New DirectX9 DM clone - entombed

[Foz]

You're in a spot of trouble there then, that kkrieger has this minimum spec:

- A 1.5GHz Pentium3/Athlon or faster.
- 512MB of RAM (or more)
- A Geforce4Ti (or higher) or ATI Radeon8500 (or higher) graphics card
supporting pixel shaders 1.3, preferably with 128MB or more of VRAM.
- Some kind of sound hardware
- DirectX 9.0b

Now, I know that Entombed uses Pixel Shader 2, but is being tested on an ati X300 and an nvidia 6200 (two of the most bottom rung cards you can actually get today that is listed in Toms Hardware latest guide)

[Trakl]

Well, kkrieger never mind I played on someone else's computer.

I hope Entombed is not that hungry...

[zoom]

Code: Select all

Samurai Sword	46	1.4375	23	16	Slash (16, 0)		
Samurai Sword	46	1.4375	11.5	8	Parry (8, 1)		
Samurai Sword	46	1.4375	86.25	60	Melee (60, 5) 46		

 Sword	34	1.0625	17	16	Swing (16, 0)		
 Sword	34	1.0625	8.5	8	Parry (8, 2)		
 Sword	34	1.0625	51	48	Chop (48, 3) 34		

Axe	49	1.53125	24.5	16	Swing (16, 0)		
Axe	49	1.53125	73.5	48	Chop (48, 0)		
Axe	49	1.53125	91.875	60	Melee (60, 5) 49		
	

item name, base weapon damage , weapon rating (base weapon damage/32), resulting damage for action, standard dmg for action , actions(damage, needed fighter level).note that the chop action of an axe does not need any fighter level, whereas the chop of the sword needs level 3)
you will find more on the weapons page of dungeon master/items on the encyclopaedia site where I found the base damages next to others, and some info I ave taken from some of Paul Stevens flowcharts a while ago... hope this helps

[Tom Hatfield]

kkrieger was a tech demo and far superior to what you find in most home-brewed games. DSE is using some advanced shaders, but he's not pushing any system to the limit. Specs will very greatly.

What's that number at the end of each set?

[DSE]

zoooom - can I ask where you got that info please ? And, can you get me a complete list ?

All - you will need a gfx card capable of shader 2. this clone isnt going to run on a nail of a computer, sorry guys, I dont have the energy to write a shader model 1.1 version or bitmap version. If you look at the spec required for a modern directx 9 game, the specs for this clone will be very similiar. the very nature of rendering grahpics using shaders and having full physics engine in the game, mean the requirements are going to be higher than CSBWin/DMJava/etc. I dont want to build anyones hopes up if they are running an integrated gfx card, or similiar.

The specs for kkrieger are lower than I would think you are going to require to run Entombed, something like -

512MB
shader model 2 card (directx 9)
pentium 4 (or equivalent) 1.8/2.0 ghz processor

sorry to anyone who hasnt got these.

FYI - I didnt want to just write another clone like the others, they have been done perfectly by other people (there is very little left to do in that genre). I wanted something different that used modern rendering techniques to produce the graphics and to incorporate a physics engine into the game. Also, I am not trying to write an Oblivion type game, basically something that sites between the two styles. hope this makes sense.

[zoom]

I think the info was out of the flowchart:
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/doc ... Damage.png
D7=P8/32.. but I am not sure anymore. I got through the flowchart by colouring all Ds and I did not succeed in fully realising what is going on. To be honest, I don't know whether it is not completely wrong!

well, part could be from here as well:
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/doc ... stance.gif
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/260
and dungeon master 2 hint books and the like..

If it happens to be right I would like to make a list for all here on the forum and maybe you could add the info from yours ,too.
I am referring to the damage example you stated(experience and damage ranges; where did you get the ranges from?) :

It does seem that the biggest gains are not from the weapon per se, but by the action it allows -

1. Slash damage = 16
2. Melee damage = 60 + much higher chance of hit

This combined with the better attributes and mastery and you hit alot harder. So a neophyte with an axe using "slash", will hit for around 3 to 13 points. Same guy with a mastery level (8 ish + stat increases) will have the "Melee" action on the axe and will hit for anything between 17 - 60.

[Foz]

I am referring to the damage example you stated(experience and damage ranges; where did you get the ranges from?)

Running the PhysicalAttack produced the ranges that he has listed:

I have just spent the last 12 hours porting the PhysicalAttack to vb.net with all the support functions it needs to work. Running a 100 sample test against the figures in CSBWin, it looks to be correct.

[zoom]

Thank you , Foz. I overread that part..
I would like to be able to do that , too. (porting the PhysicalAttack to vb.net)
Well, the trace feature of csbwin is pretty much complete but I think no ranges..

I would like to know more about the attack things and ranges, because I once thought about a pen and paper version of dm.

[DSE]

Just an update ...

I have now finished -

1. All the 'actions' for hand-to-hand combat with creatures and different weapons, etc.
2. Eating and drinking.
3. Levelling up with skill increases and their corresponding increases in damage for close combat.
4. Added fountains to the game for drinking.
5. Added "Ettin meat" for eating ('dropped' by the two headed fella).

I now need to actually play the game and fine tweak it so that it feels right.

The good news is that I dont think I will be doing much more on it before the ALPHA demo is released. I will need some time to prepare the install package and stuff.

Also, I need some 2d graphics doing, is anyone available to do some small jobs ? An example is an icon for a magic box.

Thanks.

[Erik Bauer]

Great news!
Can't wait for the Alpha download!

[Trakl]

Cool! You rock!

[DSE]

I am going out in a mo to buy an nvidia card for my womens pc. I am going to get a standard 6600 card. I am hoping that the game runs well on this as its a cheap card (£45). I will let you know.

[DSE]

Well, a bit of a mixed couple of days here at Entombed central ...

When I went to purchase the card, even thought their online stock system said five availabe, they had sold out. Oh well. They did however have an Nvidia 7600GS, which is now in my other computer.

The good news is that the game now runs on nvidia hardware. You might be thinking what I mean by "now runs" well heres the story. It turns out that my entire animation system was based on a specific part of the DirectX system which nVidia dont support. I really did panic when the game failed to load any of my animations, it would have been an utter nightmare to rewrite and I honestly believe that I would have given up the project if I hadnt found a solution. Nvidia cards do not support skinned mesh animation in the fixed function pipeline and although my game doesnt use the FF, one of the function calls I am making from DirectX depends on this feature being available. The short of it is that a work around exists and a small performance increase is also gained :O)

The spec of the machine I am testing on is this -

Pentium 4 (original) 1.7 GHZ (400 FSB) (really slow at doing anything in XP)
512MB ram (DDR)
AGP x4
Basic harddrive, etc.
PNY Nvidia 7600GS 256MB

The game runs between 55 fps (with multiple creatures) to a solid 75-85 fps when just walking around. This is perfect for the game. Also, I have run some tests against a sample on-line to check the speed of the system and the card I am using gets poorer results than a 6600GT in another guys computer, I dont really understand why. I think the machine its running on is actually hindering the cards performance. So if you have a faster CPU you can expect better results than above.

I am now working on getting the demo ready for download on the 4th Feb.

Just to give me an idea of the computers that the demo will be running on, can you guys repost any changes to your machines. Thanks.

[cowsmanaut]

ok that ettin, is it normal mapped?

or is it 100% of it's geometry?

I started on a mummy..

[DSE]

Awesome, I can give you a load of info in a couple of hours when I get home regarding the requirements. Is that ok ?

Off the top of my head I think the "low" poly versions of my creatures are around 1500 polys and the high end are around 5500 (achieved by just removing the mesh smooth modifier in max). The creatures are using skinning and physique in max (if I remember correctly) and they have normal maps for further detail on the rendering for specular and bump.

Each animation (around 10 in total) is around 30-50 frames. The animations are -

turn left
turn right
walk forward
attack 1
attack 2
walk up stairs
walk down stairs
die
idle

I think thats it, I will check later.

Cheers.

[cowsmanaut]

well chances are I'll provide you with 3 versions because I'll likley do more than just mesh smooth to make it work. unless yours only works that way..

[DSE]

my exporter should be able to work with any modifier you can use in max. so we shouldnt have any issues.

removing the mesh smooth was just a very easy way of achieving the low and high poly variants, thats all ... I look forward to seeing your efforts.

[cowsmanaut]

technically I'd prefer to use maya.. since I'm not super used to max.. and I'll be modeling it in maya.. but I know how to use character studio for animation so shouldn't be a problem there.. it's just that the mesh will be made in 3 different versions and skinned to the same biped.. but I gues I can try to make it work for meshsmooth.. just going to be a pain in the butt with his little bits of dangling bandages.. which incidentally I'm going to need to be clever animating.. i suppose I can use one of the finger bones for the one on the arm..

do you just export the animated mesh? or with bones?

[DSE]

you dont need to use mesh smooth, it was just an easy option for me (as I am really bad at modelling in max, the ettin was purchased from the web and it wasnt animated by me). If you want to supply a low and high poly version, thats fine, no problem.

I can export the animated mesh with or without the bones, what are you thinking ?

[cowsmanaut]

Just curious if I try to get some dynamics on the hanging bits of cloth. If it needs to be bones.. that won't work. if it's dynamics you can only do it by baking out the vertex animation.

[cowsmanaut]

also, i may be able to export it with FBX with animation from maya as an animated mesh and then you just export the vertex animation from max.

then i don't need to use max at all

[DSE]

I am not sure totally how this will work. Is there any chance that you can send me a set of examples of the different methods you are thinking of using. I can then test these to make sure they are going to work before you do too much work on the actual mesh ? Just to be sure :O)

[Tom Hatfield]

if it's dynamics you can only do it by baking out the vertex animation.

No way dude. He's using Novodex. Unfortunately, from what he's said, I don't think DSE implemented any physics in his character animation — please confirm — but it's certainly doable. Giving the bones specific names — I'd simply prefix them with nx — would set them apart from regular bones, and DSE could then assign constraints when the mesh is loaded. It's his call, since he knows how his engine works, but it can certainly be done. I don't think Novodex supports cloth — that came later in PhysX — but you can fake something that simple with bones.

[DSE]

The characters are rigged for collision detection in the physics engine. However the physics engine isnt powering the animation of the creatures, I am not doing rag doll stuff with joints and constraints. I looked into it, and it didnt seem to add anything to my particular game and was considerably more complicated to implement than my current method.

The physics engine I am using does allow cloth and I have had flags and a curtain in the game, they were removed due to me having to limit what I am trying to achieve with the game. I may well be interested in resurrecting this if it adds to the overall effect. It would definately look cool for the bandages on a mummy :O)

Everything is doable, but a one man band trying to write it all and making it work on a certain level of hardware ... it all takes time and effort. Also, during my journey of writing this game, one thing is now very apparent to me - writing games that work and actually function as a game rather than a small tech demo is difficult, doing it non commercially is even harder.

[Sophia]

writing games that work and actually function as a game rather than a small tech demo is difficult, doing it non commercially is even harder.

Amen to that!

[DSE]

Performance update ...

I have just tested the game on an nvidia 6200 at a mates house, the
game is playable on this card on the basic settings (30-45 fps). This card is approximately £34 just to give you an idea. I would recommend something a little bit tastier though.

Cowsmanaut - are you able to produce a mummy, or due to the discussion above, will it prove too much hassle ?

Thanks.

[cowsmanaut]

I have a base mesh done, he's not detailed or rigged yet..

[DSE]

excellent, cant wait. It is very generous of you to offer this work. thanks.

[cowsmanaut]

yes, well, we shall see how it works into my schedule first.. it might take a short time, or a long time.. I have good reasons for doing it.. I have hope of using it in relation to my classes.

[DSE]

Ok, I am really hacked off with this forum.

Due to the lack of enthusiasm (postings) for my clone (this is not a request for kisses and cuddles) I dont think the alpha will be released this weekend. I dont see what I will receive in return from posting a demo up, other than a lot of grief from numptys with cr@ppy hardware. As an update to the stage of the game (and Foz can back this up), my clone is very much a working game. I have 4 things left to do to mimick the original DM game, none of them are particularly difficult.

Its just a shame that no one replied to my postings ... sobs and yells in pain ...

Only kidding, its going to be close, but I will see if I can manage it for Sunday.