,and am greatly looking forward to getting stuck into some of the custom dungeons IF i manage to complete this game.

I wont get a chance to play again until Saturday night.Its been a fairly busy week. :(
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
beowuuf
Archmastiff
Posts: 20687
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 2:00 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by beowuuf »

The runs are insane for CSB... does Antman still hold the record?


And yes, ypur progress has been amazing, any hints, etc are mandatory for CSB. It comes with a hint oracle, after all! So hopefully the end level is defeatable for you. I felt the same 'grrrr, never get this' for the end of Legend of Grimlock yesterday, and then ended up beating it later on and had fun. So hopefully you'll find your rhythmn and succeed!


There is a bredth of custom dungeons, Conflux is amazing but the start is hard and it might be a little diviated from DM feel for you. And of course it would be away from the RTC engine. At least we have a few days to rack our brains for the obvious dungeons we are forgetting to recommend!
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

@ Beowuuf

Unfortunately i dont think i'll be able to play Grimrock.My lap top only has 2GB Ram,and i believe you need 4GB for the game to work.
I am considering buying one of those Gaming PC's at some point this year.

Which could be a disaster given the fact i know ZERO about computers. :) :lol:
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
beowuuf
Archmastiff
Posts: 20687
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 2:00 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by beowuuf »

Actually, the minmum specs are dual core 2GHz processor, 2GB RAM, Radeon X1600 or GeForce 7600. I had to turn off all the options because my graphics card fan is going, and the game has looked and run perfectly well. I know gambit said he got a little bit of lag at the very end, but I didn't see that (though I do have 4Gb RAM, so the end might be an issue...)
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Gambit37 »

I have 8GB RAM, a dual-core 3.1GHz CPU and a Radeon 6870 GPU (which is not too shabby!) so it shouldn't have been laggy. The GPU went from around 60 degrees idling to 75 degrees when playing LoG, the fans did ramp up a bit, but nothing too stressful ;-)

I do recall after I was playing laggy LoG, I fired up PhotoShop and nothing happened -- and I discovered that there was a previous crashed version of PhotoShop idling away in a broken process, sucking up something like 4GB of ram and quite a bit of CPU resources. So yeah, it may have been that causing the lag issue.. *cough* ;-) :oops:
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

lord soth 75 wrote:I get the impression (though i could be wrong) that this game could be completed quite quickly if one knew the various short cuts,and which pits were useful to the partys progression.
Yes, you're right. Current records for "speedruns" in DM are around 30 minutes but for CSB it's only around 10 minutes (and a significant portion of this time is spent on "scaring" those four mummies on the pressure plates)! Also note that there's a "minimum picking" competition for CSB where the record - if I'm not mistaken - is winning the game with only eight items picked up (torches from sconces are not counted and a chest with more items is counted as one item)! Amazing!

You can watch all those and many other recordings of DM and CSB playthroughs as "videos" for CSBWin (links are elsewhere on these forums).
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

@ Jan

10 MINUTES?????!!! WHAT??
How is it possible to finish this game in 10 minutes?

It takes about 5 mins to kill the Dragon for the Solid key
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Gambit37 »

Well, it's not yet been proved possible to do it in 10 minutes. The quickest is about 13 minutes, due to misleading timing issues with game recordings ;-) :D :P
For an explanation, read this thread: http://dungeon-master.com/forum/viewtop ... 27&t=22508
And this post in that thread: http://dungeon-master.com/forum/viewtop ... 8&p=130386
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

Gambit37 wrote:Well, it's not yet been proved possible to do it in 10 minutes. The quickest is about 13 minutes, due to misleading timing issues with game recordings ;-) :D :P
For an explanation, read this thread: http://dungeon-master.com/forum/viewtop ... 27&t=22508
And this post in that thread: http://dungeon-master.com/forum/viewtop ... 8&p=130386

Im sorry,but i don't believe anybody can complete this game in 13 minutes or whatever. :o
Youtube allows video's of up to 30 minutes duration these days,so if anyone had completed this game in that amount of time,the evidence would be there for all to see in real time.
13 MINS to complete this nightmare of a game?????

I'll believe it when i see it.

In the space of a month i have sunk around 60+ hours into CSB....and thats with help from you guys providing hints and tips.

You DM veterans need to create a youtube channel,and upload playthroughs/speed plays ect. Would be a cool channel
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Gambit37 »

User avatar
Paul Stevens
CSBwin Guru
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Paul Stevens »

It takes about 5 mins to kill the Dragon for the Solid key
No need to kill the Dragon. This is CSB. There is always
another way.

If you want to kill the Dragon, you can do it in seconds.
This is CSB. There is always another way.

The 10 Minute game has been posted since 2005. I
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/MovieCSB910.zip

Go watch it. Seeing is believing. The major trick is to
avoid the monsters rather than kill them.
User avatar
raixel
The Dungeon Master Cylinder
Posts: 1200
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:10 am
Location: I see Mount Rainier in the distance...

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by raixel »

Jan wrote:You can also hear that a dying monster drops a key. You know:

KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM!!! *clink* KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM! KA-BOOM!!!

:roll:
Holy crap! That made me LMAO!

Btw, keep it up LS, I love reading your updates and peoplle's responses! (Ive never beat CSB, either, so this is really great to read)
User avatar
Jan
Mighty Pirate
Posts: 2760
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Scumm Bar, Czech Republic

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Jan »

raixel wrote:Ive never beat CSB
I think you've got a homework now. :roll:
Paul Stevens wrote:If you want to kill the Dragon, you can do it in seconds.
How? :?: (
Spoiler
falling through a pit on him
?)

And, well, these 10 or 13 or whatever minutes long records have un-human speed, so for normal humans something like 15 to 20 minutes sounds reasonable.
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
User avatar
lord soth 75
Adept
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:31 am
Location: England

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by lord soth 75 »

Wandering around Level 1

Adventure Log#28

I'v backtracked from the area full of demons,and have spent an hour or so wandering around this level.
Found an area with a wooden door,with even more demons beyond it.
Haven't found the secret passageway yet.

What is the deal with the coin slots in the walls? Iv noticed them all over the place,do the coin slots open up the secret area im looking for?

Nothing more to report really.I still keep falling down the invisible pits,but its not too bad because the pits are 1 level beneath,and the stairs lead straight back up to level 1.

Before saving my game..i tried yet another kamikaze attack on the mass of demons.Used all of my magic boxes and hoped to get lucky by managing to kill one of them that holds the master key.No luck. Same as before.I run out of magic boxes,and mana. I cant find the key carrying demon.

Very tough level.
Romero and Carmack NEED to re-group.Modern gaming needs to be saved from the greedy bastards who are ruining it all.
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Playing CSB for the first time-Will need advice

Post by Gambit37 »

The keys and coin slots on this level turn on the "weapon" that I mentioned earlier.
Spoiler
It's a fireball shooter that you re-direct through various blue-haze spinners so that the fireballs go into the heart of the demon's lair...
Post Reply