The Magic Healing

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terkio
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by terkio »

:x I do not need your teach / preach about mushrooms.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by cowsmanaut »

I do not recommend any antidepressant to anybody. we already have natural ways to do that. people use drugs as an excuse to why they are screwed up. I hear it all the time, I read it all the time. I won't give them one.
Don't take drugs.. take drugs.. wait.. what?
people don't need drugs to be stupid, they're naturally like that. I have seen plenty of dumb people in my life that DON"T use drugs. drugs are not bad, people are bad. drugs save lives. dumb people take lives. to be quite honest, I see people climbing Mt Everest. this is such a stupid thing to do but they do it. I guess mountains are bad, too, or is it the nut that climbs it. what I ask you cows is, have you seen someone jump from a building on drugs because I only see that in the movies :lol: . I know I have not, but I have seen people do some pretty stupid things not on drugs... especially guys and cars. guns are not bad, the people that use them can be though, and they are not high on anything.
hmm.. let me see. So I mentioned my friend was thrown from a building to her death by a man on drugs who was otherwise unlikely to do such a horrible thing. However, on the drugs he was not clear on the action, who she was or what she was doing, or the results of his actions. I found a man in a tree who had no clue how he got up there or how to get down and he was also doing drugs. My mother had a classmate of hers screeching in the corner at school because he thought he was an orange and people were trying to peel him (sniffing glue). And at a concert she went to, someone on drugs walked into the water of the nearby lake thinking they could breathe underwater.. they couldn't.. they died. Hmm.. nope.. no actual jumpers than I personally saw.. guess that means drugs are safe.. thank you for this education.. :P though there are videos of a Turkish man jumping off a roof, while high on drugs, thinking there was a pool below.. there wasn't.. he died.. but still not trying to fly.. hmm. OH wait.. how about Henry Kwan, 17, took synthetic LSD and stripped naked, and then tried to fly.. of his building.. despite insisting he could fly, he didn't actually manage it. He also died.. should I keep going on? how about they guy who tried to open the plane door mid flight while on drugs?.. or.. ... ok ok.. I'll stop..
I practice shamanism, so I'm interested in what you have to say because I deal with it all the time. these people believe every fear mongering thing they are told. it's a sad world when people pass judgment without even learning about it. those people are stupid, more or less lab rats or sheep being led through a fence into a room to be slaughtered.
You assume ignorance where there is none. I know a great number of people who have done, and still do drugs including mushrooms (some of which are now dead). I have also experimented(many years ago), Not mushrooms, but some other mild drugs. However, due to a genetic defect, I'm less prone to drug reactions than others. A very unfortunate side effect of this is that traditional pain meds usually don't work well and I've learned instead to deal with pain without them. Going to the dentist is absolute torture as the freezing is very limited.. As to any other assumptions about my awareness, beyond my experience, both primary and secondary, I do read a fair bit. I've got a rather direct medical streak in my family with my mother and step mother who have masters, one of which is very much into drug research for non standard cures and treatments. I don't walk into a conversation without a clear reason, and a decent bit of experience and or research to back myself up. As a teacher by trade, I'm unafraid of research, reading, and going deep into things.
until one tries something, they should reframe from being all knowing.
This is easily the stupidest argument I've ever heard in a long time... seriously. We're told that if you leap off a cliff to rocks below, you are highly likely to die. We are told if you drink (insert various poisons here) you will die. We are told that you can not breath in outerspace or under water. I learned in my aircraft course that when a human reaches terminal velocity their clothing is often ripped from them and they suffocate because they can not intake air at that speed. ETC ETC ETC.. I could throw hundreds of thousands of these bit's of info that NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND will 'try' to confirm. They are confirmed through studies, research and theory.. rooted in various facts we know to be true.
the most widely used drug is music. as we all know the beast was drugged by the soothing music, which releases all sorts of chemicals in the brain. everything is a drug if it releases chemicals in the brain or it brings on an emotion.
Not correct. A "drug" is defined as a SUBSTANCE which is introduced to the body and causes an effect upon it. While it is true that the greeks built theaters next to their hospitals because they felt that things like comedy, romance, and music had an impact on the healing process, it doesn't mean it can be defined as a drug. I'd also like to point out (again) that your are presenting contradicting arguments through out this thread, talking about how one doesn't need drugs to get a variety of positive effects. Yet with the other hand still pushing the benefits of mushrooms.. but condemning modern science.. etc..
summary:
to each their own. drugs are not bad, people are bad. nobody should tell you what is good or bad unless you know from experience, investigate what they say. don't take my word for it, learn it for yourselves.
Again, did my research.. research shows mushrooms are a bad idea.. I don't need to drink a bottle of acid to prove it will kill me. Let's also be clear.. these mushrooms can lead to a bad trip, they can lead to enhancing feelings of paranoia, depression, and other issues a person may feel. People have committed suicide on mushrooms, just a quick google search and you can find a good many articles describing various and even grisly methods by which these drug induced individuals decided to perform the act. Including one blogger who wrote about his experience while on mushrooms where he debated ending his life but obviously did not, given that he wrote a blog post about it, however it's interesting to see how it emotionally impacted him to consume those mushrooms, despite being a fairly regular user. One woman, perhaps seeking it as an alternative healing treatment (perhaps someone such as your self convinced her to try it) ended up having a heart attack as a result of consumption of the mushrooms.

I'll repeat this one more time and then I'm completely done with this conversational circle.. A persons experience does not equal truth every time. People pull pranks to cause false personal experiences.. For the victim of the prank, what appears to be truth is not.. however they will hold to it as truth until shown, and can accept, the reality. Many often ignore the facts and simply wait for the moments where their belief seems true.. Pavlov's dogs would hear a bell and be served dinner, and eventually associated the bell with food, yet not every time did they get food when the bell rang, however this did little to diminish their belief that food would soon arrive when they heard it. Anyone who's owned a cat can agree the can opener has the same effect, regardless if you are opening cat food, or canned tomatoes. Many believe in lucky charms, lucky shoes, hat, shirt, socks, etc.. not just for fun.. but for real.. they actually THINK it has the ability to grant them good fortune. Just because you think it's positive for you, doesn't mean it has no adverse effects on your body. Nor does it make it a healing drug. it is NOT safe for everyone it is a toxin by classification, one which causes physical effects that can FEEL good or bad..
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by T0Mi »

Wow. And there I thought I could sneak away for another 4 or 5 years.

You guys really have no idea what you are talking about. It's like a bear complaining to a shark that his knees hurt.

(Edited canadian style, because sorry)
Cows: please do at least some kind of basic research before posting "facts" that are simply not true, mainly because shrooms deserve better.
Doors they may open for you, and fill out spaces you didn't even know were empty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin

In particular: "Toxicity and harm potential" and "Medical research".
Last edited by T0Mi on Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paul Stevens
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Paul Stevens »

And we learned all of this on the Dungeon Master forum!
Now if we could get a Catholic vs Protestant thread fired up.
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Wizard Zedd
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Wizard Zedd »

TOMi...nicely said :)

The possibility of the GOOD of mushrooms cannot and should not be shut down because of fear and the "few" that have a "bad trip". How many people have had problems with prescription meds? OD'd on them?

From my limited knowledge they can have a warming, opening the mind experience for most...for those who are already unstable - not recommended, but then neither is alcohol or many other "legal" drugs.

I am not a promoter of doing drugs...just think that shutting down research on a natural substance is riduculous.
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terkio
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by terkio »

Wizard Zedd wrote: I am not a promoter of doing drugs.
:shock: You are :!:

:x I have enough of this proselytizing in this thread.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Gambit37 »

OK everyone, calm down. There are a few extreme views at either end of the argument and the balanced view typically lies somewhere in the middle.

People are entitled to their views, informed or otherwise, and unless there is a real danger to others when those views are shared, I see no harm in allowing CIVILISED discussion about it.

Play nice or the thread will be locked.
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Re: The Magic Healing

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Tomi, if you're going to make an argument that I didn't do my reading, and post a link to "educate" me, the least you can do is actually read the content within it. It clearly states the negative effects of the drug right within the page. It even has a large bold header reading "Possible adverse psychiatric effects". Also, it's not because OD is uncommon due to the large does required, than there are no dangers to a drug. I read plenty on the toxicity levels, and I don't think I even once suggested death due to over dose.. So I'm not sure why you're bringing toxicity levels into this.

As for "medical research" you may want to take note of the part that says "The similarity of psilocybin-induced symptoms to those of schizophrenia has made the drug a useful research tool in behavioral and neuroimaging studies of this psychotic disorder." They give it to those in the study to mimic schizophrenia.. how is this supposed to improve my view on the drug? My mothers schizophrenic patients were sometimes interesting.. there was that one who thought she was the rebirth of Jesus and kept stealing the bread from the pantry for the "Last supper" and hid it under her bed. I don't have anything against those with mental disorders, I've been around many of them much of my life because of my mothers chosen profession. This doesn't mean I wish to partake in a drug that will saddle me with a similar affliction even on a temporary basis.

Also, I did a good deal of research before responding the very first time, reading both positive and negative themed articles and evaluated it based on that. In fact EVERY time I respond, I do at *least* an hours worth of reading and research or more. This time it was nearly 2 hours. I haven't posted the links, mainly because I didn't expect that anyone would read them. They honestly weren't hard to find.

When you go about reading up on a topic, it's important to actively search for both the information you want, as well as the information on that topic you don't want as well. Which is why I read all the pro mushroom articles and blog posts and forum threads I came across as well as those which were devoted to negative things. It's not because some people have a good time with something, that it's not devoid of any negative potential. It's also important to note, most of the positive studies, still mention negative elements in their studies, and made sure they conducted their studies in a controlled environment to try to address the risks.

Why I'm upset here, is because this drug is being promoted without addressing the dangers, as if there aren't any. Which is why I, and others are putting in the effort on that side. I could post 100 scientific papers documenting thousands of cases to show the dangers.. but to those of you promoting it, I know it wouldn't change anything for you.. you'd simply dismiss them.. but thankfully, my posts are not here just for you, but to help educate those who may read your advice to "just try it it's great" and might be curious. To tell them to do research to see the cases of suicide, heart failure, and long term psychological damage which has been inflicted upon some, who took magic mushrooms. To note that not every trip is roses and fairytales for everyone.. that many have had outright disturbing trips. Again, I've had good friends who have died as a result of drug use. you can not expect me to not want to do something to prevent future deaths..
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

I recommend calm as Gambit has suggested:

"My mothers schizophrenic patients were sometimes interesting.. there was that one who thought she was the rebirth of Jesus and kept stealing the bread from the pantry for the "Last supper" and hid it under her bed. I don't have anything against those with mental disorders, I've been around many of them much of my life because of my mothers chosen profession. This doesn't mean I wish to partake in a drug that will saddle me with a similar affliction even on a temporary basis. "

I am sympathetic to this, and it is very difficult to resolve this problem. expanding the mind has nothing to do with schizit problems. that it is an hereditary problem due to genetics. you'll need to do bio research on your DNA, (quite available on the net)

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Re: The Magic Healing

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Actually, whether mental disorders such as Schizophrenia are due to an inherited genetic anomaly or through outside influences (be they drugs or whatever) is something that's unsure. Or at least it was when I studied this kind of stuff in Psychology over ten years ago :P. The true cause of such disorders remains a mystery. Genetics is certainly said to make it more likely someone will develop such a disorder but just because someone's parent experienced it doesn't automatically mean they will. Chemical influences such as cannabis are said to increase your risk if you already have one (or maybe even if you don't, I can't remember).
Whatever the case, I wouldn't want to ingest/inject/inhale anything that was likely to mess with my head :P.
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Re: The Magic Healing

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as TOMI said, you don't know until you do it yourself, and this is true. I know nobody from the decades of being on this planet and having a gigantic family that has ever had a mental disorder from doing drugs in general, but shrooms, not a soul. I did my research on it for many years so i'll stand by what I say. personally the worst thing that has happened to man is the INTERNET and TV. it has done good, but more harm than good, that's just the way man is. I would love to live back in the old days where when you went out it was to a barn or what have you and then they'd all sing and dance, not like today. we are losing that, I guess I am getting older. Music and TV are destructive in their wording, very bad but there is no turning back. so when you say NO Ameena to drugs, you do realize it is not said with experience, and that is not scientific. we humans fall prey pretty damn easy, just ask a magician how weak we really are to fear mongering. it's all over the net.

got to go, back to putting back all my programs from fresh reinstall. to each their own
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Re: The Magic Healing

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So umm..how come you're using the Internet, then, if it's so bad? Shuoldn't you be living in a barn and singing and dancing every night or something?
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Re: The Magic Healing

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um, cause that's the way man is. I don't think it possible to remain in old times, I HAVE NO CHOICE. I guess there are a few remote places where people would like to live simple, but that is not practical, I'd have to drop everything and un-attach myself from my children, grandchildren and own family and that's not possible. I have to be around to protect my grandchildren from all of this tech. and I will be teaching them all about mind conditioning, how to avoid getting boxed in with the mind, and to question everything, including authority which is at this time is not looking so good. so i'll need to be around for that. most importantly is to make sure they do not fall prey to fear and to explore every corner. I can't do that in a barn though Ameena, I have no choice. though I really would like to go back to those times where there wasn't practically everyone blasting their music and dead focused on smart phones and actually lift their heads up and notice their surroundings.
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Re: The Magic Healing

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it has come to my attention through a forum member that because I am a shaman I have been ostracized, I didn't know it offended people to that degree. I apologize to those I upset. it upsets me to hear that, I can't believe that this feeling has run so deep that it has affected the community. I did not see this as serious but apparently it is. again, my apologies, but I am a shaman and it is what I practice in medicine, psychology. I work with open minds which is outside the mundane world and it scares some people. the fear of the unknown is present everywhere. sorry to everyone who misunderstood the forum topic and took it the wrong way.
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Re: The Magic Healing

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Clarity is key.. it was me.. and I said I do not agree with the promotion and use of drugs of the sort you're speaking about here.. which is considered a recreational drug. That was also a statement related to use of my personal FB account, and as such a reflection of MY PERSONAL OPINION not a community shared ideal.

Also, this is not about being a shaman.. tip toeing through the tulips(or mushrooms) and then eating them so you can trip out is not being a shaman.. Shamans enter trance states in ways other than using drugs. Simple meditation, drums, and chanting.. fasting, sweat lodges.. use of the drug is the more extreme of the cases, they understood the power of the substance and the risks involved. In addition to this, unlike becoming a christian, or scientologist.. you can't simply decide one day that you're going to be a Shaman and that's it.. The wounded healer is awoken to this role either through blood link to another shaman, father/mother, grandfather etc. Or through a trauma or illnesss that brings them to the edge of death, and thus the spirit world where initial contact to the spirits begins. Even then, they are not Shamans, these things must happen early in life and then training from a master (ie someone who follows the same path of having learned from early childhood.. not downloaded a PDF from the internet or borrowed a book at the library). Only after this do they wear the title of Shaman..

The internet is filled with "shamans" ..

Am I against Shamanism though? no.. not at all.. my grandmother was 1/2 native. I also understand that the use of drugs in that religion is a minor factor, and even then not suggested without a shaman to act as a guide. Randomly telling people on the internet to take drugs to open their minds is not something a real shaman would do.. for a variety of reasons.. but we'll leave it there.

If you're looking for an open membership in a faith that communes with nature and spirits and condones drug use, you could always try Wicca.. They at least have reliable sources of true practitioners on the internet, (though still a large number of fakes).. Many who work hard to dispel (pun not intended) misconceptions about their faith and practices. Should you desire to participate in that faith, I'd suggest taking it seriously and follow the guides and practices outlined by true wiccans and give it the respect it deserves..
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Re: The Magic Healing

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first of all this was a scientific post, did you even read what I posted? I hope you're not going to doubt science

"Also, this is not about being a shaman.. tip toeing through the tulips(or mushrooms) and then eating them so you can trip out is not being a shaman"

not the case cows, you're not understanding what shamanism is. I do not condone the use or do trip out on it. I was being straight forward and honest, shamans use all sorts of methods to crack the hard headed people open, it's psychology. it is unfortunate that you misunderstand that. they use sound, sight, and a myriad of different sources to reach the unreachable, to get through the membrane's of people who need help. if only you understood what they do and their importance of their function you wouldn't be thinking that. again I apologize for the misunderstanding. just to make it very clear to you.

I don't take mushrooms to get high! and I don't do them all that often. they are special to me, a gift, not as you see it. I found learning about them, the mycology of it all, all sorts of information can be derived from it, I suggest you just keep the door closed, it appears it frightens you in such a way that just closed your openness to learning about what they are. that's ok with me. I was only showing the SCIENTIFIC info now available, they still don't know a whole lot about them because closed minded draconian people keep destroying its benefits due to fear. I will live my life happy, I won't blame any drug or anything on things that don't work out, I know my spirit well enough that I do not need to worry about such silly things. I'm not tip toeing nothing, I'm not afraid! I spent 15 years becoming a shaman, you should investigate further how shamans come about, you'll be reading for years and years, conversing with other shamans, you can bet I did that for a number of years. you don't know me at all.

"If you're looking for an open membership in a faith that communes with nature and spirits and condones drug use,"

have another read of the posts, you'll see that statement is false, I posted I do not condone the use, I made that CLEAR

on a lighter note, just remember that some people don't like alcohol either, probable the most widely taken poison with adverse affects that stretch to every part of the body and mind, that is to the alcoholic of course, but I don't say, hey man, you drink so you're a druggy. you do know that alcohol is a drug and when you enter a liquor store it says SPIRITS IN BOLD above the door. being a bit native I figure you know that already. natives seem to have a problem with drinking, I can say I don't like a drunk, can't stand them. it's a matter of perspective.

it's ok to not like something, that's your choice, I think we can still all behave like normal mature adults and see past this petty thought, forget about it, just remember, I AM A SHAMAN and you hardly know me. thanks for your vote of confidence on you thinking you know that I'm not a shaman, really, how would you know that I wonder. you don't see me posting my life on facebook do you. no, of course not. I thought this science article was a good one to help people like you to understand that world a little better, that's all. a science article is all it was and i'll stick to what I know, A MAGIC HEALING.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Jan »

Hmmm, I'm quite lost in this conversation, probably because I missed its beginning. Maybe the trouble is that the terms "shaman" and "shamanism" etc. are overused nowadays, often also misused, and not very well defined; and as a result a misunderstanding can easily occur.

Personally I don't claim I know anything about "shamanism" but I do know something about traditional rituals in (southern) Africa and they do make me - i.e. someone who sees himself as a man of science and "Western" rationality - stop and think, don't they? They do make me wonder... :roll:
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by cowsmanaut »

I'll ignore the racial slurs and missuse of my words yet again.. I'll just ask you a simple question..

in These 15 years of training, You followed the strict Native American Teachings of Shamanism? all their core beliefs? Yes or no?
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Wizard Zedd »

Going back to my original point of that mushrooms and other psychedelics and marijuana for that matter have the ability to help people with a variety of different ailments NATURALLY. These things should be studied further. Many ancient cultures used mushrooms to connect with each other and the planet and in the 60s governments decided to make it illegal and therefore they really have not been able to find out the full potential of how they could help us. Here is an interesting little documentary I found:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ06WNAXuAw
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Paul Stevens »

I would enjoy this thread if there were more 'opinion' and
less explicit and implied use of the pronoun 'you'. More along
the lines of what Wizard Zedd has offered.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by cowsmanaut »

Sorry Paul. It started that way. Then things shifted. There are really two topics within this thread as it evolved.. the cultural use vs medical use of mushrooms. and a different sub thread where one claims that their actions are the result of a title that they may or may not have. Recognizing that an error has been made and owning up to it is an important part of personal growth, and to the community you are taking part in. Claiming to say "sorry" and then say it's the fault of your "title" is not sincere. Either one believes an error has been made and chooses to take responsibility, or they don't and thus do not.

To address Wizard Zedd though, Natural doesn't = healthy. Also defining a drug as potentially dangerous or "recreational" doesn't mean it has no beneficial elements to it. This is the core thing that must be understood. Tobacco for example. When people smoke it, they gain benefits of nicotine. However they also get cancer, reduced lung function, and a host of other ailments from the other compounds released in that smoke. This makes Tobacco more negative than positive, at least in this usage. In the lab, they remove nicotine from the leaf and are able to use it for other things. It promotes memory recall.. it also has a few other benefits you can read in full online. Cannabis has THC which has cancer fighting qualities and some other benefits such as calming anxiety, and increasing appetite. The rest of the plant can be used to make fabrics for clothing and other things.. however, again, when smoked, it has a number of negative effects which include cancer.. so despite it's cancer fighting elements of THC, it doesn't negate the cancer causing elements of smoking the plant.

The point is, the compounds we need to deal with illness and disease are found in any source. Just don't think that because those compounds are found within that plant, that the rest of the plant is good for you. Snake venom is another good example, it can kill you when delivered "naturally" but when refined, it has enzymes that can help clot blood, and others which can break up clots depending on the breed of snake. :)

Where I get pissed off, is where people shout out how they should be allowed to smoke Cannabis because of all the benefits they've read about THC. Kind of missed the point.. it's one tiny portion of the plant. They also are very obvious in their desire to simply smoke it for recreation. They don't respect it.. they ignore the negative elements.. they neglect the responsible use of it as many go off high to work in jobs where their slowed reaction time can lead to accidents which would hurt them or others.. So, support of Cannabis smoking, and support of THC research are not the same thing..

Anyway, claiming that research has not happened on mushrooms and other "illegal" drugs is imply not true. I can find a mushroom psilocybin research paper from just last year. A fully funded research panel with FMRI scanning and other tests to see through brain mapping how it affects the brain. This is hardly ignoring the full potential of them. There is an entire research society for cannabis http://www.icrs.co/

These things are NOT being ignored. A few seconds of research on google can make this very clear :D
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Wizard Zedd »

Yes there has been various research done in the past few years that has shown promise in a number of areas for the use of mushrooms, LSD and other psychedelics. However it still holds a stigma due to the illegal factor. Only recently has the use of medicinal marijuana been opened up and given relief to people suffering through chemo treatments, epilepsy and multiple sclerosis to mention just a few. Still, many people shun them because they "smoke dope". There are many other ways to get the benefits of marijuana without smoking it, which I agree, no smoke is good for our bodies. If we look at all the pharmaceutical drugs that are prescribed to help with what ails us, the side effects of them can be far worse than the original ailment. There is a balance to be found and the use of the various illegal substances is definitely worth exploring. As for the recreational use I have always been a fan of to each his own, live and let live. Alcohol is probably the worst legal mind altering substance there is - it kills many people every year from the effects of alcoholism, violence, drinking and driving...not to mention the detrimental effects it has on relationships. But hey - it's taxable and legal...so drink up - but don't smoke a joint.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by cowsmanaut »

There is a stigma in the view of the average person, depending on where you live, sure... This is not reflected in the research and medical fields though. I'm afraid that saying open use of the medical marijuana is only recent seems to not fall in with the evidence. There have certainly been a few busts of dispensaries in the US.. but it's not in every area.. and you also need to look at the world as a whole.. not just the States..

To be clear about the booze vs pot debate.. in both cases, they tell you to not drive or go to work under the influence.. it's just more harsh with pot.. there are a large number of stigmas and laws surrounding the use and sale of both substances..
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Wizard Zedd »

Hey...I agree cowsmanaut :)

Driving and working under the influence of alcohol or marijuana and many other pharmaceuticals is obviously not recommended - but occurs every day, and of course, depending on your job could have very harsh consequences.

I hope that from a medical point of view that studies continue and that more people are given the opportunity to have marijuana, mushrooms and LSD etc. available to them if it will help them. I have read a number of articles where even children can ingest marijuana (with a very low THC level, and even with no THC at all) to assist with debilitating epileptic seizures. Many people need to travel far from their homes to seek this type of treatment. It is still very new and will require years of study before it will be opened up to the masses. All I can say is research, research and more research!
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

cowsmanaut wrote:I'll ignore the racial slurs and missuse of my words yet again.. I'll just ask you a simple question..

in These 15 years of training, You followed the strict Native American Teachings of Shamanism? all their core beliefs? Yes or no?
cows, there are hundreds of different cultures, but if you really want to know, all one needs to do is to be able to hear and speak with the spirits, talk to nature, but you can join a cult, not my thing and i never will. read up more on all the different types of cultures surrounding it. it may enlighten the mind. here is what is important about this type of self religion is, you don't need to belong to any group. know thy self. i'm not sure why such the attack on my openness, there is nothing to base it on. it would be like saying you're not an artist which to me would be quite rude.

just to make it clear, i'm a grandfather who's made quite a difficult journey to find myself, it wasn't easy i can tell you that, had to clear all the hurdles such as what you were doing. been here before, and it's taken years to get those around me to understand the choices. thinking that N American native's have the only cult is completely incorrect, read about all the others around he globe and then talk to the village elder then come back and we'll talk about it. N America tribes also are different, depends where they are located. most cultures use some sort of plant extract or smoke, or clothing, or objects, or animals, the list goes on and on, but when it comes down to it, it is really understanding plants, animals, fear. some are medicinal healers, some are psychologists, so a shaman can be a healer in many different ways. psychology is the method of preference for me. people come to me and for lack of a better word, dump their thoughts and feelings on to me, i listen and then filter it out and give a response, no tricks, just a psychologist.

no need to be struck by lightning, or born deformed, or chosen by the tribe, starve in the middle of a forest, or near death experiences is needed to achieve being a shaman. read up on it and you'll find what was said is true.

cows, all i can say to you is sorry i ever looked at facebook and found out about your life, to see it upset you to the point of attacking me like that just wasn't worth it. i was wishing to do some graphics, didn't know it'd upset you. please do not attack who i am as an excuse to belittle me, it upset me to find out what you said which prompted the apology. i was actually following what Dave said, invite all you can to the forum, and look what i got for it.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Wizard Zedd wrote:Hey...I agree cowsmanaut :)

Driving and working under the influence of alcohol or marijuana and many other pharmaceuticals is obviously not recommended - but occurs every day, and of course, depending on your job could have very harsh consequences.

I hope that from a medical point of view that studies continue and that more people are given the opportunity to have marijuana, mushrooms and LSD etc. available to them if it will help them. I have read a number of articles where even children can ingest marijuana (with a very low THC level, and even with no THC at all) to assist with debilitating epileptic seizures. Many people need to travel far from their homes to seek this type of treatment. It is still very new and will require years of study before it will be opened up to the masses. All I can say is research, research and more research!
i guess if we look at it in the light, there are plenty of articles that point to let's say, bad behavior causing injury, but i do not see articles pertaining to that mushrooms are a serious problem, as a matter of fact, never seen a headline about it. mushrooms are not a problem. not addicting in anyway. don't hear about people saying they need their next fix. most people try mushrooms a few times in their lives and most of the time it is life changing experiences. there is no mushroom addiction centre nor is there a report that they are bad for you. there are no people selling it on the corner of streets. the stigma is based on fear and propaganda, the authorities have really done a number on anything that can expand the mind, just like they did attacking gay people rights to be queer. it is getting more acceptable now, nobody says we have to be like them, and there is nothing that can be done about it. one day if man grows up enough we'll be able to explore the places that were once forbidden and punished for being out side the box. there will always be people that use fear to control themselves as well as others, who'll get on the same band wagon without any study, i call it the ignorant fear wagon, it's so easy to do to people, i see the tactic being used all the time, it's disgusting. we were taught to fear mushrooms all our lives, i found out that that is a bunch of BS, yeah, don't eat poison mushrooms, but not all of them are poison, i use them to expand my thoughts with others, have helped people in my life by getting inside and hearing their lost voice. that is what being a shaman is to me.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by cowsmanaut »

just FYI...

Experimentation.. on a pro mushroom board, from a regular mushroom user..
http://www.shroomery.org/3920/Fatal-Mushroom-Trip

never heard of any articles saying anything negative about musrhooms.. you can check each of these they show up in multiple places, but this is a legit news source..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rooms.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fall.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tmare.html

perhaps you don't trust random people.. or perhaps don't like what others would call a reputable news source.. how about a government website?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23878898
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9541042/

this is just a handful of links that I found in a matter of 5 seconds.. I could keep going.. there are 44 google pages filled with related results for this ONE SEARCH.. this was just the first page and I haven't even made it to the bottom yet....
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

totally missed the point, sorry was on vacation.

the point being made was we DO NOT HEAR of mushroom problems in newspapers, or the radio, but I agree we can find an article if one looks it up, please have a search on aspirin, great fruit, ANYTHING, and you'll see they all have some sort of adverse effects. i'll state it once again, there are no reports in general media that mushrooms are bad, unless they are poisonous ones. the only thing we hear on the media is opium based pain killers (the most widely abused and deadly) alcohol, speed, meth, and a plethora of other substances, but not mushrooms. been around for decades and never heard about troubles with mushrooms. somebody has planted the idea that mushrooms are bad, BS!

now to get back to the truth, shamans all around the world use mushrooms and many other substances in their practice, that's a fact. spend a few years learning about them cows, at least a few, and then grow them, learn what a mushroom is, right now there is little evidence that you have studied them. shamans use mushrooms, please have a search on that and learn what they do with them, could post plenty of info on that. see no proof mushrooms are bad and considering you've never even tried one and have no idea why this anger about simple mushroom. almost all shamans use substances, look it up. no need to panic about facebook, could care less about it so no worries mate. just remember I was there to work on DM, not to hear your excuses not to add me as a friend, that private message was loaded with some pretty bad feelings, ignored it as asked to do in our last conversation, been through this before with plenty of other people who don't even know what a shaman is and all they know is their disproval of the use of a mushroom. too bad the prejudice has gotten into the way of what this place is about, working with others on DM, I think that has been lost somewhere, the community is destroying itself, hopefully we're all grown up enough now to start working together. would have left years ago if it were not for the love of DM, god knows how many insults that have been tossed around, enough of this, let's get back to work. sure, call me a plastic shaman cows, no big deal, can still work with a plastic artist, a stone artists, a rubber artist, not going to change anything. let's all try and work together for a change. with any luck things will improve.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Ameena »

Can we just drop it? I'm getting fed up with these kind of messages :P. The DM community is fine, just quiet. I'm not even gonna get into the drug discussion again.
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Re: The Magic Healing

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

lol, not to worry, cows knows I'm not the bad guy, we've chatted and settled it already. was just a bit upset about facebook, it has nothing much to do with The Magic Healing. am willing to chat about the topic to anyone with an open mind who has experience(s) or questions.
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