Dungeon Master and my dad. Late 80s

[andyvvc]

Back in the late 80s my dad bought our first 16bit computer from A.S Wootton and Sons in Crewe: An Atari ST with the single-sided floppy drive :O(

About two years later, he bought a second one from the same store. This time the later 520STFM that had the 'Rainbow TOS' operating system and *hurrah* a double-sided disk drive!

Atari ST nostalgia aside, the first game i recall playing was 'Test Drive' by Accolade. We bought that the same day we bought the first ST. It cost £24.95 but the store in Crewe offered discounts on all software - i think 15% or so. I thought the game was amazing. Such a departure from the older Atari 2600 system that we had. I thought the graphics and gameplay were wonderful.

I was 11 years old. Dad was in his early forties and quite a tall, lanky chap.

Not long into our ownership of that first Atari, my dad purchased a game that would transform both our videogaming lives: Dungeon Master. Purchased from A.S. Wootton and Sons in Crewe, I can vividly recall the day we bought it. The screenshots on the back of the box looked....stunning!

Rather like the 1st-person viewpoint of 'Test Drive', the interface and style of DM completely stunned us both. It was nothing short of a revelation.

Dad had played a lot of the old 2600 games with me/against me: Combat, Breakout, Super Breakout, Defender etc. But it was Dungeon Master that would cement our videogaming bond. Despite it being firmly single-player, i was always happy to watch dad play. And when he wasn't playing, he was happy for me to take over (just so long as i didn't get the party killed of course!)

Dad's style of play on DM was..... glacial compared to mine. I would run around like an idiot, repeatedly failing to remember my way; getting lost; getting killed; falling down pits. I wasn't playing like a fool - i was just *so* desperate to see what was around the next corner. The game had me captivated in such a way as i don’t think i have ever been since!

Compared to me, dad would play the game slowly. Methodically. Mapping out each level on some grid-like maths paper. Noting all the spells down. Noting weapon attributes etc. Dad even spent hours in the 'Hall of Champions' mapping that AND listing out all the stats and equipment that each character had :O)

Our band of misfits was typically re-incarnated (but we re-used the names): Tiggy Tamal. Wuuf the Bika. Boris Wizard of Baldor. Halk the Barbarian.

Dad was stronger with the spells: Anti Fire. Anti Magic.
I used to pick the biggest weapon that we had found up to that point and smash things with Halk (Does the weapon have a melee option? If yes, use it! lol)

Between us we slowly encroached into the lower dungeons. Screamers came and went. Gigglers annoyed the hell out of us (especially dad - not an ideal combo when you are mapping stuff out slowly!). The worm level was a godsend. More free food! Water became a scarce resource - if we found a container it invariably got filled with water. The Golems presented a big challenge to us later on. The deth knights were a pain if you got cornered. I loved the spirit-type enemies that could only be injured with a vorpal blade or magic (the Witcher series of games continues this theme with double-swords to handle spirits/physical foes).

The game seemed to just keep on giving - different monsters, traps, puzzles. And all from one lowly single-sided disk (at least i think it was single sided?)

The Atari ST was setup in my parents bedroom on a computer table in the corner. So access to it was limited to times they weren't sleeping.... slightly annoying when i woke at 7am on a Saturday and had to wait for mum and dad to get up before i could play Test Drive, OIDS or DM.

Later into the evenings, dad could often be found having a “quick go” on Dungeon Master. That would typically escalate into a 3-4 hour session which ended only when my mum wanted to go to bed.

Dad was often quite vocal while playing DM: shouts of anger or surprise when confronted by an unexpected monster or trap were common place. The biggest such shout occurred the first time we ever faced the Dragon. This was a mythical beast – I’m not even certain if walkthroughs/reviews had really mentioned the appearance of the Dragon, or more precisely *where* it appeared in the game. (I think the review in ST Action mentioned it?). So I guess we knew it was there….but when dad first encountered it: “Oh bloody hell!!!” [ROAR] [BANG] [4x characters saying “AHHHH”] Game Over.

Trying to meticulously map level 14 wasn’t easy with the big Dragon fella lumbering about :O)

As the years progressed, dad turned his hand to PC gaming: Oblivion, Skyrim, World of WarCraft. He kept his hand in, again trying to map and record info in Oblivion (glass armour stats etc). He was even part of a WOW Guild that myself and some mates ran . . . listening to my dad over voice comms when trying to get him to orchestrate a planned attack on an end-of-raid boss was pretty funny! Folks in their late 60s aren’t as quick with the mouse and keyboard as us younger folks!

But of all the video games dad played, it was Dungeon Master that stood out for him. That was the game that reeled him in like no other before or since ever has.

He even spent a lot of time mapping out the DM Java remake in the early 2000s :O)

Dad died in November 2017. He suffered a massive stroke while being treated in hospital for a heart infection that had badly infected one of his arteries.

Myself and close family were with him as his slowly slipped away. His pupils were fully dilated. He had no pain response. There was no response at all from his brain. His body, lungs and heart were hanging on in there… but slowly as the hours passed they got weaker and weaker until eventually…. with me holding one of his hands and my sister the other….dad gave one final small breath and then his heart gave one final, small pulse. He was gone . . .

Part of me likes to think that, at the exact moment dad died, somewhere in Africa a lanky giraffe was born whose first living thought was: “Why do I know so much about Dungeon Master…!?”

I’ve since re-discovered dad’s maps and notes for WOW, Oblivion, Skyrim and (notably) extensive written notes and maps for DM Java. Somewhere (I hope in either my garage or my parents) are dads original Dungeon Master notes and maps. I haven’t seen them in over a decade but I’m hopeful that I never threw them out and that (somewhere) in the back of my garage or my parents those extensive set of notes still exist.

If I find them, I’ll have to upload a few pictures here.

Thanks for buying Dungeon Master all those years ago dad. It made such a massive impression on my life which still holds true today.

RIP fella.

[Ameena]

Aaw, nice story . Certainly DM has been a pretty big thing to most of us here in these parts. Welcome to the forum and feel free to share any other stories you may have...did you ever play CSB? I can only imagine there were even more shouts of frustration at repeated deaths and confusion of the map layout, especially when trying to meticulously get it all down on paper .

[Nebulus]

Nice story !

I played DM when I was 15, then played it again and again every 5 years since that day (with CSB and DM2). My son is only 10 but he seems amazed when he looks at me playing. I don't ask him to play it but I'm sure he will ask some day.

I know everybody says his game is the best one (Final Fantasy VII, Mass Effect, Oblivion, ...) but I still think DM&CSB are far beyond and it's cool to know you're not alone thinking that.

[Gambit37]

Thank you for sharing your story @andyvvc, I found it very moving to hear about your close relationship with your dad, and sharing those gaming experiences together.

[andyvvc]

I managed to locate a lot of dad's old DM documentation - some snippets above.

I haven't yet worked out which levels the maps refer too. Oddly, it looks like i scrawled the 'weird scroll' details on one of the sheets - but i thought that was from Chaos? lol! maybe i mixed up the paper sheets all those years ago and wrote notes for Chaos on a DM sheet doh!

[andyvvc]

I'm not sure if the images load ok? (I'm at work today - content is blocked from File Sharing sites).

I have looked again at the notes dad made, and the one with the CSB 'scroll' detail on it is indeed a page (or two) of notes that he made when we were playing CSB :O)

The plethora of pages (40+ in all) have now been moved from the garage to my study, stored safely in a leather wallet file until i work out how best to store/present them. Thankfully they don't seem to have suffered from 10+ years sat in various garages!

[Ameena]

Wow, that's cool, I can tell which parts of the games those are from . The first map is DM Level Ten - it has the "Beware my tsiwted humour, the deceiver, the snake" wiggly path at the beginning. The next two map images are the same, both showing Level Twelve - I recognise the shape of the Spider Room toward the lower right, and also the large rooms earlier in the level, to the left of the map, where you fight a bunch of Knights.
The character list below that is obviously the DM characters, though I'm not sure what the "PQB" thing is that they all seem to have listed among their stuff.
The note pages below that are definitely CSB - the first references the Laughing Pit and the gibberish scroll, while the second relates to the various Ways - Neta and Dain are mentioned, with notes under each as though made about each path. "Flying teeth monsters" near the end of the Neta notes are presumably Munchers (the flying red crabby things with, well, teeth ). The Dain section also makes another mention of the Laughing Pit, as well as the Cistern. Also the general lack of clear organisation as opposed to the very precise and well-done DM maps kind of implies that the dungeon is that much more of a chaotic mess in general, and as we all know, that is very much the case with CSB .

[slickrcbd]

Ninjaed, but what does it say about us that we can ID the levels immediately for a 30 year old game? My own personal ATF, when I look at some games produced today with RPGMaker 2000 (they resemble Super Nintendo RPGs like Final Fantasy IV, Lufia, Paladin's Quest, or Secret of the Stars) I'd say that it is still viable and I'm surprised it isn't sold on GOG and elsewhere the way Eye of the Beholder is.
Some of my childhood favorites haven't aged well, with the graphics looking horrible by modern standards, but DM still looks decent today.

[MasterWuuf]

I really enjoyed this sharing. I found a bunch of my old DM floor sheets, years back (before I joined this group). I remember spending time looking them over and remembering the many hours of gameplay (Atari ST, second one with colored monitor). Too many years and moves went by. I still have some of the stuff (lost the coin, grrrrr). Great times, sharing with my own children, the DM experience.

[terkio]

I have, on the top of the wardrobe in my bedroom: All the CSB maps, rolled together in two scrolls, together with all champions statistics.

[slickrcbd]

I've still got a folder with all the DM stuff, along with a bunch of other folders with old game notes. From the days before built-in adventurer's journals and auto-maps that let you put your own notes on (automaps were a thing in some games like Might and Magic and Bard's Tale, but it just helped in transcribing to graph paper since they were lacking in detail). Oh, and I guess GameFAQs.com.

[Ameena]

I should probably mention, if we're all saying what stuff we've got, that I've still got our DM hint book thingy (scans available on the Encyclopaedia website - it's the one with all the maps highlighted in blue), as well as the paper CSB "map" image and Gor coin.

[boyflea]

Lovely story; amazing how powerful those early gaming memories are to all of us and it's great to see how your father is still part of you through your childhood memories.
I recognise those maps and that daft fake riddle from CSB. My son recognises Dungeon Master but he's still very much the Minecraft boy.
Those are beautiful maps. I wish I still had some pen n' paper gaming stuff as a legacy for my kids - I still have the odd d20, but nothing as wonderful as those maps. Thanks for sharing.

[oh_brother]

Lovely story, and great that you and your dad had these to bond over. Computer games can leave such strong (and find) memories!

[ParuNexus]

what an incredible story, thanks for sharing. It's both amazing and wonderful all these memories created by the games, from making maps the strong bond with family. While my dad had an Atari, I think my brother first found Dungeon Master my sister played and i only played a few levels in. I would absolutely quit at Level 4, the 4 mummies scared me alot when i was younger, and I just couldn't handle the worm level. My sister first got D&D and DMed a game without me gave to my brother and had a VERY long campaign all 3 of us. One very early adventure did have Gaint Ants so maybe inspired by the DM games.

[andyvvc]

Quick update: I've now finally gotten around to sorting out some half-decent leather binders for all dads old notes/maps. I'll get some pics posted up over the weekend hopefully.

I've also (wrong forum ?!?) been struggling to find our GOR coin. I have the old Atari ST DM and CSB boxes (not too bad condition) and the floppies and instructions.... can't find the coin anywhere!

I know i had it stored separately in a small plastic container along with lots of foreign coins. Damned if i can find the GOR coin though. I have a nasty feeling that a charity 'foreign change' collection might have inadvertently been donated a GOR coin sometime in the last decade lol!

On the plus side, my wife has said that an eBay package from the US has arrived today. CSB for the Amiga. Allegedly with the GOR coin . . .

(Disclaimer: I've mentioned DM as much as CSB...so technically this is 50% posted in the correct forum lol)!

[Ameena]

Sounds cool...sad about your loss of the Gor coin though . I wonder what that charity thought if they did receive it - maybe they thought it was some weird creepy religious thing, lol.

[andyvvc]

[Ameena]

Cool . Pity the tex has come out so small abd blurry in the images - it would be fun to see what you guys wrote back then. The folder thingy you keep it in is cool too - looks like some proper old DnD journal type thing .

[slickrcbd]

Yes, it does look cool. I'm surprised you sprung for one of those. I keep my old gaming stuff in cheap file folders or pocket folders. Those portfolios (or is it a trapper-keeper) were and still are expensive. I use one for my "interview kit" with my resumes, references, and a notepad for job interviews, but that's about all I have.

Still it seems extremely appropriate.

[MasterWuuf]

I found my old DM stuff in a raggedy box. It did have a lid. Would that count as classy?

[slickrcbd]

Mines in an old Anheuser-busch crate my grandfather acquired somewhere and put a hinge on the top. He stained or varnished it and made it into a box for reasons I can't remember that eventually became the box for keeping the gaming paraphernalia.
I've got all my old Apple II gaming stuff in it. Manuals (often required for copy protection), reference cards, notes, etc.
I've been using it for that since a few months after I got my Apple IIGS. Originally it had all the books and manuals too, but I had to put the big book type ones in a separate location and keep only the thin stuff in the box.
I honestly can't recall what I used that box for before the computer stuff, and I only got the computer when I was nine but had the box before that. I also can't recall if the box was originally his, my mother's, or if it was given to me as soon as he made it. I can't recall it's origin other than grandpa made it.

[andyvvc]

Some more (better quality) pics from my dads exploits in DM and Chaos (plus, i think, some DM Java notes from 2002 lol!!!)

[andyvvc]

Some more:

[andyvvc]

Looking through all the notes, maps, re-drawn maps (where we went off the edge of the graph paper lol!) there must be over 200 pages of notes for DM and Chaos. Plus a set for DM Java

[Ameena]

That's cool, I like figuring out what level each of the maps is, and glad I can still recognise them .

[jayrshaw]

Wow - sorry to hear about your father. It's good that you're still keeping him in your memory. His maps/notes remind me of some of the maps I made on graph paper myself many years ago...


--Jay

[MasterWuuf]

I noticed your dad's designation for the Zo Kath Ra spell was "blob" Liked that.