The List: Best RPG

Got a favourite DM type game? Enjoy Eye of the Beholder? Adore Amberstar? Cherish Captive? Discuss these and more here!
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beowuuf
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by beowuuf »

oh_brother wrote:Lol, that would be great!

Must have been confusing, especially since Gleeko and I have very different opinions on RPGs, and just DM/CSB in common on our list.
http://www.dmjump.net/gothmog.jpg for whoever wants it.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Sophia »

(Now they'll both change to the reversed one)
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by oh_brother »

I got it! Mine!

Rasmus wrote: So might & Magic 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, was the greatest RPG games (for me) right after dm ;)
Hmmm...now I want to try them. The games I missed out on because I did not have an Amiga or a PC.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by glecko »

1. I'll get a new avatar .
2. I'll get M & M VI next.
3. I'll looked into the new ultima IV. I knew about ultima V being developed by Lazurus, but I could not get it to work on my Setup.
I have a Mac Pro 8 core running parallel desktops and XP SP2 for pc stuff. I use dosbox for some stuff. The video card is the source of my incompatability problems. The exult Ultima IV project is the one I have played and recommend. It is not bug free.
4. An RPG is a game that you play in the pole of another person or party.
My primary interest is to find any game that is captivating, addictive, Challenging in some way, Immersive, And continually FUN !! That is a loose version of my criteria, but not the end of my description.
5. Allendale, Thanks for Phantasie. I had forgotten them. I enjoyed them (3 i believe , was my favorite) . Tier #2 . I enjoyed DM Java. I would love to see you do another dungeon!
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Ameena »

Just so you know, MMVI will run fin in Windows - at least, it does on mine (Vista). I had no problems with it at all :).
If you want any info/tips or bug exploits or whatever, let me know twisted. I haven't played it for a while, but I'm pretty sure I've played the bloody thing enough times I know the ins and outs of it pretty well ;). There's even a saved game editor where you can alter character stats/skills/equipment, etc - since I've played it through "properly" at least once, and also multiple times by utilising the various bugs, I'm not too fussed these days about saving the game right after I start it and altering everyone so they each have a copy of the best weapon type in the game (of which there are four anyway), and the skill to use it ;). I'm less fussed about cheating if I've already finished the game once by the normal means - that way I know I can do it, but I just like to have a mess about by uberifying myself and having fun blowing up crappy goblins from Day One ;).
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by babebridou »

Sometimes I really wish there was a generic port of oldies using the world of warcraft UI. And I really mean "User Interface", as in action bars, health pools that you can drag around to monitor entire armies or parties, as many meters as the player wants, keyboard shortcuts that you can configure and put wherever you want, I couldn't care less about the 3d engine or whatever, just give me that powerful UI engine and apply it to those great games of the past.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Hajo »

Gambit37 wrote:I *am* being a little pedantic ;-) I think we mostly understand RPG to mean a game where there is some sort of character progression and where you have some kind of input into how the character grows.
The question of what is a RPG was discussed ion so many places, but so far no one really made a good definition that found general agreement. I think the point given above, character development, is very important to the RPG idea, but even that can be argued.

DM is interesting in this regard, because actually the role of the player is not someone in the party, but some "spiritual" force who motivates them. But if we generalize this idea and call such games RPGs, Populous suddenly would become an RPG too :shock:

I think the only way is to have a fairly lenient interpretation of RPG, everything else just leads to arguments. The roguelike community solved a similar problem ("What is a roguelike?") by listing about 20 factors, which are weighted, and use those as a scale - so a game can be 57% roguelike :P

http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/

In this way, "Character development" could bo one of the factors that makes an RPG, with a good weight for the final score, but even absence of it would allow a game to be called an RPG if other factors contribute enough.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by zoom »

I am pretty sure, given optimal presettings, dm could be loved and played by hundreds of tousands.
optimal settings would mean on each phone there is on the planet with a touch screen UI or something.

interesting :rogue-likeness ;) how much rogue-alike is dm??

---
Monkey Island: that is clearly an Adventure.
Populous was some sort of Strategy game , a Real strategy game though rather special.
I would not call both RPG. World of Warcraft is for some no real RPG. Maybe it it the constant button pressing... it feels different. I guess you either love it or hate it. The costumizable UI is powerful and cool it seems.

For me, a RPG is combining chance of success and progression with a storyline.
chance of success: to get or find better Weapons and stuff, differing hit probability, choice of action to reach a certain goal
progression of characters, e.g. skill point distribution or equipment choice. Different roles to chose from(fighter , thief, mage etc.). Maybe a party, also or at least NPC´s , players or pets, something who can join.
storyline. mostly fantasy, but often you set out on a journey and come back home in the end, departure and return, like in fairy tales. which reminds me:
The faery tale adventure part one was really cool! Super setting. Dark Knight, Witch, Golden Swan, Islands, Some weapon choice. Fights, some dialogues. Different Quests(rescue Princess) and a real rich world(swamp, rocky mountains, plains forest again Islands) Different modes of locomotion.

A game that had very few rpg elements in it, but nevertheless cool was Rings of Medusa.
You were playing a prince that was pitted against a demon goddess. She took over your father´s kingdom by force - what else?- you could escape but she has now supremacy over the land.
In consequence you start with very little, but you have a caravan with which you can trade between cities.
Ultimately you must find several magic rings and amass an army(consisting of various creatures, like giants, orcs etc)to battle medusa in a cataclyptic end fight.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Parallax »

glecko wrote: 4 Moebius
Hahaha. I can't believe someone else spent enough time on that game to remember it after all these years. However, a quick google search confirmed what I suspected: You and me only, bro, you and me only... :)
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by alandale »

glecko wrote:Thanks for Phantasie. I had forgotten them. I enjoyed them (3 i believe , was my favorite) . Tier #2 .
Phantasie was a lot of fun. Here's a recent article from CRPG addict about the first one. There are a few followup articles too. Makes me want to play it again.
http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2010/04/ ... tasie.html
glecko wrote:I enjoyed DM Java. I would love to see you do another dungeon!
Glad to hear you enjoyed DM Java. It doesn't seem to get much mention around here anymore. While I did recently update it a little to get it working better on modern computers (and a nice scale factor for larger monitors), I don't plan on making any more dungeons for it myself. I'm too busy working on something else...
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by beowuuf »

Awww, we do keep pushing it as an alternative! Hopefully now the new excecuteables are available, some custom dungeons might be created. IT's a shame broken paladin disappeared, it did sound like he was creatingthe equivalent of conflux on DMJava
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by zoom »

Alandale wrote:I'm too busy working on something else...
dm-related stuff ?
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by alandale »

zoom wrote:dm-related stuff ?
Yes
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Jgames »

@glecko
There are thousands of games, but only a handfull that are Addictive, Immersive and Compelling.
First, there is the best game ever, it's Ultima Underworld. If you never played it, then you know what to do :)
I used to play a lot of games in the end 80's throught mid 90's, then the games i used to like are no longer released. But thankfully, a few great RPG games appeared, i'll retrace them here by i think correct chronological order:
Ultima Ascension (greatest immersion ever in a game, and 100% best RPG MUSIC and GRAPHICS you'll ever see, it's like traveling on a dream universe)
Deux EX (Story, and cyberpunk settings, unmissable game)
Gothic 1 and 2 (RPG gems, and among other things first great pathfinding AI i ever saw )
Vampire Bloodlines (What a surprise was this game for me, best dialogue, and best story in any game i ever played)
In rank order i will place

1) Ultima Ascension
2) Vampire Bloodlines
3) Deux EX
4) Gothic 2
5) Gothic 1

That's all, those games are what i played and finsihed from 1995-2010, this is sad.
Forgot to mention another game i finished, Mass Effect, but it's not a great game.

Now for the period that was great 1985-1995 (greatest gaming period)
For RPG's i played and finished these (All are great games) in chronological order
-Dungeon Master
-Eye of the beholder II
-Ultima underworld I and II (i liked the I much more)
-Lands of lore

Ranking:
1)Ultima underworld I
2)Dungeon Master
3)Lands of lore
4)Eye of the beholder II
5)Ultima underworld II

All time best ranking (for me)
1)Ultima underworld I
2)Dungeon Master
3) Ultima Ascension
4) Vampire Bloodlines
5) Deux EX
6) Gothic 2
7)Lands of lore
8)Eye of the beholder II
9) Gothic 1
10) Ultima underworld II
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Zed5Duke »

X-Com
well you have statistic so its rpg-strategy
ufo1 -this is best of the best all time
ufo2 -too big missions and very easy to stuck in research, never finished
and many other from serie but dont worth play

sci-fi
Gorky17 -once finished it and still remember as one from best, each battle require lot of thinking and dark atmosphere
Perihelion -i like it because tactic battles and atmosphere, finished it probably 3 or more time
Hired Guns -one from favoutites
System Shock2 -i think it should be made exacly like thief, then could be best game of all time, but its just interesting in few moments
Captive - i tryed if few time but still cant catch what is going on
Fallouts -worth play

dungeons:
Black Crypt -best atmosphere, but cant finish without solution, too much triggers
BTW Raven Software made also Hexen2, the same cool dark atomsphere, i think its almost kind of rpg, dont played because version i have often crash
Dungeon Master -because its classic
Lands of lore -good graphic
Stonekeep -even better gfx, i was around end and stuck, still like it

open landscape
Ishar 1 and 2 it was first rpgs i played so always favourite
Might and Magic, finished 4-8 part, this is probably best, very addictive
Legacy (by Redshift) addictive, but i got only demo

ultima style
played uUnderworld and U9 i like them but dont finished
BTW i hear that ultima 1-5 have dungeons but i dont found them
in System Shock2 was minigame Overworld Zero which remind me ultima, and its only one kind of ultima i finished

avernum style
i dont finished any from avernum but there is similar in style called Aaron Dungeon Odyssey, very simple game but somehow finished it

roguelike
played few in graphic interface but they bored me

hack&slash
Diablo1 -it was time when it was my number one, now its not
also tryed many other similar games, but they was not good

baldurs gate style
from these i like only Icewind Dale and ofcourse Planescape Torment

final fantasy
from all rpgs this is probably one which i dont play, and i dont want, japanese have weird style of rpgs :p
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Re: The List: Best RPG

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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by saros »

My, my. Sorry for the late answer, newly registered here. Well, let's see...favourite RPG? I have to put several under number one:

1. Betrayal at Krondor - what, really, NO ONE LIKES this game as much as even mentioning it in top 10? It's top 1 and always will be. Riddles, combat, spells, a great big world to explore, not to mention the great storyline, which unlike a Raymond Feist book, has actually a plot, which twists and turns during the entire story, and even the final opponent isn't considered to be evil in the end, simply a good (in his own way), yet misguided one.

2. Star Control 2. Yes, it is a RPG. Collecting resources, gathering information and artifacts, combat tactics, etc. Plus, it was the only one game with awfully good sounds from the now forgotten PC speaker.

3. Eye of the Beholder 2: The Legend of Darkmoon
3. Dungeon Master 2: The Legend of Skullkeep

Two equally great games, with different strengths in design. EOB2 also has a great plot. And good starting music and intro too.

4. Lands of Lore

5. Might and Magic 4&5 - although I'd say the best one is actually Darkside of Xeen

6. Might and Magic 6 - the hardest IMHO from all M&M games, and the first one with the new 3d vision. Far better than the following 7, 8 or 9 sequels.

7. UFO - Enemy Unknown. A great game, seventh place because I'm not really convinced it is truly a RPG. It's rather a turn-based strategy.

8. Baldur's Gate 1+Shadows of Amn+Throne of Bhaal. Drawback - lame story.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Erik Bauer »

Well, let's see...

1 )Dungeon Master/CSB - They have been surpassed by now on most aspects, but they still have a reserved place in my heart.
2 )The Witcher
3 )Baldur's Gate
4 )A.D.O.M. - This is a freeware RogueLike whose playability is just, well... beyond.
5 )Baldur's Gate II - More complete than the first, but I found it more dispersive past half game
6 )Amberstar / Ambermoon
7 )Black Crypt
8 )Icewind Dale I / Icewind Dale II - Hack&Slash meets Baldur's Gate!
9 )I.V.A.N. - Another roguelike
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by oh_brother »

saros wrote:1. Betrayal at Krondor.
Just looked it up. Dammit, another game that goes into my ever-growing "must play" list.
saros wrote: 7. UFO - Enemy Unknown. A great game, seventh place because I'm not really convinced it is truly a RPG. It's rather a turn-based strategy.
Fantastic game, I loved it on my Playstation (would not have considered it an rpg though). The only drawback I found was that when I had a really advanced team after playing for aaaagggeeess my brother wiped my memory card by accident. I could not go back to average joes with rifles after I had had a heavily armoured, plasma gun wielding, jet-pack carrying psionic super-soldier team.
saros wrote: 8. Baldur's Gate 1+Shadows of Amn+Throne of Bhaal. Drawback - lame story.
Heresy. I thought the story was unparalleled.
Erik Bauer wrote:2 )The Witcher
Another one for my "must play" list.

Since I wrote my first post in this thread I would add Dragon Age:Origins to the list. Not up there with DM/CSB/BG2 but still a top game.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Gambit37 »

@Saros: Not sure we can continue to let you post here -- you put DM2 in there, and no original DM? Sacrilege! ;-)
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Bit »

i just took a look a Betrayal of Krondor and spotted - I missed that one. Not grid based anymore - very interesting.
It's free downloadable now (i.e. here: http://www.chip.de/downloads/Betrayal-o ... 94826.html) and runs without problems (yet) in DOSbox.
Also found a link to a DOS-Bloodwych, also running fine in DOSbox: http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/bloodwych/download/274/
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by saros »

Gambit37 wrote:@Saros: Not sure we can continue to let you post here -- you put DM2 in there, and no original DM? Sacrilege! ;-)
Sadly, yes. I haven't had much experience with the original Dungeon Master, since it came in my possession long after I had completed DM2 for the hundreth time. Sorry, but after playing the far better(gameplay, graphics and music at least) sequel, one cannot really appreciate the old version. It's even this way with Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2 (second part is far better), although the EOB parts are linked and allow transfer of the entire party.

As for BG2 and ToB, I still play those, but purely because of tactical challenge, whereas each time I play Betrayal of Krondor, I do it mostly for the great story and plot.

If I had to add more games to the list, that would be undoubtedly Ultima Underworld 2: The Labyrinth of Worlds. Far better made in all aspects compared to UW1: The Stygian Abyss.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Ameena »

Lol what do you mean DM2 has better music? The original DM didn't have any so that's not really fair is it ;). But it is a fun game, all the extra little mechanics like Minions and shops and stuff. When I say "Minions", I mean the nice Minions, who make stuff like selling tons of axes so much easier. The green Attack Minions that Dragoth sends after you can just bloody well sod off ;).
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by beowuuf »

Actually, the PC DM had music at the door! So weird to hear it on my old ssystem when playing under pure DOS!
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Jan »

This DM PC "music" was quite enjoyable even with the PC squeaker (I mean when compared with the other PC squeaker "music" that was usually just a succession of crazy... squeaks... :roll: ).
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by oh_brother »

I just finished playing Mass Effect 2, and dammit Bioware have done it again. They hooked me with addictive gameplay and a typically-bioware set of great characters! Another game that goes into my classic, cherished RPG list (DM,CSB, BG I+II+expansions, NWN, DAO).

Don't know if anyone here has played it but it was a blast. The shooting was really well done, a huge improvement on the entertaining though not great Mass Effect 1. I have not played many cover-based shooters so I don't have much of a frame of reference, but to me the fights were really fun.

Graphics were great (even though in theory my laptop did not meet minimum specs. I could still play the game on high settings with no lag). The worlds and cities were impressive and really atmospheric.

Downsides were the main storyline felt a bit rushed, and the end boss looked surprisingly naff.

The other downside that a lot of people complained about is related to a question made by Gambit on the first page of this thread. The inventory system was essentially removed, and options at level-up were quite limited. Interestingly people said that these changes meant that it wasn't a real rpg, i.e. inventory/level up seem to be the consensus on what makes an rpg, rather than a story, characters and the ability to play in a role!
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by PaulH »

Bane of the Cosmic Forge (Wizardry six). Look beyond the graphics and you have a game of immense depth that can be replayed many times.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Joramun »

0- DM&CSB
1- Fallout
2- Fallout 2
3- Planescape Torment
4- Daggerfall
5- Morrowind
6- Arx Fatalis
7- Oblivion
The "Ishar" games were worth a play, but very, very hard.
I have a large list of other old DOS RPG who looks like a lot of fun, but sadly the old gameplay is really hard to overcome to test them.
This is where DM is brilliant: the gameplay is still "state of the art", much better than that of Black Crypt e.g.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by raixel »

Holy crap, Joramun. Your list almost matches mine.

1. Fallout 2
2.Fallout
3. DM/CSB
4.Morrowind
5. Betrayal at Krondor
6. Wizardry 7
7. Wizardry 6
8. Planescape, Torment
9. DA:O
10. BG2
Note, this list is in no particular order. I don't like Fallout better than DM. I would be hard pressed to put these in any sort of order cuz they are all radically different.
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Re: The List: Best RPG

Post by Seriously Unserious »

I know I'm coming into this discussion rather late, but that's due to that this thread ran mostly during my very long hiatus from this forum :P

the 10 rpg's I most enjoyed are:

1- DM/CSB -- I still love the game mechanics and these games really revolutionized RPG's
2- Bane of the Cosmic Forge -- the vast options for party members, from vastly different races to widely varied classes, combined with good gameplay and a good storyline make this game very addictive.
3- D+D: champions of krynn/death knights of krynn - love the storyline and love dragonlance in general so can't go wrong here
4- Dungeon Lords -- One of the few truly modern RPG's that I like, designed by the same developer as the Wizardry series and has a nice storyline and good graphics.
5- EOB1,2: Very similar to DM in many ways IMO, so it definitely belongs on this list. I loved the storyline and the ability to have up to 2 NPC's join and leave the party, this adds an excellent element to the game that DM was lacking in, and creates great immersion into the game. The D+D spell system didn't lend itself well to a real-time RPG though, and that caused this game to suffer a bit, but still more then worthy of a spot in my top 5.
6- DM2: I love some of the innovations to the DM engine like the new wallsets and adding in shops and an economy to the game. the one thing I don't like are all those annoying, re-spawning enemy minions.
7- The Tiamat Sacrament -- A free RPG make on the RPG Maker engine, has a similar style to SNES style rpg's but has a tremendous storyline, especially considering that it's a freeware game made by a single developer without a team of developers.
8- Omega -- a fun rogue-like game I played on my Amiga for hours on end, good game considering it was public domain...
9- Dragon Wars -- I haven't played this game in ages but I remember it was a challenging game and had a great story and many great features.
10- Breath of Fire -- Never was able to finish this game, but that was mainly due to a hardware failure while I was still in the middle of it. I do Intend to play this game again sometime. It is a good SNES Japanese-style RPG.

Some other RPG's that I've enjoyed but didn't make the list are Fable 2, Dungeon Siege, Moria, Legionwood: A Tale of 2 Swords, The Fairy Tale Adventure and Battletech: The Cresent Hawks Inception. There are probably others that I don't remember at this time and if so I'll post them as well.
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