What the... Snow in June, then in August!

[Seriously Unserious]

This morning it rained a bit, but now it's getting hot again.

[Chaos-Shaman]

i am not a humidity fan that's for sure. one thing that the humidex does not do is give the actual feel if we get wet, when we get wet the actual feels like temp drops, but their model on how it works does not take that into consideration. i've been freezing on a 25c day when i got wet, but the humidex said it felt like low 30s , the model is not precise, the forecasters just love yelling out how humid it is and they sometimes convince others that that is the temperatures, this is part of the psychology that i've been analysing, people are gullable especially when it comes to weather.

we had a tornado warning today... one thing for sure this year, the weather sucked for growing vegetables! , spring was too cold, summer started off with too much rain and now we have the humidity, tomato plants are starting to turn yellow, 6 weeks early this year

[Ameena]

I think the weather people assume that the majority of people watching the forecast aren't soaking wet .
It's been quite a bit cooler today...well, there was a nice breeze which made it feel cooler, but it's still pretty hot and humid out there .

[Seriously Unserious]

it got quite hot here on Thursday and Friday, and Saturday, but today it cooled down a bit, but it's still sunny.

@Chaos-Shaman: The humidex rating is not meant to measure how you feel when soaked in water, but how you feel when "dry" and getting sticky with sweat that can't evaporate fast enough to carry the heat away from your body. That's why if it's 25 as in your example, and the humidity is at a particular amount, you will get a humidex rating of 30, you will feel like it's 30 degrees because your body's system for getting rid of the hear (sweat) does not work properly when it's too humid for that sweat to evaporate, which is how sweat removes heat from your body. There is a specific mathematical formula for calculating the humidex when you have the current air temperature, and the relative humidity rating. I don't remember the formula atm but could look it up later, when I have the more time.

[Chaos-Shaman]

I think the weather people assume that the majority of people watching the forecast aren't soaking wet .
It's been quite a bit cooler today...well, there was a nice breeze which made it feel cooler, but it's still pretty hot and humid out there .

true, but the days it does rain they do not take it into account, after all, we're suppose to be outside for their forcsts and not in air conditioning

[Chaos-Shaman]

in a perfect world SU, but we all know weather is unpredictable. it also does not take into account wind speed, get enough wind speed and it will blow away the thermal layer surrounding our bodies and null the humidex stats, as I said it is not precise at all. it only works for light breezes and dry weather.

[Seriously Unserious]

True, but that's why there's also the windchill rating, which also has an exact formula to calculate it, based on wind speed and temperature. essentially if there's more windchill then humidex then the windchill rating is what's used, if there's more humidex then windchill then it's windchill that's used. Of course, windchill and humidex occurring together can have one partially cancel out the other, but if you apply both formulas you can subtract the windchill difference from the humidex rating, or do the opposite if you have a humidex parially cancelling out some windchill.

I also find that above a certain temperature even strong winds don't create a windchill effect, but rather act more like a furnace just blowing more heat around.

[Ameena]

Well, after all the horrible heat we've been getting this past week (apparently it got up to 34 degrees here yesterday!), last night there was finally a storm - there were a lot of lightning flashes going on when I went to bed in the early hours of the morning, but no thunder till later, when a huge rumble/crash woke me up. I went back to sleep again soon afterwards but could also hear a downpour of rain occurring at that time. Now it's heading toward 11am and it's still horribly hot and humid (at least here in my room), but there appears to be no breeze outside that I can see, so maybe that storm is working its way back around and will strike again today. Hopefully not while I'm outside to get wet .

[Chaos-Shaman]

so you see my point SU, the real problem, is where one is located, people tend to watch their major cities TV channel, this gives a false temperature reading to the outer smaller towns that are most often cooler than their concrete cement\asphalt counterparts, it is hotter in the city and always will be, again it's a psychological effect I am looking at here since we are a species coined as monkey see, monkey do, most of all of them want to belong with everyone else and it's crazy to be outside that box like myself saying, hey, wait a minute, there is more to the story. most of them know very little about anything other than their mobile devices, now training everyone thank goodness, there should be no dumb asses in the future, a comment my eldest brother just gave me, being close to 70 he had no idea the power people are walking around with. he's still in the dark ages.

now speaking of very strange things I find with our downtown forecast from Environment Canada, the major city Toronto has a lower average temperature than where I live, totally not going with what I just said above. I am still trying to figure out and I continually check this fact why this is, cause I even live closer to Lake On than most Torontonians. it is not correct at all. now when I compare EC with Cable Pulse 24, Toronto's own weather, they constantly show 3 degrees + warmer than EC, which is showing me the 30 year average as being lower and cooler than where I live. this does not make any sense to me. I have sent messages to EC asking, but they're not saying anything.

now, last Saturday, in central On, just east of Lake Superior in the city of Timmins, it was 1.1c almost freezing, now we're talking about the middle of July here, that reading is crazy cold. the reason is the barrier between hot and cold is squeezed, causes more violent storms, hail is more prominent, tornadoes also, so in order to have a nasty storm, there has to be real cold air around somewhere, it can't happen without it. when this pattern sets up, there are more extremes, it does not occur when there is little temperature difference in those years.

we need at least 30 years more satellite study, more like a hundred, and we just don't know enough about our surroundings yet to make any call other than common sense, my message is to all the gullible who believe they need to do something to stop this CO2 disaster is to:

STOP DRIVING YOUR CAR

that's not going to happen, they're ignorant, they want the right thing, but they also want their freedom, tell me now, do you know of anyone one who will give up driving to sustain their ideology on what we need to do to stop this madness of CO2 going into the atmosphere, WITHOUT blaming the oil companies, WHOM DO THEIR SUSTAINING?

[Ameena]

Turns out that massive thundercrash I heard last night was a house at the top of the hill getting struck by lightning! The couple and their two kids inhabiting the house got out safely, but there was fire and stuff apparently, and all the electrical sockets and stuff blew out. Nasty!
In fact, here, I found a link to it...
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_mess ... haos-3709/

[Chaos-Shaman]

Ameena, fippy darling, r u schuore of that, visuals do not represent in this day and age. I do believe your encounter, being able to display your nights activities via photos is amazing, as long as it yours. I found you

[Seriously Unserious]

now speaking of very strange things I find with our downtown forecast from Environment Canada, the major city Toronto has a lower average temperature than where I live, totally not going with what I just said above. I am still trying to figure out and I continually check this fact why this is, cause I even live closer to Lake On than most Torontonians. it is not correct at all. now when I compare EC with Cable Pulse 24, Toronto's own weather, they constantly show 3 degrees + warmer than EC, which is showing me the 30 year average as being lower and cooler than where I live. this does not make any sense to me. I have sent messages to EC asking, but they're not saying anything.

that does seem strange, but temperatures can be very different even over a short distance under certain circumstances. When I lived right in Vancouver, EC would usually take their temp readings at the Airport (YVR) and that's right on the coast, but I lived a bit inland, not by a huge amount, but enough that it would usually be about 1 to 3 degrees warmer in the summer, and up to 3 degrees cooler in the winter where I lived from what it was like at the airport. There are many other reasons why one area can have different weather conditions, even from another area very close to it. It may be that Pulse 24 is getting temp readings from a warm belt, or they could be getting their readings from in the sun, which would distort them upwards as temp readings should be taken in the shade to be valid.

Another example of these sort of localized differences in weather, even from just a short distance away, is in Vancouver, where I used to go to college, Langara College, is in a bit of a dry belt, and gets noticeably less rain/snow then places even just a few blocks away. Where I live now is a wet belt, and I've seen some of the heaviest rainfalls I've experienced in person, yet just a couple of km away it'll be raining only half as hard.

In Meteorology and Climatology, such situations where a small area has such a difference in climate from the surrounding areas is referred to as "microclimates" . Some microclimates can be startling just how different conditions can be over such a short distance and in such a small area.

and here's the biggest, most extreme example of them all, snow and skiiing/snowboarding in Hawaii, that's right hot, tropical Hawaii: http://www.magical-hawaii.com/Things-to ... awaii.html

Playing in the snow in Hawaii

[Seriously Unserious]

Turns out that massive thundercrash I heard last night was a house at the top of the hill getting struck by lightning! The couple and their two kids inhabiting the house got out safely, but there was fire and stuff apparently, and all the electrical sockets and stuff blew out. Nasty!
In fact, here, I found a link to it...
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_mess ... haos-3709/

That is scary. I had a tree struck by lightning about a block or 2 from my house a few years ago and the crack-boom scared the hell out of me. I'm not normally one to be scared of thunder but when it sounds like a bomb blowing up right in front of my house I tend to make and exception...

Good thing nobody was hurt though.

[Ameena]

Not sure what you mean, CS - are you suggesting that a house didn't get struck by lightning near where I live? There were enough people to see/hear it - it must've been at least half a mile away from where I live (I haven't looked for the exact road on the map but I know it's up the top of the hill - the highest point around, funnily enough), but the explosion sound woke me up, as it did everyone else in the house. And probably all the other houses nearby .

[Chaos-Shaman]

that does seem strange, but temperatures can be very different even over a short distance under certain circumstances.

consider this, I have spent many many years checking this out, it's not just out of the blue observance, I spend time checking this stuff out trying to put it together. there is and always have been too much conflicting reports, models, data. I know my region where I live and I know Toronto's as well, I use to live there for 40 years, so I'm speaking with some background experience.

the location of the reading CP24 gives is given in a few areas, they cover the entire city by using street names, their forecast is true if you live where they are, but the forecasters verbally spew out constantly the word GTA which is a huge area and they state one temp most of the time for all of us, I live in GTA as well. so what I am saying is people are just taking that one inaccurate reading for the entire region that has been slated by the weather forecasters so when I talk to others about weather, they give this reading, and believe me the city is almost always +3 degrees or more warmer, which it is if you live in that precise location. so I compare all readings and use all kinds of maps, I study the psychological effects from misinformation on the normal day to day person who gets their info from mouth to mouth. people just love to complain how hot, or sticky or some damn thing, anything really that can be hyped up to some sort of excitement level, it's the way people are. think of it as the same kind of hype used with the royal baby garbage, it's similar to that, all babies are beautiful right.

it's fun chatting with you SU

Hawaii, ahh man would I love to live there... it is my spouses wish to one day, whenever we go on vacation (been 27 years I think since we went on one) that we'd go there, of course I want to go to the Amazon jungle and meet with those shamans, if I live long enough to go.

[Chaos-Shaman]

of course i believe what you're saying Ameena, i am not a firm believer in any photos though. i see lots of edited fudged with photos on the weather network that people send in. since i have spent a few years mucking with photos i can honestly say that it can be next to imposible to tell if photos have been photoshopped and that reminds me, i tested this theory out on my family and parents on a photo i edited, they all could not tell the difference, i fooled them all. it was my first time editing a picture and it still fooled them all.

we've had minimal thunder and lightning where i live this year

[Chaos-Shaman]

there has been record cold going around the past 10 days, just depends where one lives, American southwest has had the anomolous heat as reported from NOAA, but it's not CO2 doing this....
http://news.yahoo.com/video/record-cold ... 49809.html this is way too cold for the middle of summer

it's no good for going to the beach, heh, try growing vegetables in it

[Seriously Unserious]

It's anything but cold on the west coast, and it's certainly not wet out here. No rain in sight, and everything's getting brown and dead outside. It's been hot most days, and most nights too for that matter. Yesterday it got so hot and muggy I couldn't get anything done for college, all I could do is sleep most of the day.

In my Geography class we were covering glaciers last week and my prof specializes in glaciers and glaciation so he had a lot to say about this topic. One of the things he brought up is that based on the current conditions on Earth, and the sun, the Little Ice Age that started in about 1300 and ended about 1800 was supposed to be the beginning of a big ice age, but the temperatures started warming up as we started burning more CO2 producing fuels about 200 years ago. It was mostly coal in the 19th century of course, but by the 20th coal was being rapidly replaced by petroleum based fuels. The result has been that when temperatures should be falling, and glaciers should be advancing, they are instead retreating. I find it very interesting how the reversal of this ice age coincides perfectly with the proliferation of industrialization and the use of fossil fuels.

Although Antarctica may actually start having its glaciers grow as it warms up enough for more snow to fall there.

If you were to survey climatologists, paleoclimatologiests and meteorologists, you would find that between 96-98% would all say that the climate is definitely undergoing an unnaturally rapid change, that coincides with human activities perfectly, which supports that we are the cause of it.

Here's another fact. The tilt of Earth's axis is one of the primary, and cyclic factors in causing ice ages. when the tilt is at the highest it usually reaches (24 degrees) Earth enters an ice age. Earth's tilt is currently at 23.5 degrees. Other factors also coincide with the axial tilt of Earth as well, such as distance from the Sun among other things, and taking these factors into account, we should actually be in the beginnings of an ice age right now. The Little Ice Age of the Middle Ages should not have dissipated at all, it should be intensifying, global ice packs and glaciers should be growing, temperatures should be gradually falling, but instead they are rising, rapidly by geologic standards, and the ice is retreating overall, and we are on our way to an interglacial period (which means lower then normal glaciers) rather then the ice age we should be in the beginning of.

[Chaos-Shaman]

It's anything but cold on the west coast, and it's certainly not wet out here. No rain in sight, and everything's getting brown and dead outside. It's been hot most days, and most nights too for that matter. Yesterday it got so hot and muggy I couldn't get anything done for college, all I could do is sleep most of the day.

it's that crazy polar jet stream, it's really wobbling from north to south way more than usual. if this keeps up it looks like central\eastern Canada will have a nasty winter with lots of snow, who knows, it's unpredictable

temperatures started warming up as we started burning more CO2 producing fuels about 200 years ago.

i would debate that some, we've had some record cold temps, don't forget about climate shifts, they occur on an irregular basis, don't forget the earth just did a pole flip that only happens every half a million years or so, this change in magnetics has an effect, speaking of that, i just read an article on how the sun at this moment which is at its peak in solar cycle and flipping its pole has not behaved as usual, it has formed a very large hole near its north pole, so solar flares don't loop back, they just keep spewing out masses of energy particles, what's odd is that leading up to this 11 year cycle these holes are suppose to reduce in size and number, and increase when midway through to the next flip. the sun is not operating as it normally does or is defying what we know it should do.
now speaking of cold temps, in the last half year, overnight night lows have been very cold, the heat is escaping, which i enjoy cool nights, but in some places they have been close to 0c, way off the mark of where it usually is. there is no CO2 holding in the heat, don't ask me where that greenhouse goes because it isn't here and there is no heat in sight, i might as well right off all my garden this year. i have struggled with too cool of nights and not enough sun in the spring of this year, it sucks.

If you were to survey climatologists, paleoclimatologiests and meteorologists, you would find that between 96-98% would all say that the climate is definitely undergoing an unnaturally rapid change, that coincides with human activities perfectly, which supports that we are the cause of it.

hehehe, just because the buttler was in the room does not make him the killer. the world looks flat but it's not, same goes with the coinciding, i'm not saying we are not producing CO2, but what we do produce is so small that it does not explain what is going on at all. it is easy to simplify and point the finger and be satisfied with the answer if it fits, we humans make that mistake all the time, many people were put to death with that kind of thinking, so think of it as a judgement call, we need to know more about everything, really, 30 years of satelite data is not enough to make any call here. i was taught the aurora that produces the northern lights was caused by sun reflection from the glaciers, I WAS TAUGHT THAT IN SCHOOL, heh, they were obviously wrong but at the time that's all we knew, and this is a good example of how little we know. i also don't believe computer models that no matter how hard they try and add randomness in their models that it is still conducted within parameters which has nothing to do with real life nature, NOTHING. i'd place my bets on the human mind before entrusting a computer to tell me how something as diverse and unpredictable as nature is going to end up in the future. we tend to lean toward the negative and that is easily seen from anyone wanting to grab our attention especially the young who are just trying to think and do the right thing based on their limited knowledge.

now when i ask these questions to usually younger people what they know about the earth, its functions and role in nature, they know nothing, all they know is the reports from TV and and word of mouth that it's our CO2, we're all gonna die in this century if we don't do something, this is coming from people who as they speak have a vehicle, use their phones, do so much polluting yet they don't question it. if it was put into perspective as in a choice, do they want their car and their phone and all the plastic goodies they have, or solving the CO2 problem in which they'll lose these things, you can bet they'll not give them up, it's that simple, they'd prize their own needs over the needs of the environment. just about everything we do is polluting, there is no escape, and as i said earlier that we're just doing what we're suppose to do when it comes to nature, we are naturally fossil fuel burners, we are naturally going to do what we are doing. blame the guy who invented currency over trade i guess, which allowed us to create the things we have today. now the question i ask is

would we go back to simple trade to remove the evil money and its effects from us in order to save the planet?, which in my opinion needs no saving.

as for the tilt of the earth and so on, depending on what reports you read, the average global temp has been going down since the turn of this century, be careful where you get the facts on this, it differs from place to place. some places have warmed up, yup, like our Arctic, and some places have cooled down. we can't include any temps recorded near any cities, they don't count and it's obvious why. we cover less than 1% of the earths surface so we don't need the city temps to figure out a more sane average. you'll find that we have not increased in temps at all, but since we pack ourselves together in buildings and such the psychological assumption derived from man living so close together is that temps are going up.

a question, what caused the little ice age? that's a big question, we can maul over what for a long time. i do not believe we know the statistics as well as we do, and their is a profit to be made with this CO2 is concerned, now we have money in the mix, a dirty thing that corrupts everything, taking what is good in people to keep the world clean, to a corporation and world dominance using fear and misinformation to control.

http://news.yahoo.com/spacecraft-sees-g ... 40642.html

[Seriously Unserious]

just about everything we do is polluting, there is no escape, and as i said earlier that we're just doing what we're suppose to do when it comes to nature, we are naturally fossil fuel burners, we are naturally going to do what we are doing.

I disagree with that statement. it is not natural for us to burn fossil fuels, that's a choice we have made.

would we go back to simple trade to remove the evil money and its effects from us in order to save the planet?, which in my opinion needs no saving.

So you don't believe we're filling it up with poisons? You don't believe we're doing things that are changing the planted and out environment? You don't believe we are causing the extinction of entire species? You don't believe that blowing up every nuclear device on the planet would create a mass extinction event? Tell you what, how about you live in ground zero of the Chernobyl or Fucashima nuclear disaster sites for a year, and it you survive the deadly radiation tell me if you still don't believe any of this. How about you try drinking water full of PCBs and tell me you still don't believe it's poisonous. These things are all deadly poison, and we're filling our environment up with them and telling ourselves we have no other choice except to become cavemen again.

Money is not the problem, it is merely a tool. It can be used for greed, or it can be used for happiness and prosperity. It can be used to facilitate poisoning our home or cleaning it up.

We choose to use devices that poison our planet, we can just as well choose to develop and use devices that do the same things as those that poison our home but are clean and cause no poison.

We choose to burn fossil fuels for our energy, we can choose to develop technologies that require no fossil fuels and instead harness the abundance of energy that's all around us going unused and ignored by our "inside the box" thinkers.

These are all choices we have made, are making, and can change at any time we want. We control what we do, what we do does not control us, unless we choose to let it.

[Seriously Unserious]

Well, I had some beautiful weather in the Okanagan for my holiday last week, and some atrocious weather and heavy rains as well.

In Port Coquitlam, I'm getting some atrocious weather right now. I'm getting a series of severe thunderstorms moving through and they're forecast to continue on into the night. About an hour ago I had lightning striking all around my house and I'm in a bit of a lull between cells right now but there's more on the way.

[Chaos-Shaman]

we've had a low around the GTA of 2c this morning, with two weeks left of summer, it broke low temp records.

as for the above selection of wording, the CHOICE, ahhhh... man is trying to do the right thing overall because it uses choice, yes that is true. man does not choose to kill the earth. what i am saying is do you think man is choosing to destroy the earth, that man does not want to move on, go forward, make it to the next step? OF COURSE man is trying to do that but we're not going to get there without the use of burning fossil fuels, heck no. man wouldn't last very long if we took the correct moral choice every time, put it simple, you could not last very long without mans poor choices such as the use of fuels, burning wood, chopping trees, flushing toilets, using oil for food greases, oils, meds, it is in bloody everything... it goes on. there is nothing wrong with man being upset of what he is doing, that is normal, what is not would be man NOT burning fuels and making meds and foods, making things from wood to me is BAD, cutting a tree hurts my thinking ever so much, i'd rather burn a lump of coal than chop or burn a tree. i'd rather burn gasoline than burn ethanol, a dangerous and NOT evironmental substance, it is better to drink. the land area and pollutants from growing corn is worse, food should go in the mouth, not the gas tank. i guess i am making my choices based on other reasons other than the hate for oil. i don't want to see coastlines filled with windmills, i don't want to see fields of corn being used for a fuel additive, i don't want to see our planet covered in a pile of metal crap that we'll all have to deal with in the future, they all damage the environment. i am making a choice, oil won't last forever, it will not be the end of the earth either and we should all be glad we have it, it took us into the next erra. there would be no cell phones, no plastics, christ we would not have made it to the moon. we need oil STILL, but there will come a time when we'll all stop using the oil in irresponsible ways, like driving cars say for example.. it goes on and on, but to accuse man of wanting to make a choice to destroy the planet, nah, that's not true. we are doing what we have to at the moment, it can't be denied.

i enjoy these talks SU, it gives me the inside thoughts of others, i wasn't convinced but it is ammo for the next encounter.
what i understand from what was said is that everyone on this planet that can make a difference, that is companies, leaders of all types are taking a choice of destroying the planet and that leaders today don't care, if they did, they wouldn't be continuing with its use, yeah, that's what you're saying yeah. even though they know it, they still do it yeah, even you.

please enlighten me as on how we'd tell the world to go about their business as usual without the use of oil, i mean i know i've done more than my share of care, hey, i am a shaman, if there is anyone on the planet that wants a beautiful blue marble in their pocket, it would be they.

i can't wait to see those pictures you took on your trip. one question though, how did you travel over those beautiful mountains? was it by choice, did you make the right choice?

i just love these chats SU, i appreciate it very much.

[Seriously Unserious]

please enlighten me as on how we'd tell the world to go about their business as usual without the use of oil, i mean i know i've done more than my share of care, hey, i am a shaman, if there is anyone on the planet that wants a beautiful blue marble in their pocket, it would be they.

I could tell you but I'm really not the expert in this field, the best expert in the area of freely available energy is Tom Bearden and his videos starting withthis video.

[Chaos-Shaman]

hehehe, i love it. right off the bat i can say that most people are right, there is nothing that is free, except being born.

air is not free, we pay for it one way or another, sunlight is not free, we need to build the devices to harness it, we need the chemicals to proctect us from it, we need water to stop the sun from drying out our gardens, that's not free, we need to sterilize it, that's not free, we need to pump it, that's not free, NOTHING IS FREE, hehehe, i love this one SU. i've had this conversation with my kids for more than 20 years, we'd argue and discuss it at the dinner table. there was not one thing that they could come up with that was free, except being born, they had no CHOICE.

back to the video

well, with hydroelectric, it's not free, need to make the wheel (trees) in old times, need to damn the water, wood again, concrete today. nothing is free excpet being born. with windmills it is not free, have to make that from wood too, have to own the land, pay the tax on it, there is no way any of those are free.

he's kinda borning SU, still watching

bare with me on this, one of my experiences in the ethereal world was pure energy, in my view i had a chance to vision what it is like. when i came back to to what we call reality, i came back enlightened, i was never so fascinated ever in my life. seeing pure energy, whether that be here or in another reality is one thing you'll never forget. i achieved this vision with years of investigation into how do i get to these other dimensions. i do not joke about this, i wanted to know more, i got it. ony those who dare enough to free their minds will be able to reach this place, i can honestly say, it is something like the matrix, like Neo knew that everything is an illusion and it was his job to make it real enough for others to believe it, hehehe, i kid you not SU. it was my final step to understanding and becoming a shaman. ok, let's move on to this so called free energy.

he states that our devicess are flawed, well that all depends, in this case, we don't want to make anything that is free in a sense for those who make a living selling the energy. free energy means no profit if we use his equation, the wheels would not turn if there was no profit. one thing that must be is, there has to be poor to have the rich. if we were all middlemen there would be a stop in creation, production would halt and we'd be back to being an ape, if that's where we came from. this is a philisophical point, is it man, state, nature or god who is in control?

energy is there, yes, energy is everywhere, it's how we capture it, store it and use it that is the problem. we'll always need a device to use the energy, those devices have to be manufactured, it takes heat to produce plastics and metals, it takes heat to produce the batteries that are needed to store and use the energy that is so called free, and i do not see that as being free at all. and as we know already, the cost of using the so called free energy and its cleanup. we have to run wires to our houses to use this free energy, we need regulators to check to see if this energy is working and is not being stolen. i mean there is no such thing in anything that is free, except being born. this topic might be better off split from this one, we can probably go on forever on this topic.... back to the video

he states, "we should be powering our automobiles" so the problem with that is, we have to make them first, that takes energy, it also pollutes. there is no escape from polluting when smelting and forging metals, think of the population growth alone will offset any measurement of conservation. in this case there is two solutions that will occur eventually that we can do nothing about, one is that the demand will outdo the supply of energy, this is already happening, or some catastrophe like disease, or great famine from the suns changes, even a big rock will fix all that, it'll make the efforts we're doing worth shit, and this will happen. i see disease being the first one to hit man. maybe even man made, who knows. those issues are far more important than the clean free energy we seek. right now, we're using some profits to explore, to figure out new ways and methods, but if we take out the mechanisms that make others strive to want more money, which then comes power and control, it'll shut the system down, which is why the hippy movement in the 60's was squashed by government, this could be compared to the Romans trying to rid the one God. they saw it as a threat. in plain terms, complacency is non productive, so that means free energy does not interest many, there's nothing more in it. this is a fundamental princible to nature, it actually goes along with the laws of attraction, what makes one choose what is more benificial

yes, this round makes me giggle... in my terms, a law isn't a law unless it can be bent or broken otherwise, SU, did you check out the story in the movie Matrix, dig deep down in the minds who wrote the story. this guy is trying to be the architect in reference to the movie. we'll be burning dark matter before you know it

ahhh ha, he admits that there has to be a value, and a value is not free... ahhhhhhh i'm not going to work for nothing that's for sure

he talks about EM electromagnetic effects that he states we know little about, hehehehahahah, now we're getting somewhere. what is wierd about that is those effects can be detected when one reaches a certain state of mind. treat mind and matter as the same, it takes a certain state of mind to understand the matter and vise versa. in some weird way it is matter can't be created or destroyed, or destroyed and created, it just is, a definition by some to be God. just a i can be e and e can be i.....

this guy is withering as i watch him SU, more like a scientific bible book with izekiel as the wunderwheel of creation.

more to come

[oh_brother]

Sounds a bit like Tom Bearden wants to break the first law of thermodynamics...

As for the question of how to get by without the use of oil, it does not seem possible at the moment without a lot of pain. Probably oil and other fossil fuels will remain (at least in the short term), with nuclear, biomass and/or renewables gradually taking over as the technologies become cheaper or oil becomes more expensive. But just because oil is vital at the moment, that does not mean that we should not do what we can to find alternatives, or ignore any problems that oil may be causing.

[Chaos-Shaman]

yeah, true enough brother, and we've gone through that one already, i made the point that even though almost all of us know the hazards, we continue to do what we do anyway. everyone has the good intention but does not follow through. i've done my share personally, and i want to burn fuel when i need to. you see, many of those who believe in CO2 is our end still jump on a plane south come winter, i don't, yet these guys come back and then just jump on the fear wagon once more, and go back to their polluting ways thinking they can buy a green item and have a clean conscience, i see it all the time.

[Chaos-Shaman]

http://news.yahoo.com/long-invisible-re ... 04355.html

well, this group of scientists are letting the CO2 out of the bag, they admit we know little about volcanoes and its gas emissions, of course most are under water and we don't know when they are going off or not. we need to study so much more before we make a 95% assumption that it's all mans fault, poppycock. we need at least 100 if not 1000 years of study and satellite data, not 30 years at best data, sheer nonsense and is not scientific to not study all the possiblities before making the Al Gore assumptions. we think we know, but a true scientist knows the more they know, the more they don't know. earth has been falling in temps for 17 years, how many more years is needed before we as a sane bunch will finally speak up and say, "hey, we're still getting cooler"

yes the Arctic is melting, we all know that, but it's melting from beneath and by black soot on top and not so much from CO2 heating it up.

fact, this year the Arctic has gained more sea ice than any time previously recorded so far.

[Chaos-Shaman]

i found this quite interesting, AGW Picassos, manipulation sleight

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013 ... ent-290877

do we trsut what we sea? amzing what the eya can do to fool us.

[Chaos-Shaman]

http://news.yahoo.com/greenland-ice-she ... 13201.html

ahhh, some scientists are finally coming out, not afraid to go against popular belief. it is too easy to fall prey to the masses. we need to spend a long time looking at what are the causes to climate swings, we shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. more time is needed.

[terkio]

From Yale University: http://environment.yale.edu/climate-com ... te-change/



From Australia: Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article