Advanced Editing using move.

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Chaos-Shaman
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Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Been trying to figure out how to MOVE TILE (items) TO OBJECT LOCATION. There are objects on a tile that I'd like to be moved to an object location. The object location is a trigger. MOVE PARTY TO OBJECT LOCATION works just fine, but how can the objects on the same tile be moved with it. Can't use pick up all items because it will generate an error if the party was full. There seems to be an error given when the party is full, it is possible it has something to do with the pouch, noted that when a mirror character was completely full, hire the character and I think two items went missing.

Does anyone know how to move items off a tile to an object location without a teleporter? does this feature work?
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Saumun
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

Why don't you want to use a teleporter?
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Yeah, if life were that easy Saumun I would. Here's why, in order to teleport the party to the Merchant Dealer who uses the magic table to do trade (which graphics are not done for it yet). When the party exits that area the floor items will remain behind, a teleporter wont work because it won't know where the marker was placed when the party activated the npc for trade. So it is easy to teleport the party back to the marker, the items will remain there unless the party picks them up. Now if the objects can be teleported like the party it would fix that problem with that npc trade method, otherwise I'll have to make it so the party can't exit that area without making sure all objects are off the floor and this is not as desirable to do. The only reason for this is to prevent players from using it as a storage depot.

Please tell me it can be done.
I've not heard from you in a while to get a chance to ask you what you thought of Mr Finklestein method of trade so I am not sure if you know what the situation is.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

Ah.. I think i see. You're not moving them to the same place every time? The marker could be in different places, yes?

Just set up a quick test and "ACTION_MOVE_ITEM_TO_OBJECT_LOCATION" seemed to work fine.
Made two rooms... One with a cloned pressure pad in it, and the other with a trigger.
Trigger set up for "OBJECT" in OpBys - "On trigger only", and targetted an action with MOVE_ITEM_TO_OBJECT_LOCATION as the action, and Object 1 set as the cloned pad.
Scattered a few different objects and put them all on the trigger. All were sent to the pad.

Is there something more to it, or have you done the same thing but it didn't work?
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

I'll try this tonight, it looks to me the trigger has to be used, can't use a wall switch. Does it have to be a trigger?

I was using the exit button to hit the action MOVE ITEM TO OBJECT LOCATION, but I'll test the trigger idea, maybe the button activating a trigger will work, let you know.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

How big is the area? You could place inactive triggers on the floor, and then have a switch either toggle them... or flick the triggers on and off quickly through a couple of relays.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

"How big is the area?", it's the entire dungeon, so triggers all over it is not an option. I could not get it to work. I tried making a trigger that activates by an object, no luck, still messing with it, going to mess with it again and see.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

Hmmm... Floor trigger targetting ACTION_MOVE_ITEM_TO_OBJECT_LOCATION activated by an object worked fine when i tried it, but if floor triggers are out of the equation i don't see how it could be done.

Unless i'm missing something here... are you looking to potentially move any object, anywhere in the dungeon to one location?
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Got it working, was using the wrong action, was trying to use MOVE TILE TO OBJECT LOCATION, which I thought it was moving all the contents of the tile to the location, not even sure what it does. Changed it to MOVE ITEM TO OBJECT LOCATION and it worked no problems, so the party and the floor items move to the same area to the trigger marker. It solves an important issue using a live npc trader screen. It works by teleporting to an area and then teleporting back to where the choice of trade was done. A sneaky way to get a screen with as many buttons the programmer wants, info screens have a limit of 7 but can change between screens, if you had a chance to test out the test dungeon you'd see three different methods of doing trade with npcs, still do not know which one is best yet. Happy to be able to move items. So it might be possible to move items like a chest to the party and swap out the locked chest to nothing, it's making the cog wheels turn again :)

Thanks Saumun for your help, it was an error on my part, just don't know RTCeditor enough, lots to learn still.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

No reason why you shouldn't be able to do the chest thing.
One thing i did find out a couple of weeks ago (and you may already be aware of this), is that you cannot swap anything that is inside a chest (or any other container). I only noticed because the stuff that needed swapping just happened to be in a chest when i stepped on the swap trigger... and nothing happened.
Only a minor inconvenience at the time, because i was able to work around it... but it cost me extra wall objects and relays to do it (which as things stand - being close to the object limit - is a bit annoying).
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

"One thing i did find out a couple of weeks ago (and you may already be aware of this), is that you cannot swap anything that is inside a chest (or any other container). I only noticed because the stuff that needed swapping just happened to be in a chest when i stepped on the swap trigger... and nothing happened."

Yes, I know of this and it is disturbing, so avoid doing a swap global on items, also don't put anything in a chest, if you try and delete a chest with items in it, it also will error, so chests I do not screw around with, not until a dungeon is nearly complete, not worth the hassle, just wait until the end to do it.

I do have a question about object limit, does the 20000 objects include only what is added to the dungeon or does it also count the in game objects, in other words do the objects count if they are not placed into the dungeon? There is a limit of how many attacks can be created. Not sure of other limits.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

I've never had a problem deleting chests containing stuff, but i've had the identifier error when deleting items from within a chest.

As far as the object limit goes... Yes, all objects count. Even those created in-game. When i first hit this problem, i did some testing. One was to start the dungeon right on the limit and then have a trigger target a monster generator which created some scorpions. This crashed the dungeon.

One good thing i found out though, was that stuff carried by monsters or knights armour and such is also automatically added to the overall count. This is a good thing, as it does not add anything to the count when the monster is killed. So if you was on the limit, and say killed a knight.... the dropped armour/swords would not affect it, as they've already been accounted for. It could also be seen as a bad thing because a Deth Knight counts as seven objects (four pieces of armour, two swords, and the monster itself). So even if you don't kill it, because it has the potential to drop six objects it is part of the count.

So in summary... creating stuff in-game CAN cause the crash, but stuff carried by monsters (or considered part of it's body... eg. armour, weapons, food) WILL NOT.

I found this out when i was right on the limit... I deleted six skeletons from the dungeon, but found that eighteen objects had been wiped off the count (as it included their swords and shields as part of the overall count).
This is why in my new dungeon, Skeletons and Trolins and such don't drop anything when killed. It was necessary to keep the overall object count down.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

That's good to know, so that would mean that if food was created and then eaten that it would make no difference in the count. So that would give an option, instead of the monster dying with food, on its death food can be created instead of carrying it which would affect the overall count when starting the game. This is a great option, death turns to food and not smoke, or death to relay create food(s) that rots into ash then disappear. All non essential items should eventually disappear, mostly food, food can be bought as well. Money has been solved by using a bank to deposit the coins and gems, and relays to check its value, decrement, increment the bank counter, it's real easy. If it were not for the limitations RTC engine would soar, I am stunned by how much can be done with it. Now if the count of food objects is checked it can prevent players from trying to buy or hoard too much food which would be a problem. So if a counter is hit for every morsel of food created, then can be checked to make sure there is not too much food, that would be cool. Is it possible to have a counter that checks the entire dungeon count of everything? If so then this would certainly solve any object count problem such as too much food. My plan is to make everything have value and money is a big part, the party will need it always.

So if monsters have a sword and shield, to create them is better than to have them carry it provided that they rust out to nothing (common items only), so the player must sell their belongings before that happens which would keep the object count down because the money is banked. So a sword will be more valuable then a rusted one, and a rusted one will turn to ash which is worthless which would turn into nothing. Makes sense to me.

What about the zokathra spell, I am assuming that if that spell is cast too many times it would crash the dungeon, then it must have a counter on it or the spell must be replaced, can solve that if it is set up to delete all zokathra before creating another. Yeah, that's how to stop that from happening. Same applies to anything that might build up. Even food can be banked, food bank lol, hmmm that's not a bad idea.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

Indeed.
Anything that is created in-game can be made to crash it if someone is sufficiently determined (providing the thing can be repeatedly created faster than it expires).
For this reason, it is not a good idea to have the object count even close to the limit. In the case of my dungeon, it is close... but it's a long while before you get to anything that can be created (and nothing can be repeatedly created before something else expires) that hundreds of things have been destroyed or consumed.
A player would have to be deliberately trying to crash it for it to happen in this case.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

"A player would have to be deliberately trying to crash it for it to happen in this case."

Is there a way to check the count during the game? If this can be done it would be interesting, certainly can give a warning, just to see the number in action would be fun.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Saumun »

That is an interesting idea... and i imagine it must be possible. Might be difficult to put into practice though, or maybe not. I've never really thought about it.

I suppose if you did a manual count to begin with, and then was careful to run anything that is destroyed or created through a separate sequence with counter increment/decrement actions, you could take care of many things. Anything set to expire, give an additional "activate" action to the same increment/decrement setup. Same with anything consumed. Not sure how you'd be able to deduct monster kills though. Making triggers that are operated by monster death clouds works, but it would be unfeasible to have one on every tile (unless you tightly controlled where monsters could go).

I might give this some thought.
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Re: Advanced Editing using move.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

I think you have already slam thunked it just as you said. It would mean a lot of targeting to that counter, mostly it is food. I guess if the static number is given at the beginning as you say, death would decrement, expire would decrement, eat would as well. Easier just to expire non essential items, it sure would be nice to know that count though.

Please give it some more thought. Make the tools and they will come...
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