[Custom dungeon] Conflux III: The Undercity [CSBWin] [Benjamin Prieu (a.k.a Zyx)]

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:47 am

Wow, can I be the first to say CONGRATULATIONS to you and mrs zyxette to be : )

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:56 am

Then let me be the second to congratulate you Zyx!

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:21 pm

Congratulations Zyx: I'm sure the partnership will be a magnificent conflux of two great people into one beautiful soul.

I'm feeling slightly soppy today.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:13 pm

Alright. So count me among Conflux' converts. Yep, the dungeon is great. Hard, very hard even, but not impossible. Frustrating, yet there is always something to do somewhere that's accessible (at least so far) and there is an amazing variety of challenges.

I'm most impressed so far by: the dream.

I'm least impressed by: the characters' inability to drink directly from the fountains. That the first waterskin available has all the volume of a small shot glass just adds insult to injury.

Now, for another bug report. While testing all the rune combinations systematically and inventoring the spells, I found out that the magical footprints spell has a bug: If the casting fails, the color scheme change normally induced temporarily by the spell becomes permanent. Recasting the spell does not help, nor does dying and reloading.

Congratulations again to Zyx on his wedding.

Also I heard there is a conversion being done to RTC. If there is need for help, I would be happy to contribute.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:42 pm

Glad you got to see some ofthe good points to it

Characters ability to drink from the fountain is a limitation of the atari engine - you couldn't do this until amiga/PC

In conflux it becomes another thing to figure out how to find waterskins/flasks for. YEah, Zyx was an evil ******** and placed a cursed waterskin in easy reach - there are other proper ones arojnd, you just need to know where to look (as the readme says, taking he four guides first time can be a good idea and can lead to one skin)

Conversaiton of Conflux to RTC had been talked about merely as a 'what can CSBwin do that RTC can't' discussion- the DSA structure to RTC conversation objects would probably be a huge feat

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:36 pm

I am still wondering how, with all the amazing things that DM could not do and Conflux does (with the same engine apparently) it's still not possible to refill the water gauge when clicking on a fountain. Oh well.

Now, I'm also confused about something else. In the cellar, the 'protected' water fountain has a medusa head when viewed up close but a lion head when viewed from afar. But medusa fountains were par for the course in CSB, and I thought DM and CSB used the same engine. so now I'm confused.

And a little bug report:
Holding a dead torch and walking around in the dwarven mines has explosive results, when it shouldn't.
In the sewers, in the 'water devils' area, the blue creature with the black flames tries to attack the party when it is two squares away, fails, and freezes. Killing it after that is a matter of patience, as it does not attack again.
Still in the sewers, in the part with the strong current, water elementals that go through the grates have a different color scheme when they reach the level below. Is that intended? (I could understand that they are muddy or rusty after passing through that grate, really. I'm just checking.)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:52 pm

CSBwin uses alot of hooks that were never utilised in the , and the power of the DSA is quite impressive.

However, the drink from fountain code does not exist, so was never a priority add.

As mentioned before, a whole lot more graphics can be snuck in by using portrairs to change wall items. So the fountains can be altered to create those cool effects, but yes, there is only really one type of fountain graphic. I assume zyx added the lions head foutnasin as the default graphic and put the CSB version back in as a portrait only

I think the dofferent colours is mentioned in the readme - it's a known DM engine limitation, there are only a certain amount of colours allowed per level. You won't see it in DM and CSB because the monsters are correctfor the dolours used, but if you alter a DM/CSB dungeon you need to put up with the fact that certain monster types exist badly together because their colour schemes do not mesh - blue beholders with water elementals say , etc

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:40 pm

Potential dead-end / starve-to-death trap: The Ettin area on the undead level. It is possible to enter it from upstairs, but the only exit is the portcullis on the eastern side, with a keyhole only on the outside, and no button I could find, as is usually the case in those situations. Unless I overlooked something, one can potentially kill everything in there and be left to starve or commit suicide. I can send the save game file if there is a need.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:59 pm

If Zyx is still about, he may want to help.
And he may be quite fed up with the whole
thing and want to relax.

I can decode the dungeon.dat file and would
be glad to try and help you with this question.
But I don't know the dungeon well enough to
know the exact location from your description.

I wonder if it would be reasonable to provide
a 'clean' map of the dungeon. It would show only
the obviously open spaces. Trick walls, teleporters,
doors, and pits would appear as solid walls. All
objects, monsters, actuators, etc would be removed.
Sort of a 'Skeleton' map.
This would allow us to talk about the dungeon
locations more precisely and would not give too
much away. Not even enough, IMHO.

I certainly would not do this without Zyx's permission.
But I think it would actually make the dungeon
more accessible so that more people would
try it without giving up in total frustration. They
could then start to fill in the maps via exploration
and feel a bit of sense of accomplishment.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:07 pm

There are the maps that I drew for the game that are available when you find a secret, though I guess that rather defeats the objective you're discussing.

By the way, why do you always use hard line breaks after only a few words? Old habits die hard?

Suule · Post by **Suule** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:58 pm

And they're great. + They provide valubale tips for defeating the game. I may start to play Conflux again soon.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:23 pm

why do you always use hard line breaks

For the same reason that newspaper columns aren't the
width of the page. And magazine pages are divided
into columns. And there are capital letters at the
front of sentences and periods and full spaces at
the end of sentences. And a comma where needed.
It makes things easier to read.

The column width should be such that you can read
down the column rather than back and forth. As your
eye reads one line it should be able to see the start
of the next so it does not have to hunt. At least it
works best for me that way.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:57 pm

I realise you're working to optimum readable line lengths. I have to think about this in my role as a web designer and am well aware of what's considered a good readable line length.

The problem with having forced line breaks instead of allowing the browser to wrap long lines, is that it makes printing, copying & pasting a pain. And your posts look very strange when viewing in kiosk mode on a PDA for example,
when lines are even shorter and
a line with a
hard-break in it ends up looking
something
like this.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:45 pm

Perhaps the answer is to make these forums use columns that are narrower than the page. I'd be happy to let the browser do the wrapping. I sorta have two modes of typing and my fingers can do either rather automatically.

I am using Opera and I don't think there is any way for one tab to be a different width that the others. I notice that a lot of professional-looking web-pages use mutiple-column formats. Not that I know ANYTHING whatsoever about what is reasonable or possible when building web-pages. Look at MINE!!!!!!! My fingers must have been in 'no-return' mode.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:39 pm

I know I don't often say this, but: LOL!

Don't stop using line breaks on my account -- I just wanted to share a different perspective. As for changing the forums to be narrower -- I'm not going anywhere near the back-end code of phpBB ever again as it's a terrible chaos of randomness held together with spit and chewing gum.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:16 am

I didn't offer the savegame to have it "fixed", as zyx has offered to others in the past. In fact, he must be rather busy with his wedding and all right now! It was more as a proof of principle that it can be done, if indeed I have not missed the exit, since I remember a post from zyx mentioning that there were no such traps in Conflux. I have since branched out somewhere else from my main save since I have convinced myself that this particular area contains nothing that I cannot live without for now, and I'll spend a key to enter it normally next time.

As far as locating places, if we agree to call the Guild level 'level 1' and number them down in increasing order, and agree that (X,Y,Z) is the square at the intersection of the Xth column and the Yth line on the Zth level, then I'm talking about the area around (10,25,6). With coordinates, no spoilers. The only problem then is the altars that are fairly hard to locate absolutely.

As far as I can tell, the dungeon is accessible enough as it is, and that's coming from someone who won't do CSB anymore because it's too tedious. Conflux is very easy to map, so there is no excuse for getting lost. Plus Gambit's maps are gorgeous so even if you do map, it's worth getting the power words as well.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:53 am

Parallax wrote:As far as locating places, if we agree to call the Guild level 'level 1' and number them down in increasing order, and agree that (X,Y,Z) is the square at the intersection of the Xth column and the Yth line on the Zth level, then I'm talking about the area around (10,25,6). With coordinates, no spoilers. The only problem then is the altars that are fairly hard to locate absolutely.

As far as I can tell, the dungeon is accessible enough as it is, and that's coming from someone who won't do CSB anymore because it's too tedious. Conflux is very easy to map, so there is no excuse for getting lost.

!

Well, I'd agree that individual areas are easy to map, but how they all link up (and therefore what the absolute coordinates of any given location are) is not at all obvious.

To give one example (without giving anything specific away), the bit at the start where you fall down a drain, you're actually being teleported sideways rather than going down a level. i.e. the two locations are on the same level; whilst you could map them both individually, putting them relative to eachother is almost impossible.

The design of the Conflux dungeon is excellent in terms of having distinct areas that can be described using words (actually, the design is just generally excellent too!). I'd recommend using them to describe where you are because giving absolute coordinates are very likely to be wrong.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:33 pm

Exactly: Individual areas are easy to map. How the entrance or any of the altars relate to the dungeon proper is indeed tricky. The main dungeon where 90% of the action happens is just one area however, which means it is trivial mapping it. I should know, I'm doing it. So far I have found two discrepancies (not just omitted bits, actual differences) between Gambit's maps and the actual dungeon, but I'm not close to done.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:55 pm

talking about the area around (10,25,6

That appears to be the southwest corner of
the "CRYPT" level.

I have studied it for quite some time. If you
got into that area without going through the door
then it seems you are stuck. A pushbutton
will teleport you to the "FIRE" level (27 or 28
depending on where you put 1) but you can only
come back to your original location.

I have only studied the 'standard' mechanics
and the very simple DSAs. It is conceivable
that a spell, eating something special, killing
a particular monster, etc could get you out.
But I can find no clue as to what it might be.

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:18 pm

I like the way Paul parses his sentences, namely because I use 1280x1024 resolution. (Could go higher, but it works for me.)

Congrats, Zyx. Your life has just begun.

I played Conflux III for a few minutes some time back and promptly gave up because I didn't really have the time or patience to invest, but I will come back to it someday. I'm the sort of person who never bothered with CSB because it's too frustrating, which I have mentioned before, but I'm also the sort of person who appreciates good technical design.

As a programmer, I'm wholly familiar with the limitations of a dated piece of software. I was among the Doom editing crowd who was awed by what some clever folks did with the engine — invisible floors, transparent doors, the illusion of overlapping sectors, etc. — in other words, stretching the technology to do things that for all intents and purposes should be impossible. So, once I get into Conflux, I'm sure it will impress me. My point is, the gem keyhole "bug" didn't bother me in the least because I already knew the cause of the problem, and I suspect other similar "bugs" won't affect me.

Anyway, more to come. Right now I'm installing the latest DX9SDK (Dec2006) so I can see what the fuss is with DX10, and also because I seriously need to start coding again, and I want to move to VS2005. But that's neither here nor there.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:24 am

I could be wrong in where I think you are, but if I'm right then two words - imaginary walls!

You can always send your save to me (beowuuf at yahoo dot com), as a playtester unless it's wholly new area I should know if you can get out of there or not

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:56 pm

Paul Stevens wrote:A pushbutton
will teleport you to the "FIRE" level (27 or 28
depending on where you put 1)

Gottferdom! I'm not nearly as advanced in the mapping as I thought I was! At least 28 levels eh? Well, that's OK, I'm not in a rush. Thanks for looking into it.

And Beo, Thanks for the offer, but I moved on long ago. I have one save reserved for the guild entrance, so if ever I end up stuck, or down a pit too far, or flooded by monsters (*cough*spiders*cough*) I can always backtrack to the beginning of my latest foray, which is what I ended up doing in this case. And I am positive there is no fake wall that leads out of that area. I bump into every wall, systematically, as part of the mapping process. I might have missed an actuator, especially if it was very well hidden (like the entrance to the moister dungeon on level 1 GRRR!) but not a plain old fake wall.

Anyways, I think from now on I should send my bug reports directly to zyx instead of posting them here.

Post by **Zyx** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:40 am

Friends, thank you for your kind words. I'll try to go to the Inn one of these days, if it´s still full of people.

I read all your bug reports and note them. I don´t have time currently to fix them, but I will.

magical footprints spell: clearly a bug. I´ll check what´s wrong

dead torch exploding in the mines: oops, I forgot this case, it seems.

mud golem near the flood area: strange, I´ll have to check

water elementals with different color scheme: not intended, but found acceptable, so I left it. Beowuuf is right about the technical explanation.

The ettin area in the crypt level: I was aware of this dead end but I thought I already fixed it in a long time ago?? I probably mixed up my files with all the rush...

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:01 am

hi Zyx!
Flashchat is rather empty lately. But that`s YOU who could announce when will you have some time to talk with people and I`m sure they would join you! (I would )

Suule · Post by **Suule** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:42 am

I always hang out on Flashchat when I'm not doing anything important...

Unless we get Cow to implement some kind of "I'm on flash-chat" system, we must join and quit randomly to see if someone's there

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:42 am

Not true. Bookmark, visit and refresh this page to view who's in there:

http://dungeon-master.com/forum/mods/flashChat/info.php

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:50 am

Sweet! Where did that come from?

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:20 pm

It's always been there, I just never bothered reading the docs!

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:13 pm

Parallax wrote:So far I have found two discrepancies (not just omitted bits, actual differences) between Gambit's maps and the actual dungeon, but I'm not close to done.

Could you pm about them? most of the discrepancies are meant and have an explanatin, but maybe I had to modify an area after the maps were finished?

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:39 pm

Is there an award for most deaths? I decided to put my winCE device to use and try csb win with conflux.. I have a rather short bus ride, but all the same it's enough time to try a few things and die apparently..

I've been doing lots of pictures and talking but no playing in the past few years.

I'm so out of practice