Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

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Ultramarine
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Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Hello fellow developers, hello DM-supporters!
I want to build a team of people spread all over the globe, working on a Dungeon Master successor.
Coders (DirectX), artists (2D/3D) and game designers are invited to be part of a new team working together to develop the game.

I'm thinking about picking up the concept of dungeon master and adapt and further develop it to the quality of current games.
So if you love DM and truly want to be part of a team, please post your occupation. Also, if you know coders, artists or game-designers who like DM, please let them know about this project.

Currently open positions:

- Lead programmer (DirectX)
- Physics programmer (PhysX)
- Level Editor programmer
- Creature/Character artist (modeling, animation, texturing)
- Environments artist (modeling, texturing)
- Game designer (Story, Levels)
- Music composer / Sound F/X

Feel free to reply or write to ultramarine@gmx.de

Best regards.
Last edited by Ultramarine on Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by DSE »

Good luck my friend. When you have a website and a demo, make sure you post up on here :O)

Good luck an happy coding !!
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Sure DSE :wink: This is day 1 of the project so don't expect too much soon. First of all, a team has to be formed.

I've done a quick fireball-test:

http://www.grimwood-group.com/preview/videos/

I will continue working on the concepts and test-shots to collect enough material to make this project more attractive.

Best Regards,
Ultramarine
Last edited by Ultramarine on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Sophia »

Are you using any sort of 3D engine? One thing that helped me a lot when writing DSB is that basically every major task is being done by middleware. (Allegro, FMOD, Lua, Zlib, etc.) You've partially done this with PhysX but I think that you could potentially be wasting a lot of time trying to do everything in pure Direct3D (if I understand your "lead programmer" description correctly) when there are very good 3D middleware engines out there. Ogre 3D, Irrlicht, or Dark GDK come to mind, and I'm sure there are more. They handle model loading, texture management, culling, and whatnot all automatically, so you more or less can just plop models into place and worry about high-level issues.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Sophia,
Looking for a good middleware 3d engine with a profound framework is certainly something one should look into.
I'm not a programmer per se, so the selection of the engine would be a task for the programmer.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Sophia »

Oh, I thought you were essentially taking the roles that weren't filled (which you may have to do anyway)-- what is going to be your main job in this?
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

I'm a 2D/3D artist and do modeling, texturing, animating and planning the project.
I also have programming experience in C, maxscript and actionscript but I'm specialized in 3d graphics.
I come from a motion graphics background (worked on some movies).

Originally I had formed a small team with a friend of mine (programmer) to create a moonstone sequel but the project was too large for 2 people.
Now I'm probing the possibilities to form a bigger team with people all over the globe for this project.

Sophia, do you have experience in programming?
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Sophia »

Ultramarine wrote:Sophia, do you have experience in programming?
Yes, mostly in C/C++, though I also am a fan of Lua, Perl, and I've managed to teach myself a bit of PHP.

My project is DSB, a 2D (traditional style) DM remake.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Sophia: DSB is nice, I just played it. Is your project still developing?
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Sophia »

It is. I just released the new version a couple of days ago, in fact. :D
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

updated dev-page:

new effect: magic spell
http://www.grimwood-group.com/preview/videos/

You'll find a detailed description of the project at:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums ... _id=527907
Last edited by Ultramarine on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ultramarine
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Sophia wrote:It is. I just released the new version a couple of days ago, in fact. :D
cool, I love active developers. Keep on!
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Bit »

However, you should take the advices of the long-time members of this community, I think they deserve a kind of a veto. (see what happened to the LotR-movie, where the fan-community did send members!)

If I had the time and the knowledge of modern libraries, I gladly would support you - so I just can offer to reread sources, maybe point on problems and help with debugging, but that's it.

I saw hundred of projects starting with the same kind of engagement - not much survived... good luck!
Will be not easy to find the right mix of people who really have the necessary skills (and humor - that's important!). I am member of a german programmer's forum - 30646 people registered - guess how much I would suggest - probably not five...
In a team that cannot be paid from the beginning, the real life issues of the people always endanger the project - and those who ignore that - you may endanger their future...

First graphic-demos look pretty nice - the effect with the opening gate very promising!
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Yes, Bit...

I think this project can only be carried by love and passion for the idea, not the money....and the number of people whose 'life configuration' is compatible with the frame conditions may be not be big, but I'm trying anyway to push this endeavour into a promising future.

DSE would be a cool lead programmer, as his 'Entombed' looks very promising in regard of the quality I'm striving for but eventually he has other plans.

Nevertheless I will continue searching for good coders who can manage this project.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Currently I'm writing a basic story and how the game might unfold. It's not based on dungeon master but based on an own set of ideas. After all this project won't be a clone - dungeon master is just an inspiration.
I'm also still looking for a coder who wants to develop/improve a 3d engine and likes to be part of the team.

Requirements of the engine so far:
- physics
- Stencil shadows
- normal mapped objects
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Bit wrote:However, you should take the advices of the long-time members of this community, I think they deserve a kind of a veto. (see what happened to the LotR-movie, where the fan-community did send members!)
What exactly do you mean, Bit?
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Bit »

That it would guarantee success ;)
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by beowuuf »

Actually, not really Bit!

DSB and Entombed, although starting say from a DM perspective, are other hoping to break those bonds and be very felxible. Any complaining by the core DM group saying 'oh, this should be more faithful to DM here, here ad here, and why are you making ti so flexible, we will never use that for a DM dungeon' would ultimately harm the project.

See the undead zombie game idea as an example!

It's nice to have a supportive community to test he idea out with, but if you don't move beyond those constraints you will stay niche and not really give anything fully new back anyway!
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Jan »

@Ultramarine:

The videos are really really great!

But I have a minor remark: Ceilings (I mean their physical structure) cannot be made of bricks or stones! At least not in the way it looks on the videos! The only way to construct a ceiling / floor of bricks or stones is to use sort of vault or arch - e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_(architecture)
Otherwise, it would just collapse. And personally, I think that arch ceilings made of bricks or stones would look great in your modern DM!
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

You're right Jan. Thanks for the remark!

I have started to implement your idea.
Currently I'm rendering a vault with a rounded ceiling. From what I can say it's giving a less claustrophobic feeling when moving inside the dungeon - it's more friendly. Maybe we'll have both, rounded and flat, depening on the situation.
This is because I want to have really tense moments in the game where the player encounters monsters that scare the shit out of you - and the environment shall support the tension. In certain parts of the game I want the player to have a feeling of panic - this is only supported by a "closed" environment that doesn't have too much movement possibilities and is really "tight". Fleeing will be the only option (if you can at all).

The game will make more use of light and shadow, unlike the original dungeon master. This will add a lot to the atmosphere while exploring the unknown depth of Black Mountain.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Jan »

Another thing is the handle (trigger, switch) on the left wall. It looks a bit too modern and massive to me. I would suggest a smaller one, more rusty, or I would make it of wood (as in the original DM) - because iron (or metals in general) was very scarce and expensive before the Industrial Revolution (although, on the second thought, Lord Chaos was probably a rich man... don't know).

But the rest is really very nice - the textures, the fireballs, everything. :D
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by DSE »

Fireball is very nice. It would be tricky to get into a game engine .... but the pre-rendered stuff is nice. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Thanks Jan & DSE!

As for the Trigger, it isn't really that important to me if it's made of wood or iron (at least from the story/game design point of view). The story plays in the middle-ages but in a fantasy world where the dwarves of Black Mountain created this dungeon 1000 years ago - and they were masters with iron materials. So the usage of iron in the dungeon is really not bound to the lack thereof. There will be no Lord Chaos at all - I want to get away from Dungeon Master as far as possible and implement my own set of ideas/features.
Also, most likely, the magic system must be changed/advance. I thinking of something like moving the mouse in certain shapes after setting up the basic runes to fire a spell.

DSE, I'm not a real programmer but wouldn't it be possible to implement such fireballs as bitmap animation in particle systems in the game? It wouldn't matter if they weren't 3d/voxels. P.S. I can enhance the quality of the fireball a lot (so it looks quite real; this is just a quick test).
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by DSE »

If you are sticking to a traditional 'flick' screen setup then yes you could save the fireball as an animation and play it back on demand. The only difference would be the light that it casts would be lost (could be replaced by some sort of in game lighting, so it wouldnt matter too much), other than that it would look exactly the same. To get it smooth it would be a little costly in texture memory though. Not sure how many frames of animation you have there.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Sophia »

I think that if you rendered it as a particle system, you'd be able to get away with some very nice animation with far fewer frames of animation, because the individual particles wouldn't need to be animated much (if at all)-- you'd just need a few different "wispy" particles. The interaction between them would create the interesting animation effects. Slap each particle on a billboarded quad, use additive blending, and you have yourself a nice looking fireball. :D
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by DSE »

Agreed. There are some nice effects tutorials on-line about fire.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

DSE, we can go high-quality with everything in the game since the environment is closed and there is not much going on. So everything that is in-game could be using the highest quality. It's not like in, for example, a MMORPG where high-quality can become costly due to the sheer amount of objects/data simultaneously on the screen.

As of now I had the idea that the game should run decently (with 60 FPS) on a medium high-end system (3.2 Ghz, Geforce 260 - this is also my development platform) because when the development cycle has ended this configuration is quite mid-/low-end. After all the primary aim is to have the player have an intense and realistic experience rather than maintaining compatibility to older generation hardware.

P.S. I've updated the 'proof of concept' page with the Vault, as Jan suggested.
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

Sophia wrote:I think that if you rendered it as a particle system, you'd be able to get away with some very nice animation with far fewer frames of animation, because the individual particles wouldn't need to be animated much (if at all)-- you'd just need a few different "wispy" particles. The interaction between them would create the interesting animation effects. Slap each particle on a billboarded quad, use additive blending, and you have yourself a nice looking fireball. :D
That would be a possibility, Sophia. Only one thing though, it shouldn't look like multiple alpha-blended billboards that resemble, for example, a fireball. I've critisized this since seeing the smoke grenades in Counterstrike. This is because as soon as the fireball interacts with another object, the illusion is destroyed.
The effect should be nice and voluminetric, like very fine voxels that interact with other objects (eg. engulf a creature).
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by DSE »

You are going to need a very good coder to achieve what you are after with lots of free time *OR* you can purchase an engine that has these features, you might want to look around the web for an api/engine that meets your specific needs. Just for reference, the fire in left 4 dead and killzone 2 are not as good as your fireball "target render".
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Re: Seeking coders, artists for DM-like game project

Post by Ultramarine »

I've just looked at the samples of Ogre3D Engine and must say it supports a lot of features that are required for the project but I'm not experienced enough as a programmer to decide if it's the proper engine. Well, I leave this job to a programmer who can take care of such decisions. As for now, I'm sticking to increasing visual quality in the pre-production work and writing a story & design document.
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