Dungeon Master Forum

hi, apologies - had all number of health visitors, midwifes and others! hopefully post IC later tonight once i've caught up

I'm impressed you've been able to string a sentence together at all! You aren't actually getting sleep, are you???

Ah it's been a while since I've updated Haynuus so here goes:

6th level

New Feats:
* (Fighter) Improved Bull Rush - When you perform a bull rush you do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender. You also gain a +4 bonus on the opposed Strength check you make to push back the defender.
* (General) Great Fortitude - +2 bonus on all Fortitude saving throw
(OK, I've ditched Monkey Grip. It sounded cool tbh, but this is not a final fantasy game! The above feats go well with Haynuus' KNUCKLE HEAD persona)

Skill: (+1 to Survival)
Survival: +4

Ohh, two attacks
Melee bonus: +10, +5, can draw a weapon as part of another move action
Range bonus: +6

Fortitude: +6, +10 for hot/cold environmental damage and suffocation
Reflexes: +2
Will: +3

Hit points = (52 + HP for lvl 6 (1d10=2)... What did we say the min would be? 7 or 8?)

Oh, and it's a bank holiday here in Spain TOMORROW. Yes it's a Saturday. Great if you work in Woolworths (i.e. the service industry), not especially for the rest of us 9-5'ers! I'll update the Story thread over the weekend.

Ooh yeah, I've gotta ding myself to six as well. Bleh, means I'll have to root around on the site for that page and see if I can manage to actually give myself all the increases and stuff that I'm supposed to (somehow 3.5 edition seems so much more complicated than 4th edition...then again I don't have any wonderful lovely character builder thingy to help out with 3.5 ). It can wait till tomorrow, though - my brain is in "Friday Evening Mode" atm so isn't quite working at what you might call peak efficiency .

Funny how it's only been the space of one fight since you guys updated last, yet it is indeed ages! (Long series of updates for five game minutes, isn't it!)

@Ian
All your updates look fine. And yes, monkey grip is a fun feat (Why most people choose it, I think) but glad RP wins out! Plus Haynuus seems to get much more mileage out of pushing things around than gaining an extra +2AC bonus anyway!

Remember your additional attack is only useable as a fullround action. Ie you have to plant yourself where you want to make the attack the previous round tio make both attacks. Luckily, you do get your five foot step before, during or after the two attacks, so you aren't completely immobile.

Also, your BAB is used for both melee and ranged attacks. While you don't have the right feats to make two ranged attacks with a bow (you wouldn't be able to draw a second arrow in the same turn), if you had two normal weapons in your hands there's nothing to stop you throwing them both. Or throwing one in one direction, takign a five foot step then making a melee attack Or killing a guy with melee, THEN throwing your weapon towards the next. Or, you know, firing a bow, then throwing the bow!



LB, if you read this, this applies to Aurek too. Sadly Westian and Ameena need to wait until 8th level for the wacky fun of this, and poor Falkor won't get two attacks until 10th level!

@Ameena: Yeah, the character builder makes it easy, but the sheer volume of choice for feats and powers makes levelling up just as time consuming. They've just removed the maths from levelling up, so you just add half your level instead of checking for your increases. Then again, your individual class bonuses to melee and saves are actually mathmatically logical!

Still touching base everyone, worry not!

Just wanted to point out that starting with level six (which is the star of the 'sweet spot' in 3.5 ed mechanics) the plan is to advance you much less rapidly (if everyone is ok with that). So basically you level up per 'boss' battle - ie level 7 once you overcome or defeat the priest!

Everyone happy with this plan?

Also, since you will be stuck with this character in this state for a little bit, and as you should have a cool character that does the cool stuff you want by now, then now is definitely the time to yell if something seems grossly underwhelming.

I think there is a different between say Haynuus with 5 int and a fighter having poor non-combat skills, or Falkor with 7 con and a mage having bad health, and truly bad gaps in a character's skills in things they should be good at. Especially since teamwork can work around those first ones, whereas a character poor at his 'job' always feels bad.

I'm just as open to correcting or at least smoothing out any not fun stuiff even in areas that should be weaker. I'm very open to letting you retool your character (repick skills or feats) now you have a feel for them. And if anyone feels the skill system is a little bit broke(it kinda is) and think a houseruled tweak is in order, let me know.

Similarly, if you spellcasters are unhappy with the direct D&D translation of spell slots instead of using mana for spells (ie a points systme for more lower level spells or squeezing out like two high level spells) now would be the time a good time to yell

Well, I think I sorted my character okay...I still need to decide on my Feat but I'm about to go to bed so it can wait (again) .

beowuuf wrote:Just wanted to point out that starting with level six (which is the star of the 'sweet spot' in 3.5 ed mechanics) the plan is to advance you much less rapidly (if everyone is ok with that).

Hah! We survived that long.

From my vast roleplaying experience... Aghem, one of the best things in all of this are indeed your feets. While I've never seen Ameena perform a backstab she's certainly picked a lock or two! So when Haynuus gets his two attacks in action, I'll be happy enough with him.

The 4ed podcast I listen to is FULL of funky feats and the like - it's almost rare for them to just swing a sword or only cast magic missile

I see nothing lacking for Haynuus, I'd say

4th edition thrives on having lots of attack powers. Feats are simply the 'passive' things some of the 3.5ed stuff are, like bonuses or better dice for attack, skills related things, etc

For the will save Westian got a 19 + 6 = 25.

Wow. That's irritating. I mean, yeah! *waves hands....at infernal dice gods...*

And for my Will save we get...pfft, d'oh, a possible brain explosion as the result is 8 (5+3). Whoopee .

Obviously, now you are getting giant hints at the memory loss and how the party started in the dungeon, I'm wondering if you guys are all 'ooooh' or if you are all 'euuuuuuuh' or if it's just '???'

A mixture of options 1 and 3! I had a theory for a while now ( I told you about it before), and the memories do back that up. But of course that is just the very bare outline, lots of details are missing, therefore there still is some ????!

I guess if money and ian are tied up, we can call it for the weekend - I'm flat out the sunday and monday so might be for the best. Resume next week on Tuesday, see if we can get some stuff resolved and you lot rested by next Friday!

And where's Ameena at?

Been watching Avatar and then playing "Lair" for the evening...sorry but here I am now, at nearly half past midnight to try and dig my murafu out of her current zone of extreme mental torture .

A VI and YA potion might do the trick!

Well, that would deal with the physical symptoms, yeah, but it wouldn't do much for her current mental state .

Yeah, but you guys wanted to talk, you can metagame a little bit of stability or fast forward time a little if needed (after all, Flakor is sleeping right now!)

Well, Westian (or someone) could dump a health potion over her while she's all curled up and mostly conked out - that would probably help somewhat . I suppose her headache might recede a bit after the initial shock has had a chance to subside - maybe then she'll try and ask some more questions or something.

OB and money (and LB of course), you guys still need to level up at some point before intense skill use/fighting break out. I will be infinitely free from Monday onwards to help you

Remember - hit points, save increase, addion to your attack bonuses, new feats, more spells, more skill points. That's the coolness of 6th level!

Ameena wrote:Well, Westian (or someone) could dump a health potion over her while she's all curled up and mostly conked out - that would probably help somewhat .

Don't worry, Westian is going to try to heal everyone while we rest, and the poor murafu will be first on the list!

@beo. Levelled up (I think). I have not decided on a feat yet, either improved turning or persuasive (both skills Westian has used a lot since last level up, so they make sense).

One question, we agreed being subdued meant that you cannot cast a spell. Is Still Spell a feat in this game? i.e. If we tie someone up is there still a chance they can cast? If so I better take that feat myself. If not, I am happy to ignore it.

I rolled for hit points, got a 3. But min is 6...is that the min before or after the con bonus? I gave myself 7 hit points (6 + 1), should it have been 6?

WHAT'S GOING ON???

Well, obviously I'm not goign to tel lyou quite yet. However, I will frame it so you guys can explore it in the background until it becomes relevant again.

Basically, way back I subtly offered you guys a choice of memories - to most I think it should have been one set where you recalled meeting each other, and another set where you didn't.

Anyway, as you might spot now, there are three distinct sets of memories floating around. 1) Memories where, again, you guys don't know each other. And infact would be the state you guys were in @two weeks ago. 2) Your 'current' memories where you guys woke up in a room together, managed to recall your previous meeting and getting to Ananis - but not entering afterwards - and have of course formed new memories of beating this part of the dungeon, and 3) Some odd set of parallel memories where you guys recall meeting up, getting into Anaias, doing heroic stuff, and then... something happeneing but you have no idea what. Also, adventuring with Aurek does not appear to enter into these memories, although adventuring with Sir Farel and encountering Soorec does.

As you may have spotted, while happily entertaining some or all of these memories is acceptable to your brains - with some juggling, confronting the possibility that these mutually explusive positions are both valid and real has some very painful consequences that seems to intrude into the surroundings themselves!

Here's where I think everyone is:

Ameena
Currently seems to be in the mindset of 3), and seems to not even recall 2) in any way. Trying to force her to confront 2) seems to trigger very bad consequences for everyone, her and the dungeon included!

Westian
Currently very firmly holding on to the mindset of 2). Saw 3) as vague flashes he could try and toy with recalling, like a dream.

Haynuus
Actually floating in option 1), though able to connect best to the memories of 2), yet would have flashes of 3). His low intelligence is probably letting him get away with flirting with all the memories, because his brain doens't need to perceive reality as much. After all, he's just waiting for someone to tell him where to go, and then you don't need any introspection to deide how best to hit things

Falkor
Currently floated across to option 3), though flirting with option 2) as if it's a dream he can't quite shake, and anything he encounters in reality that seems more 2) than 3) will probably be swapped over in his mind.


Is that clear, or anything still confusing?


So, what's this mean for your characters (And you as players). Well, first off, as players none of the three memory options contradict who your characters are as designed. While your character can be free to start getting paranoid that all their memories are false, as players know I won't do that gotcha. Your charatcers are your characters, and have no hidden background from you. That would just suck! Well, ok, they have their missing time before waking up in Anaias, but you know what I mean.

Obviously, option 2) has actually happened - you've just played seven months of it,you shoudl know! Your characters might have forgotten or be confused about it, but nothing has or will change in the dungeon. If one of the characters is given some 3) information (like Soorec is captured), reality won't change. As players, you won't suddenly find what you have played invalidated. All your player choices still matter, as the game world has not changed - just your character's perceptions of it!

Obviously, feel free to minimise or maximise how this sudden little shift affects your character. For people like Ameena and Falkor, it's a good chance to do a soft reset. As you may have noticed, Ameena isn'#t running away screaming from violence as much, and as I said to money he can allow Falkor to feel a little buit better about his character again. Ameena hasn't become some combat monster, and I like Falkor's strong independant stream leading to self-contemplation. However, if you feel you've painted yourself into a corner, or that the situations you guys have been in have painted you into a corner, you have a little wiggle room to come at some emotional or charatcer beats a little bit differently for a while

Oh, and obviously, while apparently a dangerous resource, Soorec has already confirmed that Ameena's new memories didn't seem to contradict reality. He obviously assumed she was a 'seer' because what she was sayign was right, even though she had no way to know it. So while it might require a will save, and might threaten your very existence, you can try to push information about encounters or even the plot by some delicate probing of your mind.


Anyway, that seems enough words for now. So very tired, took the day off work because got very little sleep to make up for the very little sleep I've had this week. Time for a big breakfast followed by some mind-morning zzzs!

@Westian:

@beo. Levelled up (I think).

I didn't notice your will was down a point before, so it should be +8 now, +10 versus enchantments.The numbers in brackets should equate to the ranks you have put into them, but some of the bonuses and ranks don't tie up.

Ok, as read, this is how it looks:

Bluff (CC): +5 (3) - six skill points used (bonus correct)
Diplomacy: +13 (5) - five skill points used (bonus should be +11) I assume you used 2 more skill points here?
Concentration: +3 (3) - three skill points used (bonus should be +4)
Heal: +6 (2) - two skill points used (bonus should be +5) I assume you used a skill point here?
Intimidate (CC) : +4 (0) - bonus should be +2, +9 against undead (+3 for level, +2 for charisma, +2 for holy symbol, +2 for 5 ranks in religeon)
Knowledge (religion): +7 (5) - five skill points used (bonus should be +6) A skill point used here?
Knowledge (the planes): +2 (1) - one skill point used
Knowledge (arcana): +2 (1) - one skill point used
Knowledge (history): +2 (1) - one skill point used
Sense Motive (CC): +5 (0) - bonus correct
Perception (CC): +4 (0) - bonus correct
Speak language (common): (4) - no skill points used (inate)
Speak language (elven): (4) - no skill points used (inate)
Speak language (Celestial): (1) - no skill points used (bonus for +1 int)

You should have 27 skill points used in total. Going by the above, you've only used up twenty four. Am I right the last three are assigned somewhere around where I said them?

Edit: Wait, I think I've spotted something from before I meant to mention. In the past where I've said that 5 ranks in bluff give you bonuses to dip and intimidate, or 5 ranks in knowledge religion give you a bonus in turning, I've meant the number in brackets, not your final bonus. So your +5 bluff isn't giving you a bonus to anything else yet I'm afraid! You'd need to put four more skill points (two more ranks) into this cross class skill. And I'm afraid you are capped at 4.5 ranks until level 7 in cross class skills. So you could use three skill points just now to create a 4.5 ranks (+6 bonus), and add a skill point next level where all the nice +2 bonuses would trigger in diplomacy and intimidation.

Sorry, think I spotted this before. While I'm tempted to give Westian bluff as a class skill, I thinkit's truer to the character that he chooses to use politician-style half truths at odds with his callign where he should be straightforward in his dealings

I still have no idea how to stop the 3.5 weirdness with skill point allocation. Well, I have some ideas but the ones I like best require messing about with all your previous scores, which I'm reluctant to do...

I have not decided on a feat yet, either improved turning or persuasive (both skills Westian has used a lot since last level up, so they make sense).

Indeed.

Hmm, if you take improved turning, I'll need to double check where we left the turning rules. I think as converted the turning attempts would use your 0-level spell effects, with extra uses first up to your wisdom bonus. So Improved turning would give two more uses before using your 0-level effects, aswell as a +2 bonus. If the nukber of turning uses per encounter aren't a concern (and I don't think they are, really), then I might allow improved turning to grant a +3 turning bonus instead. That makes it a viable option compared to persuasive's +2 geneal intimidation bonus. If I were you though, I'd take persuasive.

One question, we agreed being subdued meant that you cannot cast a spell. Is Still Spell a feat in this game?

I'll play that by ear, but you only get access to the general feats. Only magic users get access to a meta-magic feat, at level 5, 10, etc. So feel free to take one of the other two feats instead!

I rolled for hit points, got a 3. But min is 6...is that the min before or after the con bonus? I gave myself 7 hit points (6 + 1), should it have been 6?

The minimum is six for the dice roll, so you indeed get to add 7 in total. Along with your AC20, you can still tank it up with the fighters if needed!

I'm interested to see just how much the other players/characters know about what's gone on in the dungeon. Ameena's seen quite a lot (not that she necessarily remembers much/any of it) since her parting with the group, and as a player I know rather a lot about wtf is going on. But I don't know how much everyone else may have found out via PM and stuff. Hopefully once Ameena can describe what she remembers happening, maybe a few more memories will jog into place or something. If Westy can chuck a heal potion at her she'll feel much more like talking because her head won't feel as though it's about to cave in quite so much .

I'm tryign to get everyone upto the same level of knowledge. Obviously Ameena the player and character knows more stuff, the plan is to have you guys (either as players and maybe even as characters) up to that same level in the next few weeks.

Westian has had some hints during his death than hopefully OB might share, though otherwise they will come out in my updates as Westian encounters reminders. And as you cna spot, Haynuus and Falkor now have access to the same general memories that Ameena is heavily invested in. So further updates will probbaly hint at or make clear what this alternate memory set is all about.

Falkor's initial encounter with Gholst and speeches with Soorec now speak for themselves (nothign extra was said that was important)


So yeah, as players you guys are almost all on the same page... just the mystery of Ameena's disappearance to go. And of course getting information for the next area!

Oh, skill points are hard to keep track of. This level I spent points in Knowledge (religion), concentration and heal. I did increase the numbers in brackets. I guess I am missing some from a different levelling up. I have an extra bonus in religion and heal, so I imagine that I forgot to increase those numbers in brackets some time. Also I should have a level in Celestial, so that would make 27 in total?

I used the synergy bonus from bluff based on my modifier, not the number in brackets, so if I remove that are we on track??

Maybe you are right about persuasive, I forgot that turning operated off intimidation ranks!

Thanks for the help!

Ah, ok, then your diplomacy is +11, intimidation is +2. And yeah, your previous heal, concentration and knowledge (religeon) bonuses got raised (well, concentration has just been a mess for some reaon), but the skill ranks didn't. 27 skills points assigned! So you should have heal +6(3), Knowledge religeon +7(6) and concentration +5(4).

Since it was a miscommunication, note you could lower heal, concentration and knolwdge (religeion) by one each (basically as they were before) and add 3 points (1.5 ranks) to bluff. That would leave you free to add a last point to bluff next level, netting you +2 diplomacy and intimidation next time

The celestrial language came from your +1 intelligence bonus, since you are supposed to get languages based on extra intelligence.

Anyway, all seems good now!